Showfield Etiquette ?

[Shop Rat]

I will be interested to see what Herb has to say in this matter. It sounds as if the material type is correct just the color is wrong.

[Guest billybird]

While we're all really just speculating untill we hear from Mr. Oakes, Let me throw out this idea. The "hard" top portion of the judging manual indicates a mandatory 10 point deduction for an incorrect color hard top. Seems like the convertible tops would be subject to the same deduction regardless of if the material is correct or not. The wrong color hard top is obviously the correct material { i.e. metal }. Just something to think about.

[Guest windjamer]

I did not mean to start a judging class on this, I was only funning. Bill. Bill is our club news letter editor and dos an outstanding job. Both his Mets. are vary nice and have been featured on the cover of Hemmings and outhers. Seems like every MO. one or anouther of his cars is in a mag. If you meet Bill be sure and tel him he has a nice car,even if it has the wrong color top.:eek:

[ericmac]

I have read this thread with interest. I have a 1926 Model T that has been on the cover of the AACA magazine. It is an AACA Senior Grand National car and has been very well honored for the restoration. I know that the car is not perfect and was not perfect when I won my Senior Grand National award. I have NEVER seen this as a problem with the judging process. Conversely, I have seen myself as lucky to achieve the award I did. I think AACA does a fantastic job and properly rewards very nice cars. If you have won a major award it is a feather in the cap of your car and a tribute to your hard work.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Ericmac,

Thanks for a little sanity and the appreciation. While we have this section in our forums, it is hard for the club to always monitor.

Susan, your intentions are well placed but Herb cannot be 24/7 working for the club. He has been gone several weekends in a row at meets and has a ton of correspondence from previous meets to answer. Remember, everyone, Herb and the other directors serve 60,000 members! I am not sure how soon he can get to this thread as he just got back last night! Secondly, he has so many other issues to deal with he had to cancel going on the AACA tour this week! He will kill me for bringing all this up but I am aware of how much work he has in front of him right now. I just did not want everyone to be sitting in front of their computer waiting for an answer, working late tonight so I chimed in.

Matt, you read the manual and you are right. Just that simple...most times just looking at the judging sheet or reading the manual will get you the answers you seek

Edited August 25, 2010 by Steve Moskowitz (see edit history)

[Guest DonRich90]

When I started this thread I sure didn't expect this number of responses and I want to thank you all for a lot of great and interesting information. I was with my friend with his Riveria at a cruise-in this past weekend and we discussed what I had learned here on the forum. It answered our questions and I think it gave him a much greater insight as to what to expect at Hershey. Thanks a lot.

With what I learned here and reading the on-line rules, I think I might even show my '66 Ford next year in Hershey's HPOF class and join the fun

Don

[john2dameron]

I attend lots of shows, strictly as a spectator taking photos and shooting the bull with people. Sometimes I have a young person or two with me and I instruct them very plainly before we get close to any vehicles that they are not to touch anybody's car for any reason. If someone has a problem restraining his hands I tell him to put his hands in his pockets and leave them there, period. That works. I will not touch anyone's car for any reason unless the owner specifically tells me to. Truck club people will often invite you to get in their truck and look it over. If that's okay with them, then it's okay with me but it's their choice. Sometimes I wear one of the hated backpacks but I never let it touch anybody's car. The reason I wear a backpack is too carry extra photo equipment, a drink or two, and a couple of snacks to maintain my sugar level and prevent it from crashing after taking my medicine. If the weather is threatening rain, as it briefly did in Blacksburg, I also stuff a jacket in the back pack. The reason I find this necessary is that there is often no regard at all for spectator parking and parking 1/4 mile or more away from the show field does not work very well. It was especially nice at Blacksburg to have plenty of parking just across the street from the show field. What I did at Blacksburg was put everything I needed in the pocket under the seat of my walker and park the walker on the grass where I could return to it when I needed. The reason I have the walker is that I have a severe pain problem in my legs after extensive back surgery and if my legs get to hurting too bad, I have to sit down 5 or 10 minutes and rest them so it's either have the walker or sit on the ground and when you're 70+ years old getting up is sometimes not easy. My main gripe at shows are the people who stand close to a nice car, not to look at the car but to chat. Waiting five extra minutes to take photos of a car means one or two more cars that I probably will not get to see at all. This summer I was at a show and a gentleman remarked to a car owner that I was wanting to take a picture and the owner said, "F--- the picture." That man was also probably close to 70. You'd think he be more polite and use better language than that. Thank goodness, I didn't hear anything like that at Blacksburg. Oh well, the world is full of all kinds of cars and all kinds of people. You just can't let the bad apple spoil the whole bushel.

