I just need opinions on my 1937 Pontiac

[Guest bofusmosby]

I just had my car delivered the other day, and I am still getting to know it from the inside/out. I was told that the car was discovered parked behind a barn back in the early 80's, and the guy I bought the car from was told it had been there since the early 60's, and maybe even longer. The car was purchased in the 80's and rebuilt (to a degree), and had only been driven a few thousand miles since then. OK, here is my first question:

According to the odometer reading, it is showing just a little over 30,000 miles. The car had never been restored before, so does this mean that the car actually went for 130,000 miles, or was the car used very little, and the actual mileage showing is correct? As far as condition goes, the engine was siezed up from sitting there all those years, so the guy who bought the car had the engine rebuilt.

OK, here is my second question, but first, some back-ground. This is the first 6 volt car I have ever owned, so I only have the newer 12 volt cars to compare this to. The battery in the car was 12 years old, and pretty much dead. I bought a new battery, and the car started right up. That being said, my question is about the starter. On this car, it has a "starter pedal", and when I step on the pedal, the starter Slowly starts turning the engine, then speeds up and the engine starts. Am I dealing with a bad starter? (I found a starter repair kit on Ebay for $9.95 that consists of both bushings, and all 5 brushes, so I bought it just in case.) OR, am I just not acustomed to the charastics of a 6 volt system? Is this normal?

I know that I could also be dealing with a wiring problem, so I am going to use my volt meter to check and see what the actual voltage is at the battery (when starting) compared to what the actual voltage is at the starter. This way, I'll know if I am getting too much of a voltage drop in the wiring.

I would really appreciate any and all opinions on this. Come on guys, I'm just getting into this, and with me and old cars, there is a lot of ignorance involved. I promise that over time, my questions be get a lot better.

[Larry Schramm]

Sounds like a cool car. Can you post some pictures? On a 6 volt system the most important thing is the condition and size of the cables from the battery to the starter. They need to be big (original size) and clean.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Hre are a fe photos that the seller sent to me. I am going to be taking some photos tomorrow to be posted.

[Larry Schramm]

WOW

[Rusty_OToole]

It is very unlikely for a car of that age to have covered 130,000 miles. Normal life of a car was about 80,000. To cover 100,000 was exceptional. The average car covered 5000 miles a year or less.

30,000 would be on the low side. 130,000 would be very high. It should be easy to tell the difference, in one case the car will seem to have an average amount of wear or less, in the other case it will be completely beat with hardly anything of the original car intact. Your car looks like a very well preserved low mile survivor.

6 volt starters turn slower than 12 volt. As long as the car starts it's OK.

A fully charged, 6 volt battery should show 6.6 volts. When the starter is operating it could suck the voltage down to 5 or less.

6 volt systems are more sensitive to resistance. So it is important to keep all the connections clean and tight. Don't overlook the ground connections.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Jim, a neat car.

As stated above, the cables are VERY important. If someone has replaced them with 12v vables, there will be low amperage. Your cable from battery to starter should be nearer the size of your thumb than the size of your little finger. Also, if someone has replaced the battery cable end with a clamp on one, do your self a favor and replace the cable. A good place to get the proper size cable is a repair shop for alternator/starters. Some farm stores may carry them as a lot of old tractors, etc are 6 volt.

Ben

[junkyardjeff]

My 50 Chrysler started like a 12 volt in warmer weather after I put in new battery cables and made sure it had good grounds,if it still has original looking cables replace them as they will corrode inside the insulation. If it has the original braided ground cable replace it with a regular cable as I think that was the problem area with my Chrysler.

[West Peterson]

In regards to mileage:

1. The speedometer cable is easy to disconnect on a car of that age, so the odometer reading is not necessarily correct.

2. If there is a lot of pedal wear (gas, brake clutch), more than likely it is higher than 30,000.

3. Check other wear items that you know have not been replaced/rebuilt, i.e. carpet, toe boards, upholstery, front end items such as tie rod ends, steering links, steering box, shocks, etc. At 50,000 miles, a lot of these items would probably be ready to be replaced, but not at 30,000.

