Wide whites...radial or not??

[airbrushguy]

I'm restoring a '39 Buick Century and am soon about to order tires for it. When completed, I would like to use it quite a bit...maybe long tripe even.

I'd like to put radial wide whites on it, around 4" whitewall, however I can't seem to find radials(15") that are that wide. I have other cars with Diamondback radials so I know I like their tires. I can get the right size whitewall if I go with bias-ply....I had a set on a '59 T-bird and they were all over the road.

Appearance is as important as performance and I don't want the wrong size whitewall on the car.

Does anyone have solid experience on radial pros and cons on these cars?

[Guest BigDogDaddy]

I have a 1940 Limited with bias plys on it. I drive the car quite a bit. This past summer I put about 700 miles on it when I went up to the BCA meet in Danvers, and then down to Cape Cod. I've put about 20,000 miles on these tires since I've owned the car. They track fine, not much wandering. They ride nice too. I don't see the need for radials on my car. I guess it has to do with the quality of the tires, and the suspension too.

Phil

[Guest Grant Magrath]

If your suspension and steering is all in good order, bias plys are fine.

Remember, radials have more flex in the sidewalls, and aren't really made to go on these old cars. There are, however, some people who swear by radials. But I'm in the bias ply camp!

Cheers

Grant

[airbrushguy]

Despite my loyalty to this forum, I must admit that I did succumb to "modernizing" my suspension with rack/pinion, disc front-end and coil-over rear suspension. But, that being said, I still have the car at stock height and outward appearance and don't like the way these cars look with smaller than 3 3/4 - 4" whitewalls. I'm leaning toward bias because I can't find 4" radial whites.

I'm going to make it be my vacation/travel car so ride and tracking at 60MPH are important.

Thanks

[Guest Grant Magrath]

Corvettes had bias ply tires with your setup, and they went ok, so I imagine if your wheels are balanced, you shouldn't have any issues with them. There's a video on youtube where a guy gets a set of white stripe radial tires and uses an air grinder to remove the black layer of rubber to expose the white underneath so he has whitewalls. Quite interesting.

Cheers

Grant

[airbrushguy]

Corvettes had bias ply tires with your setup, and they went ok, so I imagine if your wheels are balanced, you shouldn't have any issues with them. There's a video on youtube where a guy gets a set of white stripe radial tires and uses an air grinder to remove the black layer of rubber to expose the white underneath so he has whitewalls. Quite interesting.

Cheers

Grant

Good point!

Maybe the tires on the T-bird were just bad tires. Actually, when I think of it...I bought them at a swap meet USED. Maybe there was more to them than they appeared. They looked good, rode horribly.

Thanks

[Bob Engle]

Radials are almost always a lower profile tire and frequently wider than the conventional bias ply tires. The added width can cause tire rub on at full lock on many cars. The lower profile limits the width of the white wall as well the appearance of the car. Original wheels are frequently not sealed for tubeless tires. Radials with Tubes can be a problem that causes tube blow outs.

I have a 60 Buick that had wide white radials on it when I bought it. The rubber was ground back to expose more of the white wall. The edge where the rubber is ground back is discolored from the black vulcanized over the white.

Coker advertises wide white radials in radial aspect ratios. I don't know anyone that has used them.

Bob

[superbuick]

My 1950's and 1960's Buick's drive horrible with bias ply's. I like to drive and enjoy the scenery. You cant be looking around when the tires are looking for the next groove to grab. I have driven others member's cars the say there car drive well, I don't agree, I think they haven't experienced radials on their car yet.

I know some members have had issues with wire spoke wheel failure because of radial flex. I have found radial issues can be overcome with the quality of tire you are getting. I have bought may sets from Diamondback classics. It is nice you can order your type and size of tire, size of white wall and the are made to you spec at no extra charge as compared the the other guy. They balance up well and the sidewalls stay white.

I have bias on my 41 Limited and it drives pretty well, I think the extra weight and long wheel base helps. I put radials on my 38 special coupe and it now drives wonderful.

So I like radials over bias on most cars. But each case is different.

I sure wish the BCA would recognize radials as a safety upgrade as they do for turn signals and seat belts. As my restored 66 Skylark GS convertible drives so much safer and better with radials, but needs and extra set of tires and rims for show.

