Best/Worst car club experiences

[Dave@Moon]

The following is a part of a thread I started in August on this topic in the BCA forum. I typed this on the eve of leaving Pittsburgh and it's car scene after 40+ years and was quite depressed about it. I thought this would be a good topic for discussion the forum in as far as the social fellowship aspects of our hobby could be explored among members who may be dissaffected for various reasons. It was meant as a story of perseverance.<P>It may be a little disjointed to read, as I cut and pasted it here out of three posts from the original thread. Here goes:<P><B>POST #1:</B><P>I might as well put my soliloquy down at this point. (Yes , I do have a dictionary one the desk next to me!)<P>In my case the second worst thing that ever happened to me led to the best thing that ever happened to me, which in turn led to the worst behavior in the car community I've ever heard of. We begin...<P>For several years I was an active member of a local British marque car club even though I only had a restoration project/beater car of that type in my stable. That club happened to run the local "British Car Day" show, which is typical of most such shows except that it's held in conjuction with a VSCCA sanctioned vintage car race in a city park. It is a wonderful event, probably the most enjoyable car event I've ever attended. <P>I volunteered one year to run the car show. Big mistake! After taking it over I reviewed the records and found that attendance from the local area had been declining for years, and was recently in general decline. Asking around I found that several marque clubs were actively boycotting the event in part because my club had structured the event to favor itself in terms of the number of trophies (25% of the cars/44% of the trophies, although the impression was much worse) When it came time to print the ballets for participant voting it was suggested to me that some of the categories should be combined or split based on pre-registration numbers. This I did, which had the effect of slightly rationalizing the balance of the trophy:marque registration ratio. Before I did this I checked with every sitting officer in the club.<P>At set up night before the show, the past president and a few of his friends became <I> extremely </I> vocal in their dissapproval. Some people who had brought children actually had to leave. Virtually the entire club, including almost all of the people who'd approved the changes previously, joined in with him. (At least 2, however, sided with me privately, suggesting that I "punch out" the sitting president for his behavior. I didn't.) <P>The next day at the show, the ex-president organized (mostly by example) a complete boycott of the necessary activities to run this 400+ car show. Almost no club members assisted in registering, parking, vote counting. etc. Were it not for the assistance of numerous members of another marque club, the show simply wouldn't have come off. <P>I spent hundreds of hours working on tha show, and logged over 1000 miles on my vehicles supporting it. Two people in a club of 150 members thanked me.<P>I never attended another club function, except to resign my position at the next general meeting. I still have the car, though! <P>That was the second worst thing I've experienced, it led to....<P><B>POST#2:</B><P>....the best thing that ever happened to me in this hobby.<P>Because of the resolve and reserve I showed in handling the above stated mess, and my demonstrated knowledge and experience in the hobby, I was asked by the vintage race's car council director to be on the 20 member council that ran the coordinated car shows and displays associated with this vintage race. I found myself, at a time when I had no presentable collector car and no membership in any local car club, among the most generous group of people I'd ever known; helping to run one of the largest car events on the east coast. <P>At 36, and as an unemployed househusband, I was entrusted with tasks and was respected for my opinions on a board of people as diverse as the city. Literally serving alongside union stewards and megamulti-millionaires, all happily refering to each other as friends to this day. I eventually (over 3 years) earned my way to the position of "Car Show Captain", directing the 100th Aniversary of the American Car special display at the 1996 event. It was the greatest single day I've known in this hobby. I will always be very proud of how smoothly that show ran, and what an interesting display of cars we were able to collect. I and my partner in the event, Bill Artzbarger, put together an invatation-only display of over 150 cars, with at least one per year from 1912 on up (and several older ones back to 1898). It should've been covered by the National media.<P>About 1 year after inviting me onto the council, the director passed away very suddenly. It was a terific shock. I will always remember Larry Smith as the best this hobby had to offer.<P>However, as I stated, this led to the worst event I've witnessed in this hobby. It was truly terrible.....<P><BR><B>POST #3:</B><P>As I mentioned, the 1996 100th aniversary show was a huge success. It was too big a success.<P>The bulk of the combined car shows at this race are held on Saturday of the event during race practice and qualifying, Sunday being reserved for the race itself. In 1996, for the first time there were clearly more people in the park on Saturday than on Sunday. We had upstaged the race we were supposed to be supporting. Well, you and I wouldn't see it that way, but.....<P>The first hint of trouble came when the final acounting of funds for the event were announced. This is an all volunteer event that raises money for two extremely worthy charities. The car show was given credit for raising what was probably about 15% of what we really did collect (registration receipts and "in spirit" donations. There are overhead costs asociated with the event, but nothing like what would've had to have been charged for the figure announced. We fumed, but moved on...<P>Then, it was announced by the event's Board of Directors that the car show reistration fee would increase from $10 to $15 for 1997. This came from the race people who ran the event, the vast majority of whom had never even seen the car show. Those of us who thought we were running a car show weren't even consulted. We'd debated such an increase as a way to cash in on 1996's success, but dissmissed it soundly by an overwhelming vote. Now suddenly we were being told to charge $15 for an unjudged, multi-make, one day car display when our greatest historical obstacle had been steep resistance to the already very high $10 fee. In fact we'd had at least 20 cars sneak in w/o paying in 1996 because of the problem. <P>It seemed beyond strange that the people responsible for running the show didn't have the authority or gravitas within the organization to be trusted to set fees. Just 2 years earlier such an obvious power grab at the expense of the event would've been unthinkable. At that point we were relegated to passing out pamphlets and pointing to parking spaces only. Including the megamulti-millionaires.<P>Then, finally, some truly unspeakable behavior began to surface. The race people demanded the council replace the director, which we didn't. The director was announced as resigned, even though he hadn't. His replacement asummed "power" (in reality he probably couldn't dial a phone w/o race approval) when noone else would run for the director's seat. The council was downgraded to a "committee", and was expressly forbidden to coordinate or participate in events outside the race, something we'd done for years and which had brought great prestige to the organization. Individuals who had founded the shows were accused of stealing money from the charity (but only in very carefully deniable ways). <P>Within 2 years all but one of the people recruited to run this organization by Larry Smith had left. At least 2 needed the assistance of their attorney, and at least one was hospitalized with heart and stress-related problems. <P>The car shows were relegated to ghosts of their former selves, with registration falling by at least 75% and more per given show (American, Pre-War, French, Exotic, etc.) in 1997. Since then I'd estimate that no show has reached 50% of the numbers we had in 1996 (well over 1500 cars total, more than half American marques). Only the British and high-end German cars, favored by the race director and race people have continued to support the event in their past numbers. <P>There are people I know who've never recovered from this. We were well on our way to becoming the Pebble Beach/Woodward cruise of the east coast. It's depressing beyond words to think what we lost to these jealousies.<P>The lessons I learned:<BR><I><BR>1. Never take a lot of pride in work you do that can be taken away from you, and<BR>2. Never take on any task where it is possible to succeed to well! </I><P>

