Gary_N Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Ok, I need help again, as usual. My Yoda story is turning into quite the saga...the details of which will be spared so as not to bore. Anyway, long and short; new brakes; drums turned; new wheel cylinders; lines cleaned; hoses replaced;of course new fluid; rebuilt master; etc.I adjusted the brakes per the manual ( I think). The manual says to expand the pads until it takes two hands to turn the wheel. I did not make it difficult to turn. Bled the brakes. Actually bought a reverse bleeding system which is very cool -- and a little messy but I have a great pedal. It almost seems too good.Anyway, I took Yoda out around drive and the brakes bite big time. I mean you have to stand on them and still its very hard to stop even like at 10 MPH. So, what could I have possibly done wrong?? Anyone??Thanks in advance for any help!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Did you ever back off the adjustment? I wonder if the brakes are overheating and fading because they are scrubbing on the drums all the time?Also do you know what material the brake shoes are made of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_N Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 Hey John. Long time no talk. I didn't get a chance to heat the pads. It would hardly stop pulling it out of the garage. I do plant to recheck the adjustment tomorrow though. I'm thinking a little loose is better than tight.Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_N Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 John, forgot to add; not sure about the pad material. I bought them from cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 GaryI had the same problem HERE.If you have some old shoes, take them to your local brake/clutch re-builder and tell them your problem. They can supply lining that will stop the car.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_N Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 I guess I should search old posts first.This is very dis-heartening. I have purchased a lot of new parts that I can't use or have to replace. OK, I'm not the only one but this is getting old.Napa here I come.Thanks!Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Hey John. Long time no talk. I didn't get a chance to heat the pads. It would hardly stop pulling it out of the garage. I do plant to recheck the adjustment tomorrow though. I'm thinking a little loose is better than tight.GaryHey Gary. I have followed your threads on Yoda but have not responded much since I have little experience with 50's. Your posts remind me of my 56 a number of years ago. One thing after another and frustration trying to get it roadable inbetween all the problems. I hope you get all this straightened out without much more problems. If it's any consolation, when I had this similar rough time, it seems all of a sudden the car started to straighten out. Seems the more I drove it the better it became. And I'm not sure if this is the right procedure or not for adjusting brakes but it's what I learned and always have done:Start by backing off one adjuster wheel all the way. Then count the clicks while you adjust the brake and spin the tire by hand. When you hear the scraping, hit the brake pedal to center the shoes, then go back to adjusting till you feel a drag on the tire. Then back off the adjuster a few clicks.Then do the rest of the adjusters to the same amount of clicks, center the brakes and then tighten or loosen each adjuster till the drag feels the same on each wheel as that first one. Unsure if this will help but I do wish you good luck and a Happy Thanksgiving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_N Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 John, thanks for the tips. I will do that at adjustment time. Willie and Bob have me convinced it's the pads. I called Napa today and they thought I was on drugs. So, I need to source somewhere else. And yes, Yoda has been a real issue of late. The replacement parts have been a real problem. Once again I'm reminded rusty NOS stuff is better than new. Of course not with pads.One nice thing; diving Yoda as far as I dare has shown the dramatic improvement in handling and ride. No more groans over bumps etc. But I find that I now have an issue with the passenger side of the rear shock link. It does not line up well. Happy Thanksgiving!Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trp3141592 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Hi Gary,I cannot address your brake problem specifically, Gary, and I don't know if your car has a vacuum booster or not. We have had hydraulic-braked trucks here that cannot be stopped if the vacuum booster fails.I CAN tell you that everything I learned about brