Guest OLBUICKS Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) My 38 straight cranks some what slow all the time, and after I drive for awhile I try to restart it, it cranks very very slow, infact will not start until enging cools off, the enging runs good, good oil pressure. It acts like a starter that drags after the engine runs to temp, I took my starter to a rebuild shop today to get it rebuilt, "this guy has rebuilt alt. generators, and starters all his life" put it on his machine and it's pulling 130 amp, which is good. Last year I bought a 8 volt battey and put in the car, cranked great, but I could not get the car to charge with the 8 volt battery, so I bought a heavy duty 6 volt battery at NAPA and installed in back into the car.. same problem.. New battery cables, Any Ideas? Edited January 24, 2012 by OLBUICKS (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 What type of new battery cables did you use? 6 volt cables are heavier than those sold for use with modern 12 volt cars. Lots of people have installed generic modern cables and found out that they are too small to carry the current necessary to turn over a 6 volt starter. Making sure that all ground connections are good and clean is also a common necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Matt has the right idea, I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that you bought skinny cables made for 12 volt.....it makes all the difference....hope that's what it is, a simple fix, good luck.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brh Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Also the length of any replacement cables is important too. Found that out the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937-44 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Another suggestion would be double check the ground. Some of the starters had a ground wire attached directly from the frame to the starter. Some of the replacements didn't thread the starter for the ground wire, in which case you could always add one and see if it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Clean the generator commutator and brushes with some contact cleaner as well as checking the grounds as above.CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 A faw suggestions:1. Battery cables: Find a battery wholesaler who also does some retail, and who can make you up some proper cables using your old ones as a length guide. I use 00 (that is, "double-ought") welding cable which is very flexible. Solder the terminals on.2. Despite what the wiring diagram may show, run the battery's **ground** cable to a starter mounting bolt. Clean all the pretty paint off that starter mounting ear, and from the part of the bell housing to which it attaches. (The idea is to remove the insulation that the paint provides. After the job is done, you can add di-electric ignition grease as a "sealer" coating around the connection to help maintain the integrity of the connection.3. Grounds are the first thing I check in any electrical malfunction on a 6V vehicle. The grounds must be "refreshed" every three years or so in high-current-draw applications like a starter. 4. For your headlights, consider that when the car has a generator rather than an alternator, at idle with the headlights on, you're running at a deficit--that is, the operating systems including headlights are drawing more current than the generator produces, and that's normal to a degree. You can check the individual headlight grounds by making a 10- or 12-gauge jumper wire with alligator clips on the ends and then connect the grounding surface in the socket (for non-sealed beams) to frame or other excellent ground. If the light brightens, then you need to refresh those grounds. You can also use an ohmmeter and should get less than 1 ohm for **lights.**Hope this helps. Keep that 6V system. It worked just fine in its day and can again, but 6V systems need substantially more maintenance on their ground connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 What type of new battery cables did you use? 6 volt cables are heavier than those sold for use with modern 12 volt cars. Lots of people have installed generic modern cables and found out that they are too small to carry the current necessary to turn over a 6 volt starter. Making sure that all ground connections are good and clean is also a common necessity.Ditto.........Went through the same thing on a Dodge years ago. Tried to fire it up with jumper cables hooked to a 6 V battery.Bob's or one of the parts houses have 6V cables, if long enough. 6V is as big , if not bigger then your thumb-Good luck, you'll get er. OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Olbuicks,I agree with Grimy and OCM re; the ground. When I first got my "40 I limped home (140 miles) with what I bought.I immediately had to buy a battery (6 volt Interstate) and I replaced both + and - with Double "O" welding cable. Pure copper w/ soldered connections of good brass terminal ends for the Batt side and copper ends for the eng side. To my wonder, I found out the origional (?) braded copper ground strap said Duesenberg on the underside. It now hangs proudly in the shop. Clean both eng side connecting points w/ 60 grit emery, and paint over if you want.So far w/ a year of driving, no problems.Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unimogjohn Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Just a note. Rhode Island Wiring sells the correct cloth covered cables with the correct period ends. You just need to tell them the length and end the type of connector you want to use. Top quality at a reasonable cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 And if all these wiring suggestions don't cure the problem it's probably in the starter bearings and/or brushes. May be time for a trip for it to the auto electric shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OLBUICKS Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Thanks for all the replys. The pos cable is large, the neg cable is not quite as large, I will replace both of them with the suggestions I have read here, as for the generator the same guy I took the starter to today rebuilt the generator lat year, and it puts out 7+ volts. I do not drive the car after dark, so there is no drain at idle as far as that goes with head lights, I will keep in touch with the problem after I get new battery cables.. Thanks for all your reply's. This is my first dealing with straight 8 engines, and thought it was a slow cranker like old Dodges with early hemi's. Also, I'm thinking I may have a bad new battery. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 OlbuicksI have a hunch Jim is right. You will need to pull the armature out of the starter to see if it's dragging (due to bearings and heat). This would also be a good time to check the brushes and see if their springs are in good shape and the commutator isn't full of crud. The slots can be cleaned up a bit w/ a fine hacksaw blade. The "old"way. If you see stuff you don't like, it might be time for a rebuild.Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OLBUICKS Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think I will take it back to the shop to go ahead and clean it out, put in new brushes and bearings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I suggest OO gauge battery cables. Some recommend 0 gauge, but 00 is even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I still say check the generator as well, as the OP said the car wouldn't charge with the 8v battery.CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest outlaw car man Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I still say check the generator as well, as the OP said the car wouldn't charge with the 8v battery.CheersGrantWas thinking, when I had a 1933 Essex Terraplane 8, it had a 8V battery put in. The guy at the auto electric shop, set the generator brushes forward or something to adjust for the 8volt charging rate. I've heard Ford guys do something like this too. Kinda stabbing here, but if the large cables don't do the trick, this may have something to do with it. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph P. Indusi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If the battery (the original 6 volt variety) is up to the task, the cables are of the suitable gauge (at least "0"), all connections are bright and clean then the 6 volt system is perfectly adequate. If the starter bearings/bushings are worn or there is another starter issue then that can be corrected. I just don't see the need to convert to 8 or 12 volts.Joe, BCA 33493 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I agree Joe. 6v with everything working is up to the job! But is the car any better with a freshly charged battery? That would point to the generator needing a clean. (or the regulator adjusting) The original post mentions batteries not charging, which of course would lead to slow cranking. The state of the leads could be a factor, but if the battery ain't charging, I'd address that first!CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OLBUICKS Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Charges good, even at full charge, same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Charges good, even at full charge, same thingFrom the battery charger? Or showing on the amps gauge while driving? Just trying to rule out the generator.CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I like to use STAR washers at my grounding points, they embed themselves thus helping make good contact, IMO. I like EXTERNAL washers, more points to bite in and grip. Dale in Indy, HOME OF THE SUPER BOWL. OUR DOWNTOWN IS A BEAUTIFUL PLACE, WE EXPECT GREAT FAN REVIEWS. EVERYTHING IS WITHIN A FEW BLOCKS, AND MANY COVERED PATH WAYS. Edited January 27, 2012 by smithbrother (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OLBUICKS Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Generator is always putting out a good charge while driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grant Magrath Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Cool!So now we can rule out generator/regulator issues. Time to focus on the battery cables and starter. For the record, our 38 did the same thing. It got so bad that you couldn't put gas in without it needing a jump start. But the longer you left it, the easier it would start. Tighting the battery negative terminal up helped bigtime. But my 39 Chevy had a similar issue, which, through the lack of charge on the ammeter, we traced to the gen.CheersGrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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