[Dave@Moon]

It's important to understand that I wrote the above saga as a sitting BCA Chapter Chairman.<P>I know this is a sad tale, but for me the core of the story was how a relative neophyte (albeit a knowledgable one) like me was accepted into this company and allowed to make important, valid contributions. I still don't own a truly show-worthy car. My Triumph and my Buick have never been more than driver vehicles at best (although both are certain to be much more in the near future). Yet I was able to find substantive participatory activities within our hobby, and have enjoyed the best personal relationships of my life within that context. <P>I think this forum could use a thread where the positivity (that must be a word, they used it on <I>Politically Incorrect</I> last week) of this hobby can be expressed. <P>What was your best experience of a personal nature which revolved around your cars?<P>What difficult circumstance were you able to overcome in your persuit of this hobby?<p>[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: Dave@Moon ]

[rocketraider]

It never ceases to amaze me, the crass stuff that adults sharing a common interest will do to each other. I have many positive experiences in my years fooling with old cars, and like everyone else, a few really bad negatives. Best? when, after 15 years of waiting for an incompetent Olds Club Zone Director to get the ball rolling in the Southeast, we were able to get him out of office and get chapters organised down here. Another best? when the Oldsmobile Grand Nationals were finally held in the Southeast two years running and were both successful beyond any of our hopes.<P>Bad? For legal reasons I won't go into details, but it has to do with a financial scandal at the top of a car club, and a vindictive newly elected national president who used his position to destroy several long-time directors and officers whose only sin was that they were on the board when his predecessor was in office.