4. If the car generally feels "tight", steering, shocks, etc., and the wear items seem to look pretty nice, it's possible it's a low-mileage car.

[Rusty_OToole]

For a 1937 car 30,000 miles was about the upper limit for "newness" or low miles.

Many items might come up for renewal between 20,000 and 30,000 miles. Generator, starter, carburetor, brakes, tires, even a ring and valve job. Pedal pads steering wheel and upholstery would be showing wear but not worn out.

By 130,000 the motor would have had 2 or 3 overhauls and one complete rebuild. Most working parts would have been replaced or act like they needed to be replaced. Everything else would be loose as a bucket of bolts.

Unless the speedo cable was broken at some point my guess is the car only has 30000 on it, just going by the condition shown in the photos.

West you don't want to judge a Pontiac by Packard standards. Not to take away from Pontiac but the senior Packards would have about double the life of a Pontiac. To be fair, they also cost more than double the price when new.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Thank you guys for your opinions on this car. BUT, to be completely fair, I need to elaborate at bit on the car. The car was re-painted 10-15 years ago. All of the interior was re-done at that time (seats, headliner, door panels, carpet). I was told that there was no rust anywhere, except for in the tool compartment in the trunk. The original wiring is showing its age, but for the most part, is not falling apart (except for a few places). The wood-grained paint on the dash is worn through in a few places, but most of it still looks OK. The car still has the same generator and starter that it had when it was parked in the field for all those years. The engine was rebuilt, as well as the carborator, and the brakes were completely replaced. Also, the water pump started leaking just before I bought it, so it now has a new water pump.

My question would be, will the interior of the car age badly sitting in a field for 25+ years? This is why I am wondering if the car really has 130,000 miles, instead of 30,000. I must say though, the car runs and drives nice. Not bad for a 73 year old car.

[JFranklin]

Sitting in a field with field mice?

[Guest bofusmosby]

Sitting in a field with field mice?

Thats a valid point.

[junkyardjeff]

No need to worry about the mileage on a car that old,if somethings not worn from mileage it will be from age. The mileage on my 37 chevy p/u showed 96,000 but the speedo had been disconnected and when I got it hooked up the odometer did not work so who knows the actual mileage.

[Rusty_OToole]

If exposed to sunshine by being parked outdoors the cloth upholstery will fall apart after 20 years even if the car is never driven. Starting with the back of the rear seat. This goes for any car made before synthetic materials came in, about 1955.

Leather upholstery, I'm not so sure. But if left outside, I think it would be done in after 20 years too.

[eric_b_1937]

I would assume that the mileage is 130,000 until you are proven wrong by the overall condition of seldom replaced mechanical wear components like rear end gears, transmission, engine, etc. Not the regular maintenance items on the car like starters, generators, carbs, etc. If this car was used from new through the war and into the fifty's the car could very well have over 100,000 miles. If it was parked in a dry dark barn for most of it's life this would preserve the interior. You would need detailed records to know how long it sat out side and how it was used. Gather all the info you can and estimate the real mileage.

[JFranklin]

Steering gear slop, pedal pads, engine bore, brake drum wear are all good places to check to help ascertain milage. when a car gets ready to put out to pasture these things rarely get any attention.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Also wear on accelerator pedal, steering wheel, gearshift, e-brake handle, window garnish moulding where your left arm rests when driving with the window open... all the areas that receive contact with the driver...

Also check all the door hinges, latches, strikers, dovetails etc: a high-mileage car will likely have worn-out/sagged drivers' door hinges, and lots of wear on the latch mechanism... these parts are often overlooked during the average cosemetic restoration.

A vehicle with 30,000 miles should still have fairly tight front suspension (although hardened grease will mask worn parts until you put a few miles on the car...).

UV exposure from sunlight will quickly fade and "dry-rot" fabric interiors, so unless the car was in a shaded spot, your interior may start to wear quickly... maybe not...

