Researching a VIN in PA?

[MikeC5]

I did search through some threads on key word 'research' but couldn't find anything specific. I have a 1925 Dodge Brothers and all I have to go on are the VIN and a windshield decal form state of PA Inspection (inspection station 6832) from 1947. Is it possible to get any cooperation from PA motor vehicle dept to search on VIN ? Would anyone out there have information on the whereabouts of inspection station 6832 in that time period?

[franklinman]

I don't know if PENNDOT would have any records of old inspection stations, but I can tell you from personal experience that they will not share any information with "civilians" about prior owners. I've been given at least two different stories when trying to research prior ownership on cars. The first is that the online records only go back a few years (I've also been told off the record that when the files were computerized everything more than 10 years old was destroyed, but I can't get that confirmed officially). The second line I've gotten was that they could only divulge that information to law enforcement, and/or by a court order. It's been many years since I lost my "inside" connection to PENNDOT, and I don't know what they might tell you if you asked today. It's certainly worth a try. My personal experience with PENNDOT has been that they are not all that sympathetic to old cars. Good luck. If you find out anything, please post an update of how you did it as I'm sure there others that would be interested.

[MikeC5]

Thanks Franklin,

I had this forlorn hope that PA, of all states, would have some sympathy for such inquiries, being the home of AACA and Hershey and all. BUt I will give it a try and report back. I would be happy just knowing the cities previous owners lived in and dates the car was registered. If no names and addresses are given out then where's the harm in that? They could even charge a research fee and make some money doing it....

Merry Christmas AACA-ers!

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Thanks Franklin,

I had this forlorn hope that PA, of all states, would have some sympathy for such inquiries, being the home of AACA and Hershey and all. BUt I will give it a try and report back. I would be happy just knowing the cities previous owners lived in and dates the car was registered. If no names and addresses are given out then where's the harm in that? They could even charge a research fee and make some money doing it....

Merry Christmas AACA-ers!

It all has to do with protecting individuals from potential thefts and burglaries . I don't think you, or anyone, would want any DMV giving out your name and address to total strangers regardless of expressed intent on the part of the requesting individual or regardless of how long it may have been since a given vehicle title was transferred to another and to whom it had been transferred.

[MikeC5]

Yes, I do understand that would be asking for trouble. But I see no harm in reporting the city and dates/duration of registration.

[JZRIV]

As mentioned extracting data from any DMV in the US has become all but impossible unless you have a close contact on the inside.

I was told by a friend that lives in CA a stalker obtained an address for a movie star from the DMV many many years ago when they did provide information and it resulted in a murder. Soon after the laws changed in CA and other states followed suit. I traced a 67 car back in the early 90s through 3 states and got copies of every transaction from each of the DMVs with a simple written request. That same search today would provide nothing.

A 1925 vehicle would make it very difficult even if they did offer information because it is so old.

All you can do is try. I'd email and call that way you can compare the answers from at least two different people. If the person you talk to doesn't have any good answer ask if they know if anyone else in the DMV might be able to provide more detail.

PennDOT Driver and Vehicle Services - Contact Us

The info on the inspection station numbers probably exists somewhere but again talking to someone at the PA DMV who is willing to dig it up is the challenge.

I swear if I could access DMV info in all states and provide everything other than personal information I would be a rich man. This is very sought after info and is historical in nature to anyone assembling the life story of a particular car.

Good Luck!

[Restorer32]

Good luck! I called PA DMV to inquire aboout YOM plates and was unable to find anyone who had even the slightest idea what I was talking about.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Thanks Franklin,

I had this forlorn hope that PA, of all states, would have some sympathy for such inquiries, being the home of AACA and Hershey and all. BUt I will give it a try and report back. I would be happy just knowing the cities previous owners lived in and dates the car was registered. If no names and addresses are given out then where's the harm in that? They could even charge a research fee and make some money doing it....

Merry Christmas AACA-ers!

I guess I must be a bit of a dunderhead but for the life of me I cannot see how that information would in anyway enhance the enjoyment of owning a given car. A car is what it is and unless extraordinarily unusual in nature my knowing where it has been isn't all that exciting and wouldn't add a penny to its value.