[novaman]

For a hobby that is about having fun, and preserving old cars things sure get stressful enough due to adults acting like two year olds. You have the one that think they know best and rub it in everyone?s faces, those that pitch a fit if it isn?t done exactly their way. Then there are the one that fuss over the littlest things like someone?s attire (Not referring to lack of clothes here, just the combination). Then there is the money stealing, lying, and the vindictiveness of destroying someone. I have been around old car clubs since I can remember (I?m 35) and I?ve unfortunately seen this kind of stuff affect 4 different clubs by hurting morale, losing members and causing splits over the years. What is bad is when the clubs start boycotting each other like you guys have stated in your posts. That never heals any wounds. It just makes them grow further apart. <P>What I would like to see more of is when your club is having a function (other than a regular show), invite one of the neighboring clubs to join your club. This could do wonder for relationships between clubs, individuals, and a side benefit is hopefully you get to see some different cars for a change. We need to support each other?s club when and where we can and HAVE FUN!!! Remember this hobby is suppose to be about ENJOYING the old CARS and not about politics and grudges.

[rocketraider]

Novaman, you and I live close enough together that we probably know some of the same people involved in these debacles.<P>We tried working with other clubs. They wanted ours to do all the work while they sat back and got their financial cut. Then one of those clubs imploded and split into three different groups, none of whom have any use for the others.<P>What was it Ben Franklin said when they were drafting the Declaration? "We must all hang together, or we will surely hang separately"

[Guest]

One of the things I have found is that there are two types of automobile clubs. There are "restoration" clubs and then there are "race" clubs. <P>Restoration clubs seem to attract different types of members, ones who are mainly interested in keeping equipment in premium condition and showing their vehicles.<P>Race clubs attract members who are interested in one thing primarily, going fast legally. They have equipment that usually is just passable as far as looks go and all the money is spent on parts to make the car go faster.<P>My experience with roadrace clubs has been that the membership need each other to have a good time. It's no fun going around a race track all by yourself, if your not beating the other guy what's the point. The more guys you have to race against, the more fun your going to have.<P>Politics in race clubs usually surround who's car is legal and how we get more track time with the least amount of non race related work as possible. Usually these clubs operate in the red never turning enough profit to even buy new cones for the drivers school. Since the parts are constantly being broken in the search for speed, members don't have a lot of money to put back into the club.<P>Typically the older non racing members are the ones running things and the younger group concentrate on keeping the cars running, putting on the show and coming up with the entrance fee. If your main competitor is not running then you won't have any fun so these people go out of their way to get the other guy onto the track. <P>I have seen road racers unbuckle out of the car and run to the pits to help their competitor get to the line, GIVING him whatever parts he needs to get up there. No money changes hands, only the desire to race. In the pits the motto is what ever is yours is mine, these people will share what ever is in their trailer as though you were his brother.<P>It is this type of camaraderie that separates the two types in my opinion, racers need each other to have fun. This type of attitude is what has drawn me to this type of group and they could not care less if I was black, hispanic, white, asian, rich or poor. They just want me on that line so they can kick my butt. I need them there to do the same.<P>Many race members have restored cars too and the club usually has a mix of British, Japanese, German, Italian cars that all the members appreciate. There is no discrimination as long as it's fast or was fast in a bygone era. <P>They are usually brought to the track and parked in the pits for all to look at and oogle, but you wont find the driver standing beside it giving out trivia and polishing. He's too busy getting in the show or running it. If you visit a racers house the mint vintage car is parked outside while the ratty race car gets the garage if he only has room for one.<P>For sure it's a different kind of attitude. To be honest I can't think of a single politics related incident except for the odd accusation of illegal modifications or parts. These are settled in the most democratic manner by the accuser putting up money for a protest and the inspector does a teardown or inspection. <P>If the accused is found guilty the accuser gets his money back. If not he forfeits the cash. Their aren't a lot of these and most racers go out of their way to stay legal to avoid the loss of credibility. The sport is pretty much self regulating with codes and conduct spelled out in plain english. Nobody wants to get left out of the show.<P>I guess it's all about the adrenaline and we are all bunch of junkies trying to get the next fix. Of course there are exceptions, but they are not the real addicts and soon drift away to pursue other things. <P>One thing a recovering racer will tell you, is the last thing he will do is get into the pits again for fear of wanting a fix. It's better than sex, drugs or rock and roll and a lot more expensive too.<P>Non race club members don't need each other to participate, to most it is a social occasion and you need something nice to fit in. Racers just want you on the line so they can show you who's boss and they couldn't care less if it's got a new paint job or not. <P>As a matter of fact a car that's ugly and fast is something to be proud of if your beating the spanking new Porche in the other lane. You would be the king of the hill if you had the ugliest car that was also the fastest.<P>The most apreciated racers are the ones that have the least amount of money and are winning races, the rich loser who buys his ride with the latest equipment is lower on the totem pole than the poor guy who's winning. This means a smart person can be the winner no matter how much money he has, the little guy has a chance.<P>It seems the exact opposite in restoration clubs, to me anyway. I don't think you can change this fact.<P>The two are completely different and this is why I think there is so much bickering and coniving in restoration clubs, they don't need each other and respect is gained in the parking lot not on the track. It might surprise some that out on the race track every one is looking out for the other, you have to. You don't want to enter a corner at 140MPH beside someone you don't trust, his life is in your hands and vis-versa.<P>I always get a kick out of Television announcers making up some sort of rivalry between drivers on the race track, the drivers all think it's a big joke and will sometimes play it up. Fact is nobody wants to meet his maker on the track, just shake his hand and maybe moon him a little. <P>At the mandatory drivers meeting all the drivers are in high spirits even if they just lost all their possesions the day before, the meetings sometimes end with everyone shaking hands to make sure that there are no hard feelings.<P>High dollar motorsports can be a exception because of the money, but there is none in grassroots local racing so the egos are left at home. Most racers just love machinery and the competition and couldn't care less if they were racing lawnmowers or formula 1 cars. A race would break out pushing shopping carts if you got them all together in a mall, and if your cart fell over in the middle of a race someone would stop and help you up to get back in.<P>Personally I like both for different reasons, but then this is the only restoration club I participate in. <BR> <A HREF="http://www.wscc.mb.ca/wscc_one.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.wscc.mb.ca/wscc_one.htm</A> <P>I may be completely wrong, if so please disregard my opinion.<p>[ 03-03-2002: Message edited by: Chuck da Machinist ]