Edited May 4, 2010 by De Soto Frank (see edit history)

[Guest bofusmosby]

Some of these I believe I can answer. The pedal pads are in pretty good shape. I am unsure if the starter pedal had a pad, but if it originally did, then that is missing. The steering wheel seems to be in decent shape. The doors close tight, except the drivers door doesn't line up quite right. From looking at the service manual, "body shims" will be needed to take care of that. On the wood-grain paint on the doors, there is some that is missing from a persons are laying across it. The steering seems to be tight, with no noticable play. The emergency brake handle looks in good shape, but I am not sure if it is working correctly. The door latches have some wear, but not extreme. On the engine bore, and the brake drums, these have been re-done, so I can't answer that.

In the next few weeks, I will be getting the title changed over, and also getting the tags and registration, so when they ask the mileage, I guess I'll just tell them what the odometer says. How would I go about researching this car? The old guy I bought it from doesn't remember too much, except what he ahs already told me. I believe that the car was always a Montana car, until now. Is there a place I can call up in Montana to find out the names of all the other owners, along with the dates etc..?

Thank you for your responses on this. I appreciate every one of them. You guys (and Gals) are GREAT!!

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Got any seasoned antique car veterans near you ?

Many folks who have been around old cars for a while can recognize a 30,000 mile car from a 130,000 mile example....

Can't imagine to there's much financial incentive to shave 100,000 miles off a '37 Pontiac...

A buddy has a '51 Hudson Super-Six with just 30,000 miles on it... got parked in 1959, according to the remnants of the Pennsylvania inspection sticker in the windshield.

It needs everything, but it is a legit 30,000 mile car.

[Rusty_OToole]

Open the driver's door a few inches. Lift it up and down. How much slop is in the hinges?

Now do the same to the left rear door. If they are nearly the same the car has 30,000 miles. If there is a lot more play in the driver's door it has 130,000 or was used for a pizza delivery wagon.

Pedal pads or upholstery don't mean a lot because they can be replaced. Wear on the window surrounds is more significant if they have not been repainted.

On a genuine 30,000 mile car there should be slight or no visible wear on the driver's door, none on the other doors.

If there is much wear on the driver's door and some on the passenger side it's high miles.

In this case by wear, I mean the paint is worn away or worn through.

Don't forget the windshield. First is it original? Check for the trade mark in the corner. If it is original, at 30,000 it will have a few pinpricks from stones. At 130,000 it will have a frosted appearance. This will only be obvious when driving directly into the sun, with a clean windshield.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Rusty

I find no play in any of the door hinges. All doors are tight. This also goes for the door latches. Now, on the door surrounds, that is a different story. As you know, the garnish molding was painted with the wood-grain finish. The wood-graining was painted in layers. On the drivers door, a lot of these layers are worn through where a persons arm would rest on the side, but not down to the metal. The passenger door also has some wear at this point, but not as much as the drivers door. The back garnish moldings are completely in tact. No wear-through on any layers. I believe that the windshield had been replaced by the previous owner.

De Soto Frank

As far as financial incentive, well, I definately didn't get this car as an investment, and I have no plans to fix it up for re-sale. I was just surprised to see the odometer reading, and wondered if this could be the correct mileage. If this were to be the correct mileage shown, then of all the cars I have bought over the years, THIS would be the lowest mileage car I have EVER owned in my life! Its also 30 plus years older then the second oldest car (1968 Cougar) I have ever owned.

Eugene

Thats all interesting, but I guess you didn't read the question.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Jim,

There are cars and trucks out there that are over forty years old, and have less than 10,000 miles on them...

A few years a go, I was a a brass car cruise-night in Quakertown, PA, and there was a unrestored 1913 Cadillac showing just around 3,000 miles on its odometer.

There was no question this was original mileage. The car had been tucked away in a barn in upstate NY since before the Depression... last tag / registration was from around 1921.

Present owner knew of it for years, and finally got his chance at it at the estate sale.

Had had to have original wooden wheels rebuilt, as they had sunk into the dirt barn floor, and rotted. The rest is completely original.

Will post picks when I find them.

