My next project? 1921 Packard Coupe.

[Guest cben09]

Speaking of past cars,,,,Have you seen my old R-R silver Ghost,,'24 od Town car,,

Last known to be Red w/black wings,,I t was my daily driver for 5 years,,54000miles about,,Sold through agent,,to a doctor/dentist I think,, It was a pleasure to drive,,,coulda used fw brakes,,,,A FEW times,,,haha,,Ben

[oldcar]

Hi Ben

Without wanting to be offensive I have never owned a Rolls Royce and have never really wanted to own one. A long time ago had a drive of a late teens Silver Ghost, once and that was enough.

The SECOND BEST car that I have ever owned is the 1936 LG45 Lagonda Drophead Coupe. A great car, 100 mph in complete comfort. The BEST car: the one I own now the 1934 Lagonda Rapier two seater. I have owned it since 1978 and unlikely to sell it any time soon.

Other cars on my NEVER want to own list are Bentley and Bugatti and wait for it....... Cadillac.

Bernie J.

Edited January 17, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

While Dave has been slaving away on the preparation of the Packard body for paint, my attention has been diverted, rebuilding the inlet side of the Lagonda Rapier's engine.

For some unaccountable reason it has developed an air leak somewhere between the carburettors (Twin SU) and the cylinder head. This has resulted in an inability to slow the idle speed down to less that 1500 rpm. It usually idles at 800 rpm. Both carbs have been stripped down and checked, the faces of the manifolds checked to make sure that they were flat and the flange of the carbs checked in the same way. There is no excessive wear on the throttle spindles. These were replaced not all that long ago. New gaskets have been cut and the two short sections of rubber hose connecting the balance tube have been replaced. I am now about to go and assemble it all back together Fingers crossed. We have our first event for 2012 at the weekend.

Bernie J.

Edited January 20, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Having got the Lagonda Rapier back together and idling at 800-1000 rpm before lunch I could devote this afternoon to the battery box. This is now folded up out of 1.6mm Aluminium that I found that I could cut satisfactorily with my antique Gilbro long-handled snips. I have lined the box with some mystery board that has been taking up space in my shed for more years than I can remember. It is branded Walkers "Golden Walkertite" It is about 1/4 of an inch thick and should do the job nicely. I have made a timber edge surrounding the top and will now have to wait until the body is back in place to adjust its height as it should just clear the underside of the passenger side floor. I have cut a hole in the side adjacent to the speedo cable fitting on the side of the gear box. Without having a cable it is difficult to see exactly how it should fit. I am still looking for a speedo cable or at least the ends of both the inner and outer.

Bernie J

[Roger Zimmermann]

The SECOND BEST car that I have ever owned is the 1936 LG45 Lagonda Drophead Coupe. A great car, 100 mph in complete comfort.

It was really a nice car!

[DavidMc]

Bernie, I can't help ypou with a speedo cable but if nothing comes to lighgt I will remove mine and get you some details so you can make one.

David

[oldcar]

Thank You David

What I really need is for someone to turn up a set of cable ends. Making a cable is not so difficult, having both ends for both the inner and the outer is the tricky part. The bit in the middle is easy.

Have you finished with the GG ?

Bernie J

Ben

Have you had a chance to look in the corners of all those sheds of yours?

BJ.

Edited January 18, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Another day without any real Packard progress. Spent this morning making some final adjustments to the Lagonda Rapier's throttle linkages and now it is starting "on the button" and ticking over nicely at 800 rpm. Spent this afternoon giving it a through clean and a quick polish. It is remarkable, it was repainted (Freshened up) in 1996 prior to going to England for the FIVA Rally. Since then it has been back to England & Europe in '99, 2004 & 2009 and done countless miles of competitive motoring here in Australia. Over the last 12 months it has covered almost 7.000 miles. Apart from one minor graze on the right rear mudguard caused by backing into a stone wall in the French Alps and the odd stone chip, the paint is almost like new. The wheels are getting a little shabby and maybe need freshening up but as I would need to take it off the road for about two weeks to do that (properly) so they may have to wait. With our mild climate we have (driving) events at least once or twice per month all through the year. Finding suitable 500 X 17 tires is becoming a problem. The Michelin "Comfort S" that are currently on it are no longer available. Hopefully they will last another year or two.

Bernie J.