[charlier]

Charlie...as usual nice seeing you at Blacksburg along with your brother Chris. Hope you had a good trip to Hagerstown.

You have been to a lot of Meets. Let's take Blacksburg for an example however it applies to all meets that I have attended plus non-AACA events. There was absolutely no fencing around the premises. No entry gates at all. Question: How many signs would it take at Blacksburg and how would you propose that every visitor read the signs not to mention adhere to the listing of rules about show cars?

You may have a good idea here however I am at a loss as to how it could be enforced. Hope your idea was not generated by damage to your car. (I cannot fathom how many signs or other media it would take to get the message across to the thousands of spectators at mega-meets let alone the cost and army of volunteers to police it.)

Regards,

Peter.

Peter, It was nice to see you at Blacksburg as well. The trip to Hagerstown after the show was uneventful.

Regarding the Showfield Etiquette Signs you bring up some good questions.

Over the years I have seen and experienced many of the situations I posted about and some I did not.

Some of these situations did occur at AACA Meets. Thank Goodness, damage to a show car did not occur as a result that I saw or experienced personally. Was it dumb luck? The guardian angel of show cars? Who knows. I have been at non AACA shows where show car owners were not so lucky and there was damage done to a show car. In one of those cases, the car was mine. That gives one a whole different perspective.

I had not really thought of these signs as a list of rules but more of an educational tool to inform and enlighten the spectators.

Some people may read them as seem them as a list of rules. Depending on how the signs are phrased. I suppose they could be taken as

"rules", "suggestions" or simply "requests".

How many signs is not an easy question to answer. No doubt that number needed could vary from meet to meet.

Some meets do share certain common characteristics that might help when placing signs.

For instance at many meets the vehicles are placed in rows. Signs could be placed at the end of some of these rows.

Almost every single meet I have ever been to has had bathroom facilities and food vendors (with the exception of meets held on city streets I suppose). Based on the lines I see for these services the vast majority of spectators appear to use them. That would be a perfect place to put some of these signs (outside while people are waiting to use them). Some meets have spectator parking areas. Signs in these parking areas or on the paths/walkways from the parking area to the show field might be a place to consider placing the signs. Most meets I have been to usually have tents where the hosting Region/Chapter or AACA National sell items, etc. What about placing signs at these tents? Some AACA Meets have been held on parking lots with light poles and/or sign poles. Those poles might be a location to consider for signs.

Obviously, AACA National could not afford to have a huge number of signs made up. Nor should there be signs at the end of every row of cars on the show field or every bathroom, food vendor area, light and sign post. Somewhere between what we have now (ie no signs at all) and putting up signs everywhere there have to be a good compromise.

Unfortunately, there is no easy answer to this situation. It may take some time, thought and money. Hopefully the powers that be at AACA National will consider such a spectator sign education program in the not too distant future.

[LINC400]

With my previous Lincoln, I left it open at a show and was gone for 10 minutes. When I came back, someone had moved the power seat all six directions, moved all my mirrors, and moved the tilt steering. No damage was done, but it was an extremely ignorant thing to do. If they had asked, maybe I would have let them sit in it. But helping themselves when I was not there and moving everything was just extremely rude and thoughtless. A friend of mine went to the bathroom and came back to find a kid using the trunk of his 1960 T-bird as a slide. The father was standing right there, and said nothing! There are plenty more stories. So I think this needs to be addressed.

When I was little, I was told absolutely do not touch the cars. Put your hands in your pocket if you can't stop touching things. And as a last resort, we leave or you are left in the car if you don't behave. Apparently not many people teach their kids this anymore. And it is even worse when adults aren't behaving appropriately. Apparently they were never taught as kids, or simply don't care at all.

In addition to the sign suggestions previously mentioned, perhaps some cheapie Xerox flyers should be handed out when people enter the show. Maybe they should even have to sign that they agree with this, and can be kicked out if not abiding by the rules. It might be expensive or extreme, but if it prevents a Coke from being dumped in someone's fabric interior or saves a $10,000 paint job from being scratched, it's worth it. Unfortunately the disrespect for other's cars seems to be getting worse, not better.