If your door mouldings are worn through the wood-grain, but not down to bare metal, that sounds like 30,000 miles... they would be through to bare metal "at the elbows" on a 130,000 mile car.

I'd title it by the odometer reading... some states make the mileage exempt over a certain age.

[Guest 1hooligan]

Any car of that age, sitting in a field, the interior would be history, in shreds. With the window up, it would dry out, as most interior materials back then were wool. With a window down, mildew would have a field day, and there would be rust outs in the floor pans. In 1985 I purchased a 1935 chevrolet standard. The speedo showed 33,000 miles. All original black paint, including green pinstripe, and mohair interior. Now the license plates showed last registered in 1946. It had been in a garage, under a green army tarp, since then. Some small parts were missing, a couple of hub caps, etc. Trunk was locked, and no key. when opened there they sat in a cardbard box, along with five quarts of oil, and a hand written receipt. The bottom line is who cares, the car is wonderful, and a treasure no matter what the miles are. Assume that there will be a lot of rebuilding if you intend to drive it regularly. Ps, make sure the shocks have oil in them.

[Guest bofusmosby]

1hooligan

I plan on checking the oil in the shocks soon. Here's a question for you. What kind of oil do I use for the shocks? Also, will it be compatable with the oil that is already in there? I know that to add oil to the rear shocks, the shocks have to be removed. Do they also have to be removed to check the oil level? Now that I think of it, in the rear shocks, all of the oil must be drained, and exactely 6 1/2 oz's (I think thats what the book says) have to be put in each one. Will the residue of the old fluid cause any problems with the new fluid that I put in?

Frank

I can't wait to see the photos you have of that car!

[Rusty_OToole]

It sounds to me like you have a genuine low mileage vehicle. I never thought it wasn't to tell you the truth.

Your shocks need "Knee Action Fluid". This was last available from parts stores during the Eisenhower administration.

Hydraulic jack oil is a good substitute. I think motorcycle fork oil would work too, and comes in different weights for "tuning" your suspension but I don't know if anyone has tried it.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Your shocks need "Knee Action Fluid". This was last available from parts stores during the Eisenhower administration.

Anybody have a spare time machine I can borrow for a few minutes???

[Guest 1hooligan]

Having just gone thru my shocks on the 1936 chevrolet truck, here is what I found. In most cases you either have oil, are they are bone dry. This truck has 112K varified miles. I removed them from the truck, cleaned them on the outside, and replaced the arm connector bushings. UNDER NO CASE REMOVE THE PLATE FROM THE SIDE OF THE SHOCK. There is a big spring in there that could cause major damage to you!!! I turned the shock upside down in a vice, with the filler screw removed, and worked the arm until it was as dry as possible. Depending on how cold the weather gets in your neck of the neighborhood, will dictate which oil to use. As you are in florida, use higher weight oil, say 50 weight. I used 30-50, as we are a mile high, and a tempeture span from 15 to 95 degrees. Lots of the old shocks use leather seals, so let them sit and soak a couple days when finished. Just work the shock arm up and down, you will loose about half each time, eventually it will be full.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Anybody have a spare time machine I can borrow for a few minutes???

Jim,

While you're back there, will you grab a couple quarts of "MoPar Super Fluid-Drive Fluid" for me ?

:D

Frank

(PS: going to take a little time to find the pics of the Cadillac, but I'm working on it ! )

[Guest De Soto Frank]

How about 94 years-old and un-restored ?

These are pics of the COMPLETELY ORIGINAL ( except for restored wheels ) 1913 Cadillac. This car was originally dark blue. Pics were taken at Brass in Bucks 2007, where they had a "Brass Cruise" at the TGIFriday's in Quakertown, PA.

About 40 pre-1918 cars showed-up that evening, all of them tour cars, but this one was my favorite.

Car was stored in a barn since the mid-1920's. Top, upholstery, nickel plating are all original. The Central NY Auto-Club badge on the radiator is from 1922.

BTW - pics were taken with a 50 year-old camera: an Exakta SLR from1955...

Edited May 11, 2010 by De Soto Frank (see edit history)