[Guest my3buicks]

I have always enjoyed knowing a little about my different cars pasts. It gives you a little bit more of a bond with your car as it's current caretaker. It's a bit of a kewl factor as to whom may have owned your car. For instance my 53 was bought new by a Police Chief of a small PA town, my 69 Electra Conv was bought new by the then President of US Steel Co, my 72 was bought new by a woman for a 40th birthday present to herself - it just gives the car more of a personality in my opinion.

[Lebowski]

I guess I must be a bit of a dunderhead but for the life of me I cannot see how that information would in anyway enhance the enjoyment of owning a given car. A car is what it is and unless extraordinarily unusual in nature my knowing where it has been isn't all that exciting and wouldn't add a penny to its value.

I don't think he said anything about trying to increase the car's value. When buying an old car I always try to find one with a lot of original paperwork. I received positive comments from dozens of people when I displayed the original purchase order (below) and photos with my '49 Buick at car shows and cruises. I even tracked down a former owner named Herbert Nelson through a 40 year old registration who sent me a photo of the car taken on Christmas Day 1948 which was 9 days after it was purchased. He and his fiancee were 19 at the time and are in their 80s now and still married. I also sent some pics of the car and some info to the Harlan, Iowa newspaper which ran a story on the car on 12-31-10. I heard from a son of both Harry and Emory Hansen-the brothers (see pic of keychain that came with the car) who ran a local gas station and did a lot of work on the car. I also have a picture of the dealership where it was sold new. Plus I also have a picture of Pearl Buss from 1966 (elderly woman on right in blue dress) who was one of the original owners of the car. My guess is MikeC5 would probably like to do something similar if possible....

Edited December 26, 2011 by Lebowski (see edit history)

[MikeC5]

Keith and Lebowski, you guys nailed it. It has nothing at all to do with monetary value. It is simply the history factor which is part of the reason I 'dig' antique cars to begin with. 1925; in the heart of prohibition, the roaring twenties, etc. I know Dodge Brothers were only slightly higher on the pecking order than Model Ts, so no doubt this car did nothing more than haul families around for a good part of its life. Just one of the interesting stories is why a particular old car (especially a beat up jalopy) managed to escape the scrap drives for WW II is worth digging up IMHO. Sure it's a tiny slice of history, but why anyone would bother owning an antique car without being curious about who owned it, when, where is a bit hard for me to fathom. Privacy laws, etc. being what they are, I know it's a long shot that I'll ever find such specific information..

[Restorer32]

Documentation is where you find it. We did a '59 Caddy Conv for a fellow who had virtually no info re its history other than the name of the original dealership. While dismantling the car for restoration we found 2 torn in half tickets for the Cactus Drive In Theatre in Tucson, Arizona dated 1959. They were down in one of the defroster vents.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Keith and Lebowski, you guys nailed it. It has nothing at all to do with monetary value. It is simply the history factor which is part of the reason I 'dig' antique cars to begin with. 1925; in the heart of prohibition, the roaring twenties, etc. I know Dodge Brothers were only slightly higher on the pecking order than Model Ts, so no doubt this car did nothing more than haul families around for a good part of its life. Just one of the interesting stories is why a particular old car (especially a beat up jalopy) managed to escape the scrap drives for WW II is worth digging up IMHO. Sure it's a tiny slice of history, but why anyone would bother owning an antique car without being curious about who owned it, when, where is a bit hard for me to fathom. Privacy laws, etc. being what they are, I know it's a long shot that I'll ever find such specific information..

Mike there are multiple reasons why so many cars of the 1920s and 1930s escaped the scrap drives of WWII, not the least of which was the fact many of those cars were still being used at the beginning of the war. The economic times of the twelve years between 1929 and the beginning of the war dictated the continued use of an older vehicle by many. Beyond that the mentality of the public was different with respect to feeling the need to buy a new car every few years. Having to have a new car every two or three years was born post WWII and was driven by three factors. First was the improvement in roads allowing people to use their vehicles to travel beyond their immediate area without suffering major breakdown issues caused by the roads. Second, post WWII families had the cash to take two week summer road trips to explore the rest of the country. Lastly, following WWII came the rapid changes in body designs and power trains very often making each year's production a great improvement over the previous. In the most simple terms the post WWII circumstances seriously altered people simply looking at automobiles as a means of local transportation.