[MCHinson]

LINC400,

I don't know what type of shows you are attending or where, but I have never experienced anything at all like that. I only know of one AACA meet where there has ever been a significant problem with damage to anyone's cars.

While some signage may sound like a good idea, based on 30 years of law enforcement experience, I think you are fighting a losing battle. Printed material will only contribute to litter on the grounds that has to be picked up. The people that need to be educated will not read the hand outs, but will sure be happy to toss them on the ground. The people that need to be educated will not read any signs.

The people that do not need the education are the only ones that would take the time to read it.

This is best handled by one on one education when a potential problem is developing. Politely educating someone will be more likely to stop inappropriate behavior. Screaming will not fix the problem, signs will not fix the problem, hand outs will not fix the problem. Polite conversation is more likely to help educate those who need it. Look out for your car, look out for your neighbor's car and don't hesitate to speak up when you see a problem developing.

[DAVE A]

I have to agree with Matt on this one. There will be much more gained by an owner who takes the time to talk to people than volumes of flyers and signs. I submit to all of you that spending the time educating people not just about the car they are looking at and what is special about it but on the time, effort and love (as well as money) put into restoring our vehicles will make a permanant improvement on the viewing public. I spend most of my time at a show on my feet (or in a chair at the front of the car) talking to people. I am one of those that will invite a young person to sit in the car to have their picture taken. I also hand out copies of literature and coloring sheets on my cars so that people develop a respect for the cars (no small job [pun intended] with a Crosley). When that little guy approaches with cotton candy in hand, I take a proactive move and I approach him and begin talking about the car and all the hard work that went into it, I ask if his mom or dad has a camera and a place to put the cotton candy. I offer a towel and a little windex to clean his hands and then I sit him in the car. I control the situation and you can too!!! The parents leave happy, the kid leaves happy, and my car is undamaged and a memory for a family. It is a lot of work, but the rewards are worth it.

I see so many comments that the cars make the show. While that is true, there is no show without someone to look at the cars. There has been a lot of outcry against entry fees for car shows (that spectators should pay the bill). I could support that if more people took the "entertain the spectator" approach. If we don't make it an experience, there is no way a large percentage of people will pay to just look at the cars, we have to make it more than a display that they can get on line. Get out of your chair and be proactive. Talk to the public. Not only will you gain an admirer, you just might find that needed part or next project.

[Shop Rat]

..... I offer a towel and a little windex to clean his hands and then I sit him in the car. .....

A good alternative to Windex is unscented baby wipes. They come in a pop-up type box and are less harsh on the skin than Windex.

I like your idea of the coloring pages for the kids. We both judge currently but we aren't showing a car yet, but when we do I will remember that.

[DAVE A]

I like the baby wipes idea, but it is something extra to carry along. Everyone already has Windex and a towel in their detailing supplies. However, if you are taking the time to plan for the public......Why not baby wipes?? Thanks for the idea!! Most clubs have clip art on their club pages so the blanks for coloring sheets are available. A quick layout and printing on a home printer and for a few cents you have sheets to pass out. If I find a way to buy a bunch of caryons cheap, I'd include them too!!!

[LINC400]

The above is all well and good. But maybe people are just more obnoxious in my area. At a cruise night (which I attend), I expect the general public to be more uneducated and perhaps more obnoxious. So my doors are locked, and windows rolled up. There are still fingerprints all over my car when I get back. Annoying, but they do wash off a lot easier than mustard out of my velour seats. If I am by my car and someone expresses interest, I will open a door so they can look at it or take a picture. Depending on the person, I might even let them sit in it.

At a car club sponsored car show, I expect better behaviour. I leave one window open. The other closed with my brochure on the dash. Yet there are still people that have to "pet" my seats. At the last AACA show I was at, I had to finally close the window since I did not feel like shampooing the interior yet again. And when my seat, mirrors, tilt wheel, was moved, that was also at a show where people should know better. In fact, if you are not familiar with 1970's Lincolns, the tilt wheel is basically hidden with nothing to indicate the car has it. So whoever moved it knew these cars, and should have known better than to be playing around in someone else's car.

I agree it is nice to talk to people about the car. But I am not going to spend the entire day sitting next to my car in case people are interested. I want to walk around and see the other cars, and talk with their owners. So I should be able to leave one window open and not have to return to everything moved or mustard on my seats. If not, the car is closed and locked. Which is unfortunate for those that are interested in it, and know how to behave.