- Steve

[qbansmokr]

I purchased the Coker Classic radials for my '41 56C almost 2 years ago and I am extremely satisfied. Mine are 6.50R16 with 3 1/4" WW. The only issue that I had were small metallic inspection tags affixed to the inside of the tires. I did not realize they were even there and after about 100 miles I got my first flat. The tag had worn the tube and developed a leak. I had to un-mount the rest of the tires and scrape the tags off the interior of the tires. I got no satisfaction from Coker when I asked for some kind of compensation.

I was concerned that these tires would not "look right" meaning period correct for the car but I defy anyone to tell the difference between these radials and bias plys from 5 feet away.

I would still highly recommend these tires, just make sure the insides are completely clean before mounting. I have put about 600 miles on the tires and they still look brand new.

[airbrushguy]

I get it, various cars, various usage, various opinions. I just want the opportunity to make the choice.

Radials with 3 1/4' whitewalls...not what I want. Radials with tubes...not what I want.

I'll have brand new wheels that can handle tubeless tires along with new suspension. I guess my only choice for a 4" whitewall is a bias ply.

I just saw the movie "the Artist" and the wide-whites were fantastic.

Someone told me Diamondback Tires will make wider whites if you ask for them. I'll give it a try.

[Guest Grant Magrath]

There's a Whitewall paint if you wanted to do your own. Made in Iceland of all places! Try Google and see what you get. Supposed to be ok. I don't know myself.

Cheers

Grant

[Guest BigDogDaddy]

how about Porta Walls ?

[Guest Grant Magrath]

Like these flappers on my old Chevy? I heard that radials needed quite high pressure if you were using them.

Cheers

Grant

[v12lincoln]

It depends on the roads you drive on, I put them on my old cars because California does not spend any money improving their roads. I have drove on dirt roads in Oklahoma that are much better than our freeways and they trow my car all over which makes it a chore to drive. You will find it eaiser to turn and better ride,handling and braking but if safety is of no concern to you go with the old bias ply.

[Paul Dobbin]

Diamondback radials in a 75 Series are great for touring. I'm on my second set on my Buick. That's important to remember, longevity!

Radials last 5-6 years, Bias ply 10-12 years or longer.

[airbrushguy]

Diamondback radials in a 75 Series are great for touring. I'm on my second set on my Buick. That's important to remember, longevity!

Radials last 5-6 years, Bias ply 10-12 years or longer.

Paul, what size are the tires on that Silver '35 Sedan?

And when you speak of longevity are you saying that mileage-wise they're worn out in 5-6 years?

[Buicknutty]

I'm curious about the longevity comment. I've run radials on my '56 Roadmaster for about 30 years, and find that I get 10-12 years per set, and the tread wear is still within spec, but the tires are getting a lot of cracking in the sidewalls, or belts shifting, so off they go.

What has your experience been?

Keith

[Guest RonJar]

Not wanting to hijack the thread but it is on topic, if I replace my 7.00x15 bias ply and tube tires with modern radials, say 225-75-15, do I still have to run a tube or can I go tubeless?

It's on a 38 Century if it makes a difference.

RonJ

[Guest Grant Magrath]

Tubes in tubeless tires can be a bit dangerous from what I can recall.

Cheers

Grant

[FLYER15015]

Airbrush,

I just checked my '40 LTD and found;

Martin B-16's all round

Martin Custom Tire Co. N.Y.

5 ply Nylon (bias)

size is 7.00-16

whitewall is 4 5/8" from the rim to the whitewall edge w/ a 1/2" raised outer band.

Now that I have tightened up the sector and drag link and installed 4 new tie rod ends, she steers very steady @ 65 mph w/ very little play in the wheel. Of course Colorado has some very nice roads, compared to where I came from (Iowa).

Mike in Colorado

PS; Oh crud..... I just discovered that the Martin Custom Tire Co. of new York, filed for bankruptcy in february of 1938. Can my tires be that old ? And I'm driving 65 mph on them.......... Whatever will I do now ?????

Edited February 27, 2012 by FLYER15015
new info (see edit history)

[Terry Stock]

For RonJ

We went Bridgestone light truck 650x16 (black wall), 8 Ply in 2003.

Tubes were installed. But a couple of years ago we had a flat and it was a tube failure. The tire was put back on tubeless and OK so far.

Get your tire man's advice, but if your wheels are clean and provide a good seal, tubeless is probably the way to go.

Sorry you other guys who have heard this before.

[Guest Grant Magrath]

Haha!!

