Diminsihed value

[gossp]

On the very last sunny and salt free day of 2009 I was in an accident in my '66 Chrysler 300. The Chrysler is an unrestored and well taken care of example. The damage was relatively minor, to the tune of a three inch deep by foot and a half square to the rear quarter. Nailed me right in between the horizontal trim pieces, leaving them untouched. I took it to a local restoration/hotrod shop and the insurance company denied their quote. I admit, it was a big quote.

They sent an inspector who came up with a number lower than earl sheib would throw out. 18% of what my shop asked for, in fact.

The car sat outside at the shop for a month while they and I argued with the insurance company.

I have now returned my car home, accepting that a resolution is not right around the corner. This will most likely end up in court, so I need to have a total price tag for all repairs before they begin. Also, I believe I am owed compensation for having a vehicle that a magnet will not stick to. Most of you have heard of diminished value claims, but that is something you do after the repairs are done. I will need to guestimate the numbers before work starts. I will most likely be having auto appraise out of Michigan establish the numbers for me, but it is late on a Friday and I have all weekend to let it fester before I can do anything else, so... I thought I'd pick the brains of my friends in the hobby.

In negotiating the purchase of a vehicle, how would knowledge of a repair to the body alter your spending. Quantifying that might be fun in fact... how much less would you have spent on the last antique car you bought if you knew a welded in panel had been hit in recent history.

Obviously, I'm going to have to repaint the car now... do you think a judge would agree that painting a car should be part of the claim as 44 years of patina cannot be duplicated?

Also, feel free to use this space to gripe about how insurance companies have ruined the world. I am all ears.

[MarkV]

ok, who do you go through? Did someone hit you or did you hit them? here in ca you can take your car wherever you want for work

[MarkV]

pics of the damage? and how much was the damage? how much did they say they would pay?

[msmazcol]

Here is my humble opinion. If you find a quality body shop they should be able to straighten that panel with very little filler needed. The steel of that era is of the can be fixed time. That same body shop should be able to do a reasonable job simulating the factory finish including some aging. I would not paint the whole car because of one mishap. Even a true survivor car is expected to have had "some" stuff happen to it over the years. Your feeling that the car has been devalued so bad are due to a broken heart after the event. Don't over react. Find a person that can do a proper job fixing it and all will be well.

Contact your insurance company and read the fine print in your policy. At this point you might have to bite the bullet a bit and kick in on the repair.

After that consider a different company that may "understand" better next time which will probably never happen again.

Good luck

[gossp]

I'll get a pic up when I drag the camera out of the car. The shop gave a quote of $8500.00, which was to replace the quarter. I was trying to stay out of it at that time. The insurance company told me to take it to a shop and they would pay the bill, so I dropped it off and gave the shop the fax number to send a bill.

The insurance company offered $1440.00.

This is the other guys insurance company as he hit me. I know that lowballing non-customer claims is what they are supposed to do, I just cannot believe they have kept it up so long.

I got another quote from a regular body shop, not a restoration shop, just to see what going rate would be and it came to $3400.00, at which point the insurance company upped the offer to $1640.00.

[trimacar]

Well, my two cents, replacing a quarter panel is pretty extreme for a dent. As mentioned, lots of metal there, a good body man could tap it out, and essentially end up with a repair with no filler, just fill primer.....anyone who said replace the quarter panel is taking the easy way out (parts changer mentality)......

[JustDave]

hello gossp

lets start from the begining,whos carrying liability on this incident your ins or the otherguys,if your a claimant against the other company then you have no signed contract with them,do you have a collector car ins,also there are alot of good metalmen in the trade that are not working in restoration shops,because a shop writes an estimate its not 1 of the commandments,alot of shops think because they work on specialty cars they can charge what ever they want,a 10 hour repair is a ten hour repair weather its on a mercedes or a model a ,if the prevailing labor rate is x amount they will be a little flexible up an down,but if there labor rate is 30 percent higher there not going to pay it,did you make a deal with the body shop to not pay your deductible did you ask for a cash rebate from the body shop if so the shop has to make it up somewhere,as for a complete paint the ins is only responsible for the damaged area,ive seen ins companies rebate for paint repairs directly to the customer because a shop couldnt refinish to standards,remember ins companies are responsible to repair to industry standards only,and to pre accident condition,or compensate as deemed necessary,sentimental value sheds no light on repairs, this is probably what you didnt want to hear but ive seen it happen over an over in my 40 years in a collision repair shops,good luck and remember the squeaky wheel gets the oil,each state has a department of ins,if you honestly feel your being treated in bad faith file a complaint, but never give up or they win

good luck dave

[gossp]

It is the other guys insurance we are dealing with. I actually just got the car and wanted to do some things with it before having an appraisal and collector insurance put on it so I had (dumb dumb dumb) liability only at the time of the accident.

The body shop I took it to, also a good metal guy, calls it a thirty eight hour repair, paintwork included. They also charged a huge number for materials with intentions of buying old stock paint.

The insurance company keeps going back to wanting me to take it to a "preferred" shop, but the only one in my county is operated by people I wouldn't trust to oil the chain on my bicycle.

I'm convinced that I'm going to paint it. It was one of those cars that most would say paint and purist say leave alone... I got knocked off the fence with this event. I'd settle for a good metal repair on the ins companies dime and them tossing me a bone for some materials, but they didn't put that on the table and I can't take wheeling and dealing to the courtroom.

Per one persons remarks, no I didn't ask for a cash rebate and as I am the third party there is no deductible.

[Guest palosfv3]

Please read the following and research the links posted. You are correct that DV is an part of the loss but there are some states that dont recognize DV. Insurance companies steadfastly refuse DV because of precedent set. If they paid you they would owe to all . Regardless its a sticky subject. There has been success collecting it but its like fighting a bear for a piece of meat.

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Third Party Claims: A third party claim is where the other person's insurance is involved as opposed to your own. Please understand that your claim is actually against the at fault party/person and not their insurance company. As such, the insurance company cannot dictate anything - not the repair shop, not the repair methodology, not how much is paid - nothing. The reason for this is because there is no contract in force. In third party claims, Tort Law is the controlling law (instead of Contract Law as in the case of a first party claim). Although overly simplistic, Tort Law basically protects you. A person does not have the right to make you suffer, whether physically or financially (the law is much more complicated).

The reason the other persons insurance becomes involve is because of the liability portion of their Contract of Insurance. Generally, this portion of the "policy" will say something to the effect of "The company will pay on behalf of the insured all sums which the insured becomes obligated to pay as damages arising from: a) bodily injury …..; injury or destruction of property; which are payable under the terms of this policy". In other words, insurance protects the person who purchased the contract. The insurance company is obligated to pay the damages up to the limits of the coverage. If someone causes damage to your property due to negligence, they are personally responsible to the injured party (Tort Law). If they have an insurance contract that covers this loss, the insurer must protect them financially and pay for the damages (Contract Law). While in the case of an automobile collision, it may seem as though the claimant (NOT at fault party) is at the mercy of the insurance company, this simply isn't the case. A person cannot be bound by a contract they were not a party to. In other words, the only reason the insurance company is involved is to pay the damages suffered by the claimant that are owed by the insured. THERE IS NO CONTRACT IN EFFECT BETWEEN THE CLAIMANT AND THE INSURANCE COMPANY. In fact, a claimant doesn't have to settle for inferior aftermarket parts, in the vast majority of cases is entitled to a rental vehicle immediately upon suffering the loss, and can choose any shop and repair methods they desire to have the repairs made (within reason). The insurance company can NOT dictate anything to a claimant. They have no authority, the sole role and purpose of the insurance company in a third party claim is to pay the bill.

Frequently, insurance representatives will tell a claimant a different story however. They would have the vehicle owner believe that their (the insurance company's) decisions are binding. This is not true. Tort Law essentially states that the at-fault party owes the claimant. The at-fault party's Contract of Insurance provides protection to the at fault party. There is nothing more to it than just that. The truth of the matter is that a third party claimant has complete control over the repair process, not the negligence party's insurance company.

Do not succumb to false statements made by an insurance representative. A claimant doesn't have to satisfy the insurance company, (other than as required by state rules). A claimant has the right to have their vehicle restored to pre-loss condition - AND VALUE. This is where Diminished Value comes in.

Stop Steering Information

Collision Consulting - Diminished Value Claim Assistance - Automobile Insurance Claim Help

rules

The CCRE

This should keep you busy reading.