Anyone who was born after 1920 and during WWII will have remembrances of many of the enclosed cars of the 1920s and 1930s still being in daily use until a couple of years after WWII ended and the production of new cars once again catching up with demand. As the saying goes you had to be there and living the times, as many including myself participating in these forums were. As most will probably attest, the times were not nearly as glamorous as the restored or preserved vehicles of the era might today imply.

My original comments on the subject of trying to trace ownership or where a vehicle may have been in use over the last 80+ years was principally directed to the futility of the effort because of the nature of record keeping and vehicles potentially having been registered in multiple states over the period of time. I don't deny that coming across something that reflects on any car's past is fun and perhaps of occasional interest to others. Many of us have found goodies beneath the back seat, in a door, or in defroster ducts that make us muse over where a car came from and who might have been a previous owner and the nature of their lifestyle.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)

[MikeC5]

Makes sense Jim. Civilian production had ceased for the war so used cars were more valuable. No doubt the Great Depression necessitated extending the lives of many an old jalopy. Maybe a better question is how did some of these wrecks not get scrapped after the war as new car demand was satisfied?

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Makes sense Jim. Civilian production had ceased for the war so used cars were more valuable. No doubt the Great Depression necessitated extending the lives of many an old jalopy. Maybe a better question is how did some of these wrecks not get scrapped after the war as new car demand was satisfied?

Wow, now you're going to get a bit of an allegory. As you may know it takes a certain amount of scrap to make good new steel; but in spite of that fact at the end of WWII there was so much scrap that was easier to deal with salvage yards pretty much became acres upon acres of old vehicles with no place to go. It was a lot easier and cheaper for the steel mills to buy the "clean" scrap of rail road track being replaced and from the scrapping of surplus and obsolete vessels, both military and Merchant Marine, after the war than it was to mess with the thin and dirty stuff from salvage yards. As an example; at 80 lbs per foot, it only takes about 45 feet of scraped rail to equal the total weight of the typical pre-War automobile. There were also millions of tons of military equipment, such as trucks, jeeps, tanks, artillery pieces, and naval guns available for use as scrap steel.

A cousin of mine that served in the Navy in the Pacific on an aircraft carrier reflected the withdrawal from Pacific islands at the end of the war entailed the loading of tanks, trucks, road building equipment, etc., onto the decks of carriers and when they were in deep waters, they pushed it all off the back of the ship. The same thing happened with crates of clothing, blankets, and even food and medical supplies. (and probably no telling how much ammunition of all types) Why? there was simply no place to put all that stuff had they transported it back to the U.S.

In other words, there simply was very little market for steel scrap from old cars in the U.S. and that remained the case until the Japanese heavy industries began to recover in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Then came the crunchers followed with their helpers, the EPA, in the 1970s.

There was so much surplus after WWII that not even the Korean conflict knocked a serious dent into much of it that remained. We were still using materials left over from WWII when I enlisted in the Marine Corps in the fall of 1963. I was in total amazement to see crates of frozen meats packed during WWII were still on hand, still good, and being consumed some 20 years later. Left over fire arms, clothing, tents, and blankets were one thing, but frozen food was a shocker!

[MikeC5]

Interesting Jim. Here are scans of front and back of sticker.

[DAVE A]

Mike;

All I can say to you is "good Luck!!!". When trying to research my Crosley Farm O Road, I had the last registration ( from Pa. in 1958), the inspection sticker, vin number and the area of the state it was in. All I wanted to do was find the last Pa. owner to try to re title it in Pa. I was told that all of those records (which had been maintained in hard copy) were lost in the hurricane Agnes floods of 1972. I was told that there was no way to get ANY information on any pre 1972 registration. I hope you find something different. I had to go about it another way to succeed.

[gruberv8]

I lucked out with my 74 Ford F-100, which I am the third owner. the owners card was still in the glovebox with the orginal owners name and address on it. I took a chance and looked in our local phone book, and he still lived at the same address. I called him and told him how nice the truck was, he said, it should have been, I traded it in 1975 - it used too much gas!

I've only had luck with penn dot after getting my state representative involved. I would go to their office first to find out if it is possible or not.

I would love to see year of manufacture plates be allowed here in PA. It would be really cool if enough people could get together to pay a lobbiest make that happen.