And talking to offenders may or may not accomplish something as well. At the Ford Centennial, we met a guy with a 1903 Ford that was friends with our friend. He asked if we wanted a ride. We of course said yes. When we got back, we asked if he would take our picture in the car, which he did. Right after we got out a woman with her kids jumped into it, and instructed her husband to take a picture.

Owner: What are you doing?

Woman: I want my picture taken.

O: This is a private car, please get out.

W: I am not leaving until I get my picture taken, those other people had theirs taken.

O: Those are friends of mine, and even they asked for permission.

W: I am not leaving until I get my picture taken.

O: Get out before I throw you out

W: I am going to complain to Ford

O: Go ahead.

The owner was actually more pleasant in the beginning, but I forgot the whole conversation. She was just obnoxious. I have also politely asked people not to touch cars, or watch their camera, keys, jacket zippers that are banging against the cars, and have gotten sworn at. They also like to state that there is nothing that says they can't touch the cars. So with that in mind. I think some signs would be a good idea. I suppose flyers could end up as litter as well. But there must be some kind of middle ground to get the spectators to behave.

[Shop Rat]

In my lifetime, at this point 59 years and four months , I have watched as folks have gone from teaching their children to respect not only what they have but what others have as well. Yes there were kids that didn't learn but they usually had other issues beyond that.

Now as you state, people feel they need to be told not to do things or it is okay and their "right" to do whatever they want to. Sadly it is one of the primary reasons given why many will not bring their vehicles out if they can't be with them the entire time to guard them from being damaged.

I continue to be amazed/stunned at parents that not only don't teach their kids to keep their hands to themselves but ignore their kids as they push every button they see and treat any electronic item such as credit card machines, etc. like they are a game to be played with.

We as owners, friends of owners, show field neighbors, judges, Team Captains, etc. need to have each other's backs to help keep the vehicles safe.

[R W Burgess]

A close friend of mine has had antique cars for years, now down to a collection of six. He has this old weather beaten cardboard sign that he sets in the window channel of his Chevy convertible.....

"Nothing in this car is worth dying over!":eek::cool:

Most people laugh with him over, but it does send a message to the unwise.

Wayne

[MCHinson]

Linc400,

Was the "AACA" show that you are referring to a local chapter show, a region show, or a National Meet? Your windows should be up for any National Meet to begin with, as well as any Chapter or Region Meet that I have ever attended. I can't imagine a situation where someone would reach inside a car that had the windows up. (My 1929 Ford does not even have any windows and nobody has ever damaged it.)

I am happy that my experience has been different than yours. I hope you have better luck in the future.

[DAVE A]

We as owners, friends of owners, show field neighbors, judges, Team Captains, etc. need to have each other's backs to help keep the vehicles safe.

Susan;

A number of Crosley owners and myself do exactly that. We are like minded as far as our attitudes with the cars and, with agreement, do to each other's cars just what we do with ours. This allows us to get around to look at cars if we want (however, most of the time, it is just too busy to walk away. we find that people are interested if you just give them the opportunity) I have succeeded in doing that at many shows but occasionally I end up next to a guy who wants to sit in his chair and be left alone. I even had one guy get mad at me because I put kids in my car because "now they will want to sit in mine". Perhaps the solution is, as was suggested, for each owner to post on his car what code of conduct he wants followed. Personally, I cross out the "not" on the do not touch signs!!!

[LINC400]

Linc400,

Was the "AACA" show that you are referring to a local chapter show, a region show, or a National Meet? Your windows should be up for any National Meet to begin with, as well as any Chapter or Region Meet that I have ever attended. I can't imagine a situation where someone would reach inside a car that had the windows up. (My 1929 Ford does not even have any windows and nobody has ever damaged it.)

I am happy that my experience has been different than yours. I hope you have better luck in the future.

I guess it was some sort of local chapter show put on by the AACA, but you did not have to be an AACA member to show your car. Most other cars had their windows down. I had only the drivers side down to minimize people petting the interior, and to prevent my Lincoln brochure from blowing out of the window. After walking past my car a few times and seeing people feeling up the seats, I simply put all windows up and locked it. I have no idea what the problem is, but everyone always has to feel up my seats. I have had other cars with velour seats before, but this is the only one that people can't seem to keep their hands off of. It must have something to do with the color.