Guest Rob J Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 So, I just picked up that white 401 65 Riv that was posted on here a couple of weeks ago. Car is very solid from what I can tell so far.Just trying to get it running good, before I do some cosmetics to it. I was not here when the transportation company dropped off the car, but apparently is was running, as they drove it off the truck, and parked it in my driveway.So today, I put a new battery in it, as the old one was gone. Tried to start it with the new battery, and the engine turned over fine, but no fire. Checked a few things, gassed it up a bit, and still nothing. Disconnected fuel line to carb, turned over, and gas came out, so fuel pump is working. So, I pour a bit of gas in the carb, and it fired up, then died. Did it a few more times, then it started to run fine, but only when I kept the engine revving at around 1,500 to 2k rpm. The moment I let off the gas to let it idle, it would die. I then poured a bit more gas in the carb, and let it run for about 2 minutes to warm it up a bit. The engine still died, when I tried to let it idle. Also, it doesn't seem to want to start, unless I pour a bit of gas in the carb. I tried adjusting the idle screws a bit, but no luck still. I'm thinking carb needs to get rebuilt, but not sure.I'm not really a carb expert, so what else should I check? I'd like to at least get it running before I give it a tune up.Previous owner said it was running fine.Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cannon Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I agree sounds like carb needs to be rebuilt. Make sure it is the correct carb for a '65 before wasting time/money rebuilding it. Do not go buy an off-the-shelf Edelbrock carb; put the correct AFB on it (rebuilt). Put the stainless steel spacer between the intake and the carb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Congrats on the purchase Rob. I wondered who ended up with that car.Check all the obvious vacuum lines for a major leak or perhaps accidentally disconnected. It does sound like the carb could use a rebuild. Assuming you probably insured the choke butterfly is in the correct position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingoftheroad Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I agree sounds like carb needs to be rebuilt. Make sure it is the correct carb for a '65 before wasting time/money rebuilding it. Do not go buy an off-the-shelf Edelbrock carb; put the correct AFB on it (rebuilt). Put the stainless steel spacer between the intake and the carb.Ditto !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob J Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 (edited) OK guys. I changed out the fuel filter, changed the oil/filter, primed it with gas, and after several attempts, she finally idled on her own. So, after a couple checks of things/brakes, myself and a buddy took her around the block for about 15-20 minutes or so. Seems to run fairly good. Engine sounds good, and does not make any weird noises or sounds. No power brakes however, so it was a leg press getting it to stop. The previous owner did tell me that the power brakes were not working.All in all, I'm very happy with this car so far, especially for the price paid.It needs some TLC, and to be gone through, but this is a good start at least.I'll be putting the restoration of the GS on hold for a bit, so I can focus on getting this car sorted out, as I'd like to be able to drive this car often. Plus this car will help me increase my knowledge of these cars. Edited July 10, 2011 by Rob J (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewatersky Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 happy to hear you got it going !it'll be super cool to have a driver whilst you're working on the GS restoration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrlforfun Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 OK Rob: No power brakes could mean a bad vacuum booster which could produce a ..........vacuum leak. Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob J Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 OK Rob: No power brakes could mean a bad vacuum booster which could produce a ..........vacuum leak. MitchPrevious owner stated that the booster was changed several years ago when his brother was alive, but it still didn't fix the problem. I think shortly after he passed, so the issue never got sorted. I plan to go through the entire brake system soon. First, I'm going to pull the carb, have it rebuilt, pull the manifold, clean it, ect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cannon Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 At some point someone probably installed a new or rebuilt master cylinder. When they did, they probably left the o-ring off of the neck of the master cylinder where it goes into the booster. Or the o-ring is leaking (which is why they replaced the booster) but they did not replace the bad o-ring, so the problem was not fixed.Either way you get a vacuum leak that kills the power brakes.Something to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob J Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Thanks for the tip Jim, I'll keep that one in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Squeeze closed the rubber vacuum line which feeds the booster with a needle nosed pliers while the engine is running. If this changes the way the engine is running you have a vacuum leak. This may explain your engine running and power brake problem. In regard to the absence of power brakes pull the check valve out of the housing to see if you have FULL engine vacuum on the booster side of the check valve. If not, check for full vacuum on the engine side of the check valve by removing the rubber vacuum line from the check valve. Check for a collapsed rubber vacuum line or check if the carb mounting gasket has deformed and is partially or completely blocking the vacuum passage in the base of the carb. The booster needs to see FULL manifold vacuum to function properly. Unless you are convinced the carb needs rebuilding put some running time on the car while you sort out other problems. Sometimes carb driveability issues will sort themselves out after a few tankfuls of gas; especially on a car that has been idle for an extended period of time. Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob J Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Thanks for the tips Tom. How much vac should I see if I hook a gauge to the hose to the booster when the engine is idling?The main reason why I think my carb needs a rebuild is, when I snap the throttle back, I don't see any fuel spraying from the accel pump nozzles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Depending on the state of tune and condition of your engine you should see about 20 inches.If you feel the engine is not running properly work that problem out first, then tackle the vacuum issue. You may find these two issues are tied together.When a carb sits for an extended period of time and the fuel evaporates from the carb the accelerator pump diaphram can dry out resulting in hard cold starting and a bog upon acceleration from an idle speed. Sometimes the accel pump will return to life, at least to a somewhat acceptable level for cruising, after some operating time. Sometimes, no dice. This is exactly the type of driveability issue I was referring to. But this would not be an issue I would consider a priority if I was having a brake problem...The sequence of attack is the same for any old car revival no matter what the make/model...first, make it run. If the engine condition makes continuing a worthwhile investment of time/money... Second, make it stop. At this point you will have a running/driving car that will hold your interest and fuel your enthusiasm/ambition. This step also affords one the opportunity to evaluate the rest of the drivetrain and decide if one would like to turn the engagement into a marriage. Third, get involved in the details while you continue to drive and enjoy the experience. At this point one will have a thorough understanding of the condition of major components and which areas will require rebuilding/investment. If, by this time, you are convinced "`till death due us part" take the car completely apart and start the process all over again!Have fun! Tom MooneyP.S. It is highly advisable to stop after step three unless your car is a collectible "heavy hitter"! At least that is what my bookkeeper and I have learned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul K. Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Was the motor ever rebuilt according to the seller? If it was and the engine still does not idle well and has low vacuum AFTER you check all the simple things, you may have a non-stock camshaft with an aggressive profile. This is a remote possibility but it happened to me so its worth mentioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob J Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 According to what was told to me, and the records that came with the car, it has never been rebuilt. It also does not appear that it has been molested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassesguy Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Tom: Agree totally with your paragraph on old car revival. As Glass City Chapter Director, when I'm approached regarding what should be done on a car the person is considering buying, what you're saying is what I'm saying. Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewatersky Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 you have a way with words Tom.Pragmatic, but recognising the romantic in every classic car lover (romantic towards the car, at least) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Everyone has different priorities and a different perspective. I feel mine have evolved over a few decades from one end of the spectrum to the other so I`d like to think I can understand what drives most old car enthusiasts. When I first started collecting I wanted to get intimately involved in every detail and refurbish everything no matter what the cost! I could spend an entire weekend just cleaning/polishing! Now, I hesitate to become over invested in any one car because I want to have funds available for the next "find"..I tend to "store" cars rather than "restore"...and I despise spending my time cleaning and polishing when I could be driving or sorting out some mechanical gaffe or exploring an original detail that peaks my curiosity...I have done a complete "180" over the course of three decades. Time and experience = introspection tends to do that in everyone...but I remember what, when and why I did the things I did. Boy, would I like to take back some of the "improvements" I made to some nice original old cars over the years! Bottom line is "different strokes for different folks"...what a cool hobby filled with interesting people..and cars! Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob J Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 The car hobby is a disease, that's for sure. Some folks love it, some hate it. I, naturally love old cars, my wife, ehhhh, not so much. They are all old POS's to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewatersky Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 The car hobby is a disease, that's for sure. Some folks love it, some hate it. I, naturally love old cars, my wife, ehhhh, not so much. They are all old POS's to her.so, do I read that line as your wife doesn't love old cars so much... or.... the OTHER way it could be read ? :eek::eek::eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob J Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 so, do I read that line as your wife doesn't love old cars so much... or.... the OTHER way it could be read ? :eek::eek::eek:LOL, you may have a point there, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob J Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Update.Well, got a bunch of tune up parts in today, so I started working on it tonight. (So glad I have AC in the garage) After getting into the distributor, I think I may have discovered the, or one of the sources of my vacuum leak. I've got a bad vacuum advance diaphragm. Luckily, I had an extra one from my parts car, which checked out ok. So, got the new advance in place, changed points, condenser, set gap, changed plugs, wires, cap, and rotor. All I need to do tomorrow, is replace a couple of the vac lines, and I'll attempt to get her running again so I can adjust the dwell, and check the timing. Hopefully she will run good, and I'll have power brakes. Will find out tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Vacuum advance diaphram is something most overlook. It`s easy enough to check, assuming one does not have ported vacuum simply remove the vacuum line while the engine is running. If the rpm changes the diaphram is good, if not, there is an issue. This one simple repair wil completely change the character of the engine....completely! This sort of attention to detail is what makes the difference between an old car that is a pain to drive and what should be a `60`s velvet cruiser. Nice catch.. Tom MooneyP.S. Bet your "carb problem" will be greatly reduced if not eliminated after you get things dialed in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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