Is that for real Mike? I thought we were bad with 32 year old Firestone whitewalls on the 35 Dodge! Made in NZ and everything.

Cheers

Grant

[Bob Engle]

If running radials, I definitely prefer to NOT use tubes. With the wall flex rubbing against the tube, and the ribbing usually found inside a radial, tube blowout is a real possibility. This, in my opinion, negates the reason for running radials to begin with which is safety. The issue on whether you can run tubeless in old wheels is " are they sealed to hold air?" I remember the switch to tubeless in the 50's. Some wheels worked others did not. We coated the inner wheel seams with seam sealer to fix those that leaked.

We also sanded the valve stem holes to improve the seal of the tubeless stems. All conversions were checked in the water tank to look for leaks.

Radials are definitely not good for wire wheels. Too much side flexing on the spokes.

Bob

[egor]

My '38 has had radials without tubes, on the stock rims, for years. There's no reason to run tubes in tubeless tires, and as described above, lots of reasons not to. I'd like to switch to those cool Goodyear bias-ply repros, but having to deal with tubes again is a deal-breaker.

[FLYER15015]

Haha!!

Is that for real Mike? I thought we were bad with 32 year old Firestone whitewalls on the 35 Dodge! Made in NZ and everything.

Cheers

Grant

HA Ha yourself.........

Here is the part I don't understand (as the mystery deepens)............

According to the "numbers guys", my '40 LTD was built in Flint, Mich. during the second week of September 1939 (has '39 looking boot hinges and door handles and the body # is 15, (out of ???).

Martin Custom Tire Co. filed for chapter 11 in Feb of '38 per the New York legal records. I saw the file in which somebody was trying to get their rubber mixer back or get paid for it.

Bigdogdaddy says Martin was around in the '50's and selling "top line" tyres.

Notice my new "correct" spelling.

So....... The question is..... How can early '38 tires go on a Sept '39 built Buick ? Did they have that much "stock" @ Flint ? AND, are mine really that old ????

Anybody is welcome to solve this conundrum.........

Mike in colorado

:confused::confused::confused:

[Guest Grant Magrath]

Discussions like this pop up from time to time on the Corvette Forum. The whole numbers matching, correct date code thing. My theory is that they may have been dealer fitted? I'm still amazed that your tyres are possibly in their 70's!

Cheers

Grant

[Paul Dobbin]

RE: Longevity of tires.

I'm talking time, not miles. Radial tires are made to last 5 years before they start to have the rubber dry out around the cord and begin to separate, causing self destruction. Bias plys also dry out but are not held together with the strong radial cords, they age better and longer.

My 35 Buick is at the end of it's 12 year since I finished it and also the end of the second set of name brand radials (235x70x15) with Diamondback wide whites. They look like new until they blow out. (I had one glow in the garage at 6+ years and one radial spare on the back of a vehicle blowout in the driveway while just sitting there. I just don't want that to happen on the road.

My 34 Ford (Glidden Car) has 8 year old bias ply's the are getting to the tread wear marks and it's time to replace them too (About 15,000 miles)

I have seven cars and a motor home on the road and it's my experience that radials kept outside in the sun last 5 years, while parked in the garage last

6+ years. That's my Florida experience and have noticed others has the same results. The more I read, the more i find the tire companies agree with me.

I've had them blow at speed and the resulting damage is never worth the extra time I get out of unsafe tires.

The third photo attached is a Coker radial tire on a 56 T-Bird at 8 years old.

The owner was shocked because it looked like new until it blew up. He drives his cars too, so he was real lucky there was no one around him on I-75 when

it quit dancing a blew up.

I suppose if you only drive 35 MPH to shows and back, the extra miles might be worth stetching them out, but I enjoy the cars and what they can do.

Safety first, second and third.

[FLYER15015]

Discussions like this pop up from time to time on the Corvette Forum. The whole numbers matching, correct date code thing. My theory is that they may have been dealer fitted? I'm still amazed that your tyres are possibly in their 70's!

Cheers

Grant

Grant'

That's all well and good, but you didn't comment on my spelling or terminology.

And the question remains, do we have a time travelling set of tires ?????

Mike in Colorado

PS to Paul; Paul, you are in florida @ sea level. I'm in Colorado @ 8500+ ft. or over a mile and a half closer to the sun. My motorhome sits out and w/ the UV rays we get up here, she wears full length wheel covers, (except when driving of course).