[Guest]

Dave@Moon, my opinion was more of a general impression gleaned from experiences related to me from other members of our club who left their previous club to join ours. Some retained their membership, others were so tired of the whole political nonsense that they left altogether. Most were relieved that we were so single minded and we only had racing as an agenda.<P>How to solve the problem is a difficult question, perhaps the rules and regulations of the club could be reviewed. SCCA rules are very specific about behavior and protocols, being sanctioned for points awards is completely dependant on meeting the organizations regulations. Failure to comply means the club loses it's national status and thus precludes any national participation by the members.<P>The other thing is the members are too busy keeping the car competitive and running that they don't have the time to devote to politics. It is difficult to find a person willing to take on the responsibilty of conducting the clubs affairs especially if one happens to be trying to campaign a car. It is a thankless job to be sure with everyone having their own idea how things should run and not afraid to badmouth your efforts when things don't go as planned or envisioned.<P>Strict rules and regulations go a long way to rectifying most of these disputes with clubs periodically having votes to solve problems as they come up. Having a higher power reside over any inter club associations or disputes seems to work for the racers ie. SCCA, NHRA, IHRA etc. Although nothing is perfect.<P>There is nothing quite as powerful as the threat of losing your sanctioning to a race club. There are many individual clubs represented on this site which is such a breath of fresh air. I think it is wonderful that through the power of the Internet we can all discuss and share. I do feel that the distinctions that are made, particularly over what constitutes a "classic" or "antique" is destroying the togetherness and camaraderie of the group as a whole. Racers on the whole couldn't care less what name was on the hood or when it was made and your choice of vehicle only places you in a competitive category so the racing is fair. <P>I think that merging Oldsmobiles and Buicks with Packards and Austins Healeys etc. can only galvanize the sport against further degradation. Although convincing the membership of the individual clubs of this may be impossible. It may very well be inevitable as the sport is dying a slow death from all the segregation and for sure it's not constructive or right.<P>It reminds me of the sillyness surrounding the Ford versus Chevy versus Dodge debate that permeates stock car racing, any body that thinks that Ford circling Daytona speedway has any relation to the one on the showroom floor is just practicing racism. This brand loyalty is fed by the media and the manufacturers to boost car sales and the public takes the bait, hook line and sinker. It has often been said that you will never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator.<P>Perhaps a clause about discrimination should be included in every clubs charter.<P>I think I've strayed from the original discussion enough that I will stop here, just some thoughts from an interested bystander who only wants the cars to be the focus not the reason.<P>I may be completely wrong, if so please disregard my opinion.

