gundog99 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) The ethanol content in petrol set to rise from 5% to 10% in 2013 in the <ST1:p<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com</st1:country-region>UK </ST1:p.We have been warned that the following are not recommended for use with the new fuel.Zinc and galvanised materials,BrassCopperLead/tin coated steelAluminium (may be an issue for E100Buna-N (seals only),Neoprene (seals only),Urethane rubber,Acrylonitrile-butadiene hoses, and Polybutene teephthalatePolyurethane,polurethaPolymers containing alcohol groups (such as alcohol based pipe dope) Nylon 66Fibreglass-reinforced polyester and epoxy resinsShellac PolyurethaneNylon 66Fibreglass-reinforced polyester and epoxy resinsShellac PolyurethanePolymers containing alcohol groups (such as alcohol based pipe dope)Nylon 66Fibreglass-reinforced polyester and epoxy resinsShellac<ST1:p<st1:City w:st="on">Cork</st1:City></ST1:pI understand in the <ST1:p<st1:country-region w:st="on">USA,</st1:country-region></ST1:p the ethanol content is about 10 %. What problems have been encountered in pre 1930 vehicles? Edited March 14, 2011 by gundog99 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen_Dyneto Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Yes, we've been 10% by volume in most states by federal mandate for quite a few years - biggest boondoggle ever foisted off on us in my opinion.Primary issues were rubber parts, fuel pump diaphrams and flex gas lines. All our rebuilders and suppliers have changed over years ago so it's no longer much of a problem. Increased propensity for vapor locking has been noted by many. Shellacing of cork fuel gauge floats and the like is a problem but other coatings are available. Some of the early gas tank liner coatings presented some problems that's also well behind us now.Problems with tin/lead and galvanizing is likely to only be a problem if your gasoline contains much water. Never seen or heard of any significant problems with copper or brass. Hope this helps you. I guess you can also prepare yourself for decreased gasoline mileage and higher costs. I'm sure others will have many more observations but I've been using the damn crap in my 34 Packard for a decade or however long it's been required and those are my observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Some users report a 10% increase in fuel consumption in other words lower mileage. So they could leave the alcohol out, charge more for the gas and it would come to the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) Some users report a 10% increase in fuel consumption in other words lower mileage. So they could leave the alcohol out, charge more for the gas and it would come to the same thing.That is a possible outcome for a carburated car, particularly if it isn't properly tuned to use E10 fuels. Modern, fuel-injected cars usually see a 2-3% drop in gas mileage due to the lower energy content in ethanol. There are areas in the U.S. Mid-West that have had nothing but 10% ethanol to burn since about 1979. Strangely the complaints about ethanol and adjusting to it (which is necessary because it does cause problems in antique cars) don't come from there. In other words it's an issue, but not the end of the world (yet). Edited March 15, 2011 by Dave@Moon (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest billybird Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I just got my "Hagerty" magazine a couple days ago. In an arcticle entitled Last Gas, the caption before the arcticle reads THE EPA OK'S e15 USE. The caption further states: Harmful to the environment, a burden on taxpayers and bad news anyone who operates a vehicle - the government plows ahead with ethanol. My words = we may be in for even worse fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundog99 Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs report on E10 FBHVC Bio Fuels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) Driveability issues do arise with older vehicles due to the lower caloric content of the ethanol. This issue is more of a problem with vehicles in the 1950's and 1960's with somewhat higher compression than pre-1930 vehicles. The newer vehicles came with a more efficient state of "tune", thus lowering the energy content upset them more.Fuel economy will suffer. By the time one recalibrates the carburetor to relieve the driveability issues, fuel economy will suffer by 8~10 percent on carbureted vehicles.Interestingly (at least to me), this percentage is even greater on fuel injected vehicles which rely on oxygen sensors to control the mixture. Since the ethanol contains oxygen, the O2 sensor is confused, and calls for more fuel. Fuel economy losses of 15~20 percent are not uncommon on late 1980's and 1990's fuel injected vehicles. The good news (if there can be good news from a 15~20 percent loss in fuel economy) is that since the engine now uses more fuel; these vehicles actually run better. Newer fuel injection systems (post-2000) and "flex-fuel" systems seem to handle the ethanol somewhat more efficiently, at least on mileage losses.As was previously posted, rubber and neopreme components will give issues.As far as damage to aluminum, zinc, etc.; this would be a long-term issue (probably due to water absorbed by the ethanol). The floors of carburetors tend to more quickly (over years, rather than decades) have electrolysis holes form.And while I have not personally seen the damage, many of the boat people scream about deterioration of fuel tanks.All in all; not one of the wiser moves by our government (my opinion, others may differ).As far as carburetor calibrations are concerned, we suggest enrichening the mixture in all calibrated circuits (idle, off-idle, main, and power) IF DRIVEABILITY ISSUES ARISE.Jon. Edited March 15, 2011 by carbking (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph P. Indusi Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 At our last local AACA Region meeting, we had a guest speaker who is known for radiator and coolant work. He said that the new E10 gas will make my Buick straight eights run hotter. I don't seem to understand the mechanism or reason if this is true.Any ideas?Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted sweet Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 id u live in ny u already have e-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 At our last local AACA Region meeting, we had a guest speaker who is known for radiator and coolant work. He said that the new E10 gas will make my Buick straight eights run hotter. I don't seem to understand the mechanism or reason if this is true.Any ideas?JoeSince ethanol has less energy than gasoline, it will run somewhat leaner. Leaner engines tend to run somewhat hotter. This is part of the driveability issues I previously mentioned. If one recalibrates the carburetor to compensate for the ethanol, the engine will not run hotter.Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph P. Indusi Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Carbking:I assume recalibrating the carburetor involves re-sizing the jets or the metering rods (I have a Carter Carburetor on the 53 Special). How about the idle? Can I simply enrich the mixture? This car runs really great so I would hate to get into carburetor modifications.Joe, BCA 33493 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Joe, if it runs great, don't "fix it" until you have problems!If you do have problems, then you would need to enrich the mixture. This is done by resizing the idle tubes, and either resizing the main jets or using a thinner metering rod for the main circuit.Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph P. Indusi Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Thanks Carbking.Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundog99 Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 Thank you all for your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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