Who is the insurance company your dealing with ? There are good insurance companies and then there are the substandard companies who can be the most difficult . There are some major insurance companies that think they are one of the good ones but act like the substandards. Resolving a claim with an insurance company is like doing homework with a pair of 8 year old twins that dont want to do homework. Many times the carrier acts with the same logic as the kids. They hope you will get fustrated and give in to them. You need to know how to keep the kids accountable. Knowing the assignment ( insurance laws and what is applicable), The teacher ( Who is the supervisor )., Ect.....

Keep in touch. There is more relevant information I know of but it may be best to send in a PM or Fax.

[JustDave]

gossp

the reason i asked about the deductible or the cash back is because ive seen it happen so many times,if you are the claimant you have the right to take it to the shop of your choice,they have the right to inspect it the shop will usually write an estimate,they do not low ball a vehicles est because of being a claimant if the car is in the shop they will try an negotiate a settlement,its up to the shop weather its accepted or not if you let them inspect the vehicle at your residence then they will likely low ball the est,remember the ins must pay you the claimant not the repair shop at that point they will tell you to have the shop call when you drop off the vehicle regarding any supplement,that way if you decide to repair it yourself or not at all they save money,ive seen ins companies do alot of unethical things but they seem to always skate by,if you will please post pictures of the damage,you said the est showed 38 hours repair,qtr paint time is usually 2-3 hours since they didnt use clear coat at that time no clear coat can be charged unless you can prove that with todays paint it would be necessary,r&i time of mldgs lights bumpers etc 3-4-5- hours that leaves 30 hours for repair of the qtr,in all my years in the body shop i have never been payed 30 hours for a qtr repair,i dont know about your state but the old paints are illeagel here in calif,i believe your car was finished in enamel or acrylic enamel,if acrylic enamel is available then no clear coat would be necessary,the shop would show an invoice an be payed the invoice an a fair markup,for years i strugeled in the body shop i would not accept a direct repair,i did very little advertising i said let word of mouth be my advertisingthen the ins companies started trying to send everything to there direct repair shops and it got even harder, after17 years i finally agreed to do a direct repair with a very upstanding ins co (so i thought)first they came an negotiated a discount on metal labor then came back an negotiated a discount on paint labor then they capped the paint materials then it was frame labor an mechanical discunts,then they wanted us to use there estimating program,the last straw was when they said that my office staff would have to do computer work for them because they had cut back,after bouncing the ins co things went somewhat back to a normal struggle,since that time i sold the shop the new owner asked me to stay on for 6 months that was 3 years ago the economy went south and i havent been able to leave,remember the vehicle repair is personal to you, its business to them,again i stress if you feel they are being unethical call the dept of ins in your state and file a complaint dave

[Restorer32]

Actually $1500 (at most) seems about right for the damage you describe. "Old stock paint"? Ridiculous. Sounds to me like this "restoration shop" was looking to get rich off this one job which you describe as "minor damage". In my opinion the insurance company is treating you fairly.

[gossp]

I don't know where he got the "old stock" paint terminology, but he got the pricing out of the chrysler section in hemmings.

[gossp]

Some pics, I am no photographer.

[Guest moxie1]

Hard to tell from the pic. But I have a friend that does paintless dent removal, I've seen him fix things much worse than that. Maybe someone out near you could look at it.

[Guest windjamer]

After looking at your pics. I think I agree with Restorer, but heres my story.

I was involved in a minor accident with a VIP of a major local co. He was at fault, was ticketed and paid a small fine. His insurance co. refused to pay for the damage saying maby I was partly at fault. (Guess I should not have been there.) I told them I could not afford to fight them,BUT I could sue there insured and they could explane to him AND his co.why he had to go to court. I rec. a check for the full amount of damage that day.

[LINC400]

Sounds to me like you have one estimate. And the insurance company also has one estimate. You need to get at least 3 estimates of your own. That will tell you which of the two, yours or the insurance, is full of it. Also, if you take this to court, the judge will be much more swayed in your favor if you have 3 estimates at your price as opposed to one low ball from the insurance co. Sometimes just the threat of taking it to court with three or more estimates will get the insurance co. to cough up the cash.