[Idle Swede]

Chuck, smart move to remove the few last lines in your previous post.

[Guest]

I'm still trying to get down those shorts and keep my foot out of my mouth at the same time Swede, for someone like me of limited intelligence it's a full time job. <P>This is a potentially emotional subject so I think I will bow gracefully out now, while I still can.<P>I may be wrong, if so please disregard my opinion.<p>[ 03-03-2002: Message edited by: Chuck da Machinist ]

[novaman]

rocketraider, some of what I posted happened when I was living in NY. Some here. I'm not going any further than that. I'm like Chuck here... trying to keep my foot out of my mouth.

[Guest]

Chuck da Machinist has passed on, his resurrected body has been taken over by his given nick name earned from his preference over 3 jaw chucks.<P>This new improved Chuck has greater cleaning power and a fancy new box with 100% less BS than before. We hope you like the new 4 jaw, try him out for 30 days and if you don't like him we'll fully refund your money.<P>This offer is only good for this forum and any implied warranties are subject to the specific laws of your state or province.<P>I may be wrong, if so please disregard my opinion.

[rocketraider]

And my daddy always said that even a fish would stay out of trouble if he'd keep his mouth shut! It took me years to realise it, but he was a pretty wise old man.<P>Anyway- I can say that the good experiences have outweighed the bad in my car activities, and I have tried to shrug off the bad. Right now I'm in a holding pattern on my own stuff, but I'm helping a Pontiac friend with some interior and wiring work on a 64 GP, and I am having a large time with it! It's great to see where you've improved something at the end of a work session. And that can make all the aggravation go away...

[Dave@Moon]

Chuck,<P>It sounds like you may have interpreted the history I related above to be an indictment of people who participated in the VSCCA race at this event. That couldn't be further from the truth. I doubt to this day if more than 5 or 6 of the drivers in the event (there are typically 150+ racers in any given year) have ever heard of these "behind the scenes" shenaningans. <P>While they were often far to busy to attend any of the car shows, the true racers in the event were mainly ardent supporters of the car shows. And visa-versa. The only race day I've missed for this event in 16 years was one I spent in the hospital. <P>The "race people" I mentioned above were mainly people who ran the event in an executive or administrative sense, often as a representative for the charities. I think there was only one then VSCCA licensed driver who was involved in any of these actions, and this person never drove competatively in the event.<P>Again, let me emphasize that the point of this thread is that I was able to overcome these events and still find enjoyment in the hobby. Within 3 years I joined, was elected co-chair and then chariman of my BCA Chapter. <P>I know people who were on the Car Council who have virtually not left their house since this happened. If this thread proves cathartic for even one reader, and we gain or regain an active participant in the hobby, then my hopes for this discussion will be fulfilled. <P>Please relate anything you think could be helpful to someone who's been burned like this! <p>[ 03-03-2002: Message edited by: Dave@Moon ]

[Steve Moskowitz]

Rocketraider, it is a shame that the Olds club has had to deal with a scandal that pretty much has shocked most of us who knew the individuals involved. I have know all those involved for longer than most people and actually worked with the principle offender when I worked for Olds. I was SHOCKED. I also have known our former President for years and having been a President of OCA in the past I have somewhat an idea of what sacrifices it takes to volunteer for that job.<P>I have watched from afar the club activities and individuals involved. Afar I will stay because I can not deal with folks with their own agendas. The clubs shoud be inclusive and managed for the good of the hobby. It is a tough and thankless job but it is important to many.<P>I have seen so many people in this hobby do so much for fellow members. I know how important the club publications are to those who have such a passion. I also have seen how much fun many club members have in attending meets when their PRIMARY goal is not to bring home a trophy. I have seen great friendships develop out of car club experiences. I think these friendships have to be the best outcome of our affiliation.<P>I also have to give kudos to the meet director in Denver last year. I marveled at the calm, concerned and fair attempts that Dale made trying to satisfy everyone. I personally thought it was the best job I have ever seen by a meet director.<P>

