Parts compatible with ethanol fuels

[RivNut]

I'm getting ready to rebuild a '66 Quadrajet using one of Greg Gessler's kits which have replacement parts compatible with ethanal based fuel (pure gas is getting harder to find around here) and I'm asking what else should I replace in the fuel system that will be impervious to today's ethanol based fuels? Rubber lines? steel lines? What do I do about the diaphram(s) in the fuel pump? Sending unit? The tank itself?

Thanks,

Ed

[bob71GS]

Ed,

In today's Historic Vehicle Association August newsletter, they have an article by a Ed Syrocki who is the owner of EMS Classic Car Care of Warren, MI on the effects of the ethanol fuels are doing to our antique cars and what he is recommending.

Here is the link to the article: Kernel Knowledge: One man on a mission to show how ethanol is wrecking your engine

Bob Bonto #277 ROA

Technical Advisor 71-73 :mad:

[RivNut]

Dejavu, Bob,

That was the article that I was reading that set my mind to wondering if anyone had compiled an actual list of things. Would a rebuilt fuel pump, for example, be rebuilt with the kind of diaphram that would be resistant to the affects of the ethanol or would it be rebuilt to OE specs?

My wanderings all started in an internet search to try and find area gas stations that sold pure gas (even thought it's unleaded, and doesn't have a very high octanne rating.)

Thanks,

Ed

[TexRiv_63]

Ed,

I don't have a full list by any means, but I can add a few things:

• All rubber based items in the system must be replaced with modern ethanol-reistant materials, including fuel pump diaphragm, fuel hoses, carburetor gaskets/seals, etc. If you have your fuel pump rebuilt by a reputable shop today it should have the right material. If you buy NOS or rebuilt off the shelf without knowing how old it is, watch out.
  
• I have not had this problem personally but I have heard that older gas tanks have sprung leaks at welded/soldered joints.
  
• If your gas tank was sealed inside in "the old days" the ethanol may strip off the sealer.
  
• Not parts related, but E10 only lasts about 6 months, then your car may not start. My experience is that additives don't do much good, the best thing is to drive it as much as you can and keep running fresh gas through.
  

A big problem these days without many solutions - good luck.

[Lapham3]

The article is a bit lean on specifics. Ethanol has been in Minnesota for many years now. I used to avoid it and go to some of the few gas stations where non ethanol was available. Of course, there was quite a 'premium' price involved. As time went by, I started to use our 10% blend and really haven't noted anything drastic in my 60's-70's cars. I also don't fill the tanks anymore at fall shutdown (condensation prevention)as I don't want 20+ gallons of 'getting stale' fuel and treating multiple cars and 100's of gallons with a Stabil type product is unappealing-the alcohol seems to handle the minimal condensation. With the minimal fuel, in the spring I have a lesser amount to dilute with fresh. So far, so good-just my experiences. Dan Mpls. Mn.

[Jim65Riv]

There is a web site that lists every gas station in the U.S. that sells ethanol-free gas - sorted by state and city. The list even has the octane rating sold. The site is Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada.

[RivNut]

When I was doing my searches, I ran across that one too. I was out today so I actually went by the closest one to my house (a Conoco dealer who has a service shop as well as the pumps.) I talked to the him and he said as long as folks will pay his price, he'll continue to make a "dealer's choice" and offer the unblended fuel. His price for the unblended fuels is 10 cents higher than for the blended ones. Not bad considering how much (little) these cars get driven. He only does it on the middle and upper grades, not the 87 octane stuff. I tried to get him to give me the name of his wholesaler to see if there were any stations closer to home, but I couldn't get it from him.

Ed

[Jim65Riv]

In Andover, regular is around 3.75.9 and 91 octane pure premuim is 4.29.9. Ten cents more a gallon would be wonderful!

[Guest wildcat465]

Gates makes "Barrier hose" that will not come apart inside from the alcohol.

[NTX5467]

Hidden in the lengthy parts lists for parts for QJet carbs, in the Chevy "paper" parts books, was an "Export" accelerator pump cup listed for "High Aromatic Fuels". Not every model year had the listing, but it was somewhere in the middle 1980s, as I recall. To me, "High Aromatic Fuel" meant "alcohol" and "Export" meant "South America" where they've been using ethanol for fuel for decades. They use sugar-based sources rather than corn-based.

All rubber items were re-chemistried along about 1992 to deal with the then-new "ReForumlated Gas", which contained about 5% ethanol in the main fuel blend.

Other than absorbing moisture, ethanol is a solvent, which means it'll clean out any residual rust in the fuel system, which might also result in leaks as it probably was the inner rust that was keeping things sealed up in the fuel tank. Remove the rust, leaks happen. This situation, the pre-ethanol "rust removal" could well have been the ethanol's solvent characteristics pointing to something "out of sight, out of mind" that would eventually require attention, but not quite so soon. As I recall, most of the prior (1990s) issues were with rubber items rather than the cleaning action.

So, as mentioned, the allegedly much sought after NOS items should be "off the table", especially if rubber items are involved--period. As we're now 20 years (almost) past the original rubber re-chemistrying to handle the then-new ethanol-in-fuel RFG, anything you'll purchase from normal channels (i.e., auto supplies and NON NOS suppliers) could well be fine.

If your fuel line might include some o-rings, BE SURE to get the ones which are "ethanol fuel rated", although they might not look any different from normal o-rings, except that you can't see the different rubber compounding with your bare eyeballs, usually. Buying from a "universal assortment" situation should be avoided.

Fuel tank sealers have claimed to be "alcohol-fuel resistant", when was it done? How well was it done? Adding another clear inline fuel filter might be an asset, before the fuel pump, so you can see what might be coming through the lines. For good measure, either a new tank or getting your existing tank done by Gas Tank Renu would be options to consider. There are many new fuel tanks available, even in stainless steel, courtesy of vendors which cater to the street rod market . . . some even "fuel injection ready".

Also, do NOT forget that rubber fuel lines exist in other places on the vehicle than just under the hood . . . like back near the fuel tank itself, connecting the sending unit to the fuel lines on the chassis itself.

Fuel lines? Might be something to consider getting some stainless steel lines.

Seems that we're going to end up using some sort of fuel additives, whether it's for "lead replacement", "octane boost", or "phase separation delay". All add to the per gallon cost of the fuel, but some might not need to be added to every tankful.

Some popular fuel additives, especially the "moistures removal" ones, contain alcohol. The fuel test kits website has a reasonably up to date list of which ones have alcohol in them and which ones don't. Their orientation is that as ethanol is a cleaner and moisture absorber anyway, to further add alcohol to the fuel with a fuel additive is not a good thing to do.

As has been stated, "phase separation" is usually not an issue for vehicles which see regular use, but can be when they aren't in that category. I concur with the "minimum fuel during the off-season" approach.

Regards,

NTX5467

[Guest Greg Gessler]

You want to use rubber fuel hose that is resistant to ethanol,

We carry ethanol resistant hose in 1/4" 5/16" and 3/8".

Ethanol resistant fuel line hose