Edited January 19, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

I have mentioned several times that I am looking for a speedo cable for the Packard. To date apart from David McC's very kind offer to remove the one from his car so He could do some drawings which would enable me to have the necessary ends made I have drawn a complete blank. If all else fails I would really like to purchase (Buy) the ends from an outer (both ends) and an inner (both ends). Armed with these it would be a comparatively simple matter to have a complete cable made. Naturally if by some miracle some one has a complete cable surplus to their requirements I would be extremely interested in buying it. Perhaps one of the more knowledgeable Gentlemen (or Ladies) who have a far grater understanding of all things Packard than I could enlighten me. Is this cable exclusive to 1921 to 23 Single Sixes or are the fittings common to all early (1920s) Packards. Perhaps even to some other makes from the same period????

You will see from the attached photographs that the outer end is a plain push in and clamp male fitting (NO screw thread) 5/8 inch in diam. for both ends. The inner cable has a simple spade fitting on each end. Not actually rocket science.

N.B. The photographs of the speedo are from my file. It is in the process of being restored.

Bernie J.

Edited January 20, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Craig Gillingham]

Bernie, have a cable I would love to get rid of. I think it's actually for a Warner speedometer, but could be adapted. The cable isn't perfect, but is usable. It has no inner cable. The Warner and Waltham have a very similar design for the cable ends.

If that doesn't suit, I have cross section drawings (to scale) of the Waltham speedometer cable ends. You'll be able to figure out the dimensions from those. Very easy for me to scan and email onto you. Also, I've attached a couple of photos of a Waltham speedo setup that was on eBay a few years ago. I kept the photos for future reference.

[oldcar]

Well, talk about "old home week"! First I had an e-mail from Ian Greenlaw who is restoring a 1930s 6 wheel equipped Dodge Sedan. I was able to introduce him to "Dave the Painter" who is now going to paint his car in two or three months time. Then I arrived home from the VSCC BBQ at Albert Park last night to read Craig's post above. Naturally, despite the late hour I shot off an e-mail to him. This morning I received a reply confirming that not only does he indeed live in Melbourne, Australia (not Florida) but he too was at the same BBQ.

As Ian commented it really is a small world. He lives just across the Yarra River about 5 miles from our house. There is another old saying "What goes around comes around" meaning simply if you help some one, someone else will help you, although not usually in the space of 24hours.

Amazing!

Bernie J.

Edited January 20, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

This one is for Roger

While not a car that I would want to own, one that I can appreciate...

A friends 1936 Cadillac Imperial Convertible Sedan.

Bernie J

[Roger Zimmermann]

Thank you Bernie! This is a nice car, but also not one I would like to own: lack of automatic transmission and electric windows!

[oldcar]

I guess that is where we must agree to differ Roger. They are two things that would come last and second last on my list of things that I MUST have in any car. Certainly both the 1996 Peugeot and the 2008 VW have electric windows but the Peug is 5 speed Manual and the VW is 6 speed Manual. The 1986 Alfa also had electric windows using the "had" as in they no longer worked. Thank goodness it had a manual sun roof. It too was a five speed manual. With the Lagonda Rapier 99.9 percent of the time we leave the side screens at home simply because we never use them. When we take it overseas with us, we leave the side screens at home as they take up valuable luggage space.

The Packard will have a little more room and it will have a full set of side screens, but definitely manually operated. It has a manual gearbox too, but only three speeds.

Keep up the good work on your models. They look fantastic but are something that I would never have the patience to do and I do like to be able to drive my cars.

Bernie J

Edited January 22, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

One of my favourite roads in Europe is the Gavia Pass (in the Tyroll). I certainly would not like to drive up it in any Cadillac even with electric windows and automatic transmission. There are probably very very few people reading this who even know of this road, let me just say it really scared one of my extremely "tough" motor bike friends. Much of it is single track with passing places, gravel surface and no guard rails. Oh yes, it is quite steep with lots of hairpin bends too. It makes the Stelvio look like a Sunday drive. But great un-interupted views, IF you are brave enough to look.

Bernie J.

[Roger Zimmermann]

One of my favourite roads in Europe is the Gavia Pass (in the Tyroll). I certainly would not like to drive up it in any Cadillac even with electric windows and automatic transmission. There are probably very very few people reading this who even know of this road....

I would not go there myself with a Cad! By the way, I don't know this road; I don't especially like mountains. You see, there is something for each on this planet; there are even fools who spend hours on a tiny model!

Obviously, we differ a lot: I enjoyed to restore my cars (well, not all the time); driving them is not so important. When I do it (driving), I like to do it in relative comfort, compared to what cars today can offer.