[rocketraider]

Steve, although I wasn't at Denver I've also heard many good comments about that show. They really had their act together. I didn't see letting people continue dancing on the backs of the bruised, so I opted out. First National Meet I'd missed since 1988.<P>Like another past board member told me about the editor mess a couple months ago, "the s**t never ends". I'm glad to be rid of it, though I have sadly watched my Zone start a downhill slide . No leadership. Hopefully this year's elections will change that.<P>GW

[Guest John W. Harvey]

My best experiences in this hobby have been with the people I have met and the friendships made. Most of the best memories are from national events that Cindy and I have attended. Our experience with the AACA and the National Monte Carlo Owners Association has been very rewarding.<P>We do understand the amount of work that is involved for these organizations to organize and sponsor a national event. For them we are grateful. We register, we pay, we go, we have fun, we see old friends, we make new friends, and we go home with more good memories! No fuss....No muss!<P>My worst experiences in this hobby have been at the local level. I could write a book, but it is not necessary because most of you could include at least one chapter of your own. Cindy and I joined a local club (not AACA). We remained in the club for 3 years. Yes, we were very active members. The two best days in the club: The day we joined and the day we quit!<P>John

[Dave@Moon]

It amazes me how quickly this thread died. I would've thought that there'd be a lot of stories out there people would want to relate that would help others in difficult circumstances.

[JanK]

A few years ago we were members of a non-AACA car club. This was a single marque club, which claimed to welcome all years and models. Unfortunately, that didn't play out in the events that were planned. Everything was designed around the 60's and 70's cars that the directors owned, and we were discouraged from bringing our older vehicle on more than one occasion. One "gentleman" actually suggested it would be better if we just drove our "modern iron" because otherwise we might slow them down. (Trust me, our car would never have slowed anyone down.) <P>They made an exception to that rule when they had their annual car show. Only then did they want us to bring our car, because they knew the older cars would attract the crowds.<P>On top of that, the club as a whole had a chauvinistic streak that even I couldn't tolerate (and I'm far from being a feminist). We eventually gave up our membership, and have never felt the loss.<P>It's a real shame that they didn't encourage the women to be more involved, because I've found that most men are happier if their wives are involved in the clubs. If a wife enjoys herself, and feels included, the husband is less likely to take heat over the membership, and the time he devotes to the hobby.<P>Jan K.<BR>Wis Region

[ted sweet]

I help run a 200-300 car single make sure, it also has about 150 race cars. Show is at a local drag strip. Nobody ever has anything positive to say to the show workers. They even blame us for the weather conditions.

[Steve Moskowitz]

I have benn thinking about this topic and realized that it gives me the chance to publicly thank a previous AACA President. Several years ago we were at a meet in Iowa that had an overflow crowd for the dinner. Several tables had to be set up in the pool area which was quite humid. The AACA National President had the entire head table move out into the pool area and put the members at the head table. At the time I thought it was one of the classiest moves I have ever seen. The President was Al Edmond.<P>The worst experiences (mot Many) have been the opposite of the above. The times where some folks obviously were too impressed with there "title" to consider that they are to serve their members. I have been a National President and have hosted shows so I think I have the background to speak on this.<P>Thankfully, the enjoyment of the cars and the great friendships far outweigh the bad experiences. In the end, everyone should lighten up and recognize it is the greatest hobby in the world!

[Mark Huston]

I have held off posting any of my good or bad experiences. Trying to decided if they would serve any purpose, other than to dredge up the past. I have been mostly involved in a single marque club for over 25 years. The positive times have been the close friendships I have had over the years with good people who give up their time and talents to help a fellow club member in need, and the wisdom shared by the "older members" who took a young rookie under their wings. The bad experience has been when I served as a club officer on a national level and through my own inexperience got sucked into national politics and paid the price. I have chaired car shows, many 3 day club meets and tours, but the one thing I will never, ever do again is be in the position of a club officer. It is a no win position - you are going to get burned one way or another. When I first joined a local single marque club I showed up with my pride and joy at my first club meet. The local good old boys of the club came over and checked out my car. I was as proud as I could be of my first collector car and glad to have a chance to show it off to some other lovers of the same marque. I was then told by the ring leader of the local boys club that my car was "a non-desirable item" After he pronounced judgement he turned and walked away - and all the other members followed as well. Non of them had the guts to express an opinion that was different from the ring leader. <BR>A few months later I decided to give them another try and attended another one of their monthly meetings. This time they were driving to a nearby town for a picnic lunch in a park. It was a caravan and when it was time to leave all the drivers took off like it was a race to see who could get there the fastest. This left me (I was driving the the 2nd oldest car a 1929) and another drive behind in the dust not knowing which way to go. The other drive was an 84 year old women driving the only car she had ever owned in her life - a 1925 model. She pulled over to the side of the road very upset not knowing what to do. No other club members in their newer cars stoped for us - they all just kept going. I had to calm her down and tell her that we would get there and I would try to figure out how to find the park. Well, we finally got to the park about the time everyone else in their newer cars where done eating and getting ready to leave. That was the last meeting of that club I ever attended and they wonder why I dropped my membership.

[Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL)]

OK. How about this? I was contemplating joining a (non AACA) club that was about 100 miles away. They told me when and where they met. I told them that I could probably make the next meeting, but my wife would not be able to come. The president told me "Oh, you don't understand. We don't go to their garden club meetings, and they don't come to our car club meetings." I went, but had pretty well already made up my mind not to join. My wife is my best friend. If she is not welcome, then I don't think I need to join.

[Guest]

I was one of a small group (maybe 12) that started a marque-only club back around 1986. That club has grown to become the only national club for the marque (Fiat) with around 600 members.<BR>One of the things we've noticed is that as the club has grown, the original members have formed their own 'cliques' without really trying. Newer members have expressed frustration that they have not been invited into what we jokingly refer to as 'the inner sanctum'. I've made it a point at our events to spend time with all the newcomers and try to make them feel welcome. <BR>Car clubs are just another area that power hungry types can rule the roost. We've been very fortunate that our club's leaders have generally been good guys that put the club first. Some have been more effective leaders than others, but overall we've been fortunate to have a good, friendly leadership.<BR>Another marque-only club I belonged to for a year didn't give the time of day to anyone who didn't either have the latest, greatest model available or a truly unique older model that was the club's icon. I expressed my dislike of the club in a very carefully worded letter explaining why I wasn't renewing, and never received a reply. Guess they figured 'good riddance'. Can't say I miss them.<BR>Incidentally, our Fiat club has accepted orphaned members from the Lancia club who have post-1974 models. The snobbery level of the Lancia club is immense, and any car made after this cut-off date they feel is not a 'real' Lancia simply because Fiat took over the company around that time (the car was still designed by Lancia). These members have found a warm welcome in our club and we give them their own class at our annual meet.<BR>Which brings me to the car show...nobody ever wants to do it twice. No matter how many different ways we do the judging, there are always complaints. But, for the majority, our methods of judging have made the show more all-inclusive so that not-quite-original or not-yet-finished cars can compete as well. The whiners are generally people we don't need around anyway. <P>Dwight V.<BR>co-founder, Fiat Lancia Unlimited<BR>1970 Fiat 124 spider

[Guest]

I have been in the AACA and the antique car hobby since the late 1950's, and by far the worst club is the El Paso region of the Horseless Carriage Club of America. They have turned most of the town off to antique cars and none of their children will have anything to do with the hobby. (And people wonder why younger folks have nothing to do with the hobby. It is the attitude of some club members!) The club is supposed to be a pre 1915 club, but only once or twice a year will a pre 1915 car be at any of their activities. Local chapters of a national club should represent the makes and years the national club promotes. I don't think any of thier officers own or have ever owned a horseless carriage. If you don't do things their way, they run you out of the club. They would rather tell everyone how much they know and how wrong other people are than work on their cars. This club really knows how to promote streetrodding by taking the fun out of antique cars.