I understand well that this point of view is not necessarily shared by everyone. This hobby would be boring if everyone had the same ideas!

Edited January 22, 2012 by Roger Zimmermann
comments added (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hello

My biggest curse is that I was borne with a very competitive nature. We have just come in from our weekly game of Petanque. That is very competitive and great fun.

However there is nothing I love more than driving my little old (1934) Lagonda! It is so responsive and I feel very much in tune with it. It loves to be driven in the Mountains. I may be crazy but I believe that it "talks" to me all the time. You can tell by the way it performs, it revs so freely and handles so well. It does exactly what I ask of it and vice versa. I believe that there is a special bond between certain sports cars and their enthusiast owners that must be impossible for people who look upon cars as simply a means of transport to understand. Climbing mountain passes becomes an exhilarating game that we play.

Now you all know that I am quite insane... Something that I do not expect many/any of you to understand. Possibly some motorcyclists can, but I doubt that a Harley Davison rider would.

One thing I can say is that I rarely if ever become bored. Except perhaps on long, flat, straight stretches of road, maybe that is because little (Under 1500cc) highly tuned engines hate long periods of constant revs. How do I know this? Because the Lagonda told me so.....

Bernie J.

Edited January 23, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Coming back to the Packard. I love the challenge in restoring cars that any sane person would say are past redemption. Once the restoration is successfully completed it will be time to move on to the next challenge.

Bernie J.

[Larry Schramm]

The Gavia Pass looks like a nice Sunday drive in the sports car. I did not look at the complete video, but what I watched, it was all paved and a retaining wall on the down side.

Now if you want to see a real driving challenge, look at this short jaunt in Bolivia with the guys from Top Gear. Especially look at the video at about 6 minutes 30 seconds. Then we can talk of the big guy on the block/car/truck. :-)

[oldcar]

Hi Larry

Interesting road Larry, what other Vintage & Classic car events do they have in Bolivia? It is a long way to ship the Lagonda to just drive up the one road. Did you take any photographs of you in the Corvette while you were there?

Looking at the recent video of the Gavia Pass they certainly seem to have done some much needed work,although I note that it is still a single lane road with just enough room for the motorcycles to squeeze past oncoming cars, not really enough for a Cadillac. The photo below shows the extent of guard rails when we last drove up it in 2004......

For Roger, is the corner of the map for some of our travels through Switzerland Our route highlighted, and one photo taken on the descent of the Susten Pass (only 2259 Metres) and another taken shortly after during our lunch stop in Wessen with a couple of our "playmates". again taken in 2004. On our last trip in 2009 we concentrated on the Alps in the Savoie (South east France). The Col du Galibier (2556 Metres) etc......... The funny white car in the photographs is our 1934 Lagonda Rapier.

Larry, It is one thing to watch videos from the comfort of your lounge chair, another to ship your car across the world and go out and actually do it.....

Perhaps you would care to come along on our next visit to Europe in 2014. The only proviso is that you bring your pre-WW2 car to drive, all the way, every day. There is no place for "Trailer Queens" on these trips. Usually lasting 3 to 4 months, driving every day. (10 to 15,000 miles total) Sorry! No "sag wagon" or service crew wearing white overalls in a 4wd towing a tandem trailer. Just you, your wife/partner in your car, carrying all your own luggage.

Bernie J

Edited January 23, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

I promise, we wil get back to the Packard just as soon as I can...

Bernie J.

[Larry Schramm]

Bernie,

You are great. I hope that I have your energy and sense of adventure when I am your age. I wish that I would be able to come with you in a couple of years but I think that with two offspring in college will continue to take up all of my disposable income and then some.

As for some of the alpine roads, I can say that they are challenging and also fun to drive. It has been some time since I have been there. I hope to have my wife and I return for more fun and maybe meet you there.

As for the Boliva road, I think it would be a very tactical challenge. My wife thinks I am nuts to even think about that type of trip, but I am usually game for a lot of different experiences.

Keep up the great work on your current project as you inspire the rest of us.

Larry

[Roger Zimmermann]

For Roger, is the corner of the map for some of our travels through Switzerland Our route highlighted, and one photo taken on the descent of the Susten Pass (only 2259 Metres) and another taken shortly after during our lunch stop in Wessen with a couple of our "playmates". again taken in 2004.

Bernie, with what did you afraid the cows? Thank you for the road map; I certainly drove more or less like you during my existance.

I have a good friend who is more or less like you: he loves to drive over mountain roads, mainly in Switzerland. There is one tiny difference: he do that with a 1970 or 71 Cadillac Fleetwood!

We always joke together about his narrow road experiences and my reluctance to mountains!

[oldcar]

Hi Everybody

Dave (the Painter) tells me that he will be spraying the Packard before the end of this week and I should be able to start re-assembly some time next week.

STAND BACK....

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

To All the Aussies who watch this thread, HAPPY AUSTRALIA DAY.....

Bernie J.

[danhar1960]

Goodonya mate,

Avagoodone Bernie !!

Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, !!!!!!!!!!

Danny

[Ian_Greenlaw]

G'day Bernie,

Hope you had a good day yesterday.

Looking forward to seeing your car after Dave is finished with it !

Regards

Ian

[oldcar]

Hi Ian

Sorry, after talking with Dave this afternoon it seems that he will not be painting it until the end of next week. I will keep you informed. Meanwhile I will be going through my list of small parts to be made or mended. Hopefully it is getting shorter.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

So today it reached 36.5 degrees C. what better day to round up all the bits of the speedo that Ben (C Benson) sent to me all those months ago. Having cleaned up the case and all the bits and painted the parts that would have been originally been painted I decided that today was as good as any to put it all back together again. I have not done anything about re doing the numerals on the odometer as once you start on those things where do you stop. All that aside I like things to look their age. I have yet to see the 90 year old lady with the figure and skin of a twenty year old. In the same way I did not attempt to remove the original bevelled edge glass for fear of breaking it. I have simply hand polished the speedo surround with a not too aggressive metal polish.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Following my policy of picking one job and following it through to its conclusion and having re assembled the speedo yesterday todays job was the steering box.

I had previously cleaned up the ninety odd years of gunk and could now dismantle it in relatively pristine if not surgically clean conditions.

I should add at this point I have absolutely no higher qualifications except a degree from the School of Hard Knocks. Having said that over the years I have dismantled most forms of steering box found in British cars. Worm & Wheel, Bishop Cam, Rack & Pinion you name it but I had never before worked on a Worm and SPLIT NUT. I had looked at the photocopied Single Six Information book that David McC had very kindly sent to me some time ago.

Now I am sure that dozens of you with vastly more experience in all things Packard, than I, are sitting back saying "So What! Piece of cake" Now that IT is all back together I tend to agree except that it must be said "What a brilliant piece of engineering!"

I (being basically ignorant about Packards) don't know when this form of steering box was introduced or for how long it was current. In extreme lay-man's terms it is brilliant in its simplicity. The worm (thread) on the end of the steering column is cut with a right hand thread interposed over a left hand thread. Sliding inside the steering box are the two halves of the "nut", one half has a right hand thread the other half has a left hand thread. (Are you still with me?) As the steering wheel is turned the worm is rotated causing half the nut to travel in one direction (up) and the other half in the opposite direction (down) Turn the steering wheel in the other direction and the travel of the two halves of the nut are reversed (all very simple)

The half of the nut moving downwards bears onto a rocker which in turn causes the cross shaft to rotate. The steering arm is attached to the end of this cross shaft, and working directly on the drag link, which in turn, turns the front wheels in the desired direction.

The precision of this all depends firstly on the accuracy of machining the components and the degree of wear in the box.

The main adjustment controls the degree of end float in the worm (Steering column) Fortunately as with virtually everything that I have looked at there was no perceptible wear and it was a simple matter of cleaning the internals lubricating and re-assembling.

For all the technically minded people out there I am including the drawing out of the March 1922 Information Book. for your convenience I have coloured the two halves of the "nut" in contrasting colours.

Bernie J.

N.B. There is no provision for "power" assistance.

Edited January 29, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

The words of the song say "little things mean a lot...." in our hobby this often translates into a "lot of time". Today I have been working on the control tubes that go down through the centre of the steering column. These are swaged at the bottom end to accommodate the bevel gears that operate the control rods to the Mixture (gas) and Ignition timing (spark). With the Packards long spell sitting in a customs "bond store" on the docks these had fairly successfully rusted together. I had managed to separate them some time ago but had inflicted some extra damage in the process. The result of all this, despite being cleaned of all rust inside and out, they would not go back together, so todays task has been rectifying this. The outer of the three tubes had been slightly crushed. Even after I had "panel beaten" the tube out, heating it to red heat and then carefully driving a piece of 1/2 inch rod down inside the length of the tube. Because of the swage in the other (bottom) end all this had to be done from the top. After doing this the rod would go "all the way" but the control tubes steadfastly baulked about 3/4 of the way down due to a high spot. Having tried everything else including bronze welding a 1/2 inch drill bit onto the end of the rod I am now attempting to grind the hi-spot out with valve grinding paste on the end of the rod. Very slow but I will get there eventually. Once done I can complete assembling controls at the bottom of the steering box. I cannot install this onto the chassis until the body is replaced hopefully in 7 to 10 days time. Slow-slow-quick-quick-slow or something like that.