[Guest]

In all honesty, I've got to say that reading all the backbiting on this forum has been my worst club experience. I refuse to believe that the whole club is like this, but it sure looks like it from here.

[Dave@Moon]

Stephen,<P>You're missing the point. The poeple posting these messages are still heavily involved in the hobby, most more so than when their tragic events occurred. These things happen in all organizations. There are K-Mart staffs with just as much intrigue and antimosity.<P>We've endured and are stronger. Sharing these experiences I think helps encourage unity, fellowship and community. Mainly I'm hoping it may help others who are using similar past problems as a reason for withdrawl from our midst.

[JanK]

I contributed my "worst case" story as an example of lessons learned. It could serve as a case study of what not to do.<P>On the other hand, I was so pleased to become a part of AACA, and the Wisconsin Region, because they were so different from my first car club experience. My region encouraged me to participate, and invited me to be a part of everything from the newsletter, the shows, the Board, etc. At no point was I made to feel second class or unimportant. <P>At the time I became involved, I was one of the few members under 40 in the region. (The median age was closer to 60.) They appreciated my talents and enthusiasm for the hobby, and encouraged me to share both. Are we a perfect region? Well, no. None of them are. But it's the best local car club I've ever had a chance to be part of, and the National structure is supportive of everything we do. Even without a life membership, we are life members.<P>Jan K.<BR>Wis Region

[Guest BruceW]

I notice several people mention serving as club officers as some of their worst experiences and even vows of never doing it again.<P>Call me strange, but I have to count my experience of being on the board of our region as one of my best experiences. While serving three years as Activities Director followed by 2 years as Vice President, I was a voting member of the Executive Board. Serving on the board allowed me to see why certain desires of members where handled a certain way.. whether it was due to logistical problems, conflict of club interests, or just flatly ignored. It gave me good insight into what could really be done and could not be done.. and what was just not done.<P>This was beneifical the next two years as I served as President. When a problem arose, I made sure to look into it. I think the membership, somewhat placid and perhaps jaded from a long time of the same old was skeptical at first, but they soon saw from results that I honestly looked into the problems. And although the result was not always to a person's liking, they knew that I had been addressed it fairly.<P>After a while, I saw a new resurgance of enthusiasm where before things had become somewhat routine.. even mundane. I won't say everything worked out but I was glad to be able to help as much as I could.<P>I have to admit that the benefits of being on the Executive Board were not only for the members but I benefitted too. Being on the board, I was given the opportunity to attend events such as the Annual Meeting in Philly where I may no have thought about attending otherwise. It gave me the opportunity to meet some new and great people. The biggest advantage of this was that it enlightened me and gave me a broader view of the National AACA organization....and to see that it was not just a necessary evil that money was required to be sent to. This in turn allowed me do things to make sure that the region benefitted from this broader knowledge and experience.<P>Sure there were the complainers and those that like to cause trouble for one reason or another. And everything did not always turning up roses. There were a lot of headache situations But those situations rolled off of me like rain off a duck. I survived and continue to believe that the antique automobile people are the greatest in the world.

[Guest]

Let's see, I have a good one.<P> Worst Car Club Experience:<P> I was attending a local AACA show and was approched my a guy who was handing out applications for a club he was promoting. I had never heard of it before that day. He told me that I was assured a good time and and that the club members were as friendly as they get. I signed up and all was well. Then, I went to my first club event. He wasn't just whistling Dixie about them being friendly! I knew something was wrong within the first ten minutes when I noticed some guys were holding hands and giving pats on the bottoms to each other. Hell, I didn't know that the Lambda Car Club was a national antique car club for <B>HOMO'S</B>! Thank goodness the old car started right up so I could get out of there.

[Steve Moskowitz]

StephenG, Lighten up! Part of life is expressing your opinions (hopefully people have them)! Most of the regulars in this forum have a tremendous passion for the hobby and are very active in one or more clubs. That does not mean that they agree or are happy with everything! There are so many local and national clubs out there that most of us belong to several (I belong to 6) but every club at one time or another makes mistakes. Sweeping them under the rug or not pushing for change does not benefit anyone! Anyway, the original post was for both GOOD and bad experiences!