I am sure that the smart people would have an expanding 1/2'' diam ream with a 4 foot long handle This of course would be less than 1/2 inch in outside diameter so that it could be pushed down the tube.

I understand that this arrangement was changed for the next series cars along with the introduction of the eight cylinder cars. I wonder why?

Bernie J.

Edited January 30, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

It is amazing just how quickly three hours go and on the other hand, how much you can do in the same three hours.

The control tubes are in and working nicely and having some time to spare I decided that the steering box and column were looking decidedly second hand.

I had painted them previously when I first cleaned up the exterior of the box so that they would not go rusty while waiting for me to give them some TLC.

Having sanded down the steering box and stripped all the paint off the column. The box now has a new coat of shinny black. The dash is to be the body colour, a very dark brown. The hand brake, gear lever, brake and clutch pedals are nickel plated. Steering wheel spokes and small hand controls are polished aluminium, all as original. The question is do I take the outer tube of the column and have it nickel plated or paint it black.

Bernie J.

[Guest cben09]

Hi Bernie,,good to see progress,,,,or at least hear about it,,

Steering collum tubes were always black,,,

Change in controls in '27 I think,,

The change in the small tubes was: left hand spark lever was changed to

control the lichts,

Spark and choke then in holes in the dash below the fuel guage,,

Small details,,,but if it helps someone to find the details,,,saves hours ,,maybee,,,

All for now,,,Ben

[Earl B.]

Bernie, don't make it too shiney...Packard used a semi or satin gloss on chassis and mechanical parts. Don't forget, too, that the underside of the hood is black... Keep up he good work, B

[oldcar]

What a crazy climate we have here in Melbourne (Australia, not Florida),

Yesterday we sweltered with a humid 37degrees C. today it is a chilly 19degrees C.

Having listened to my two good friends advice, today I have given the outer tube of the steering column two coats of etch primer, dry sanding it back between coats hopefully I will be able to get one coat of black on before shutting up shop for the day. If not there is always tomorrow.

Bernie J.

[Ian_Greenlaw]

Hi Berine,

Its hard to get use to isn't it !

I was going to do some work on the Dodge but by 10am I died !!! Too hot so went inside and looked through my car books.

Keep up the posts, I'm enjoying reading your progress.

Regards

Ian

[oldcar]

Thank you Ian

Today I took a step backwards. Having painted the steering column yesterday and had it looking almost perfect when I went to take it down from where it was hanging from a nail in a beam in the garage roof, of course I bumped it! With a resulting scratch about four inches long. No Problem I thought I will just give that area a light sand and touch it up. Oh dear! Wrong, the bl**dy paint has "fried up". Now I have the choice of waiting a week and giving it another light sand AFTER it has dried properly or strip the whole lot off and start again. I think I will sleep on that one.

Bernie J.

Edited February 1, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Roger Zimmermann]

If I understand right, you are using either a spray can or air drying paint. On my 2 last cars I did, I used only 2-stage paint (paint and hardener). Even with that, a week is necessary to have a paint completely hardened.

The inconvenient: prepare some paint for just one part is a waste of resources plus then the cleaning of the paint gun!

[oldcar]

. On my 2 last cars I did, I used only 2-stage paint (paint and hardener). Even with that, a week is necessary to have a paint completely hardened.

Hi Roger

I have already sent you an e-mail explaining in part why it is necessary that I use spray can paint on small and individual parts. I am sure that a lot of people without the benefit of a full spray booth, compressor & etc do the same. However I find it difficult to understand why you earlier queried that my painter, Dave, preferred to leave his work for a week to harden before sending the job out.

Bernie J

[oldcar]

Sorry

I have been out most of today doing a route survey for a VSCC "Run" with a friend in his 1937 MG TA. An interesting drive but I am not about to go out and buy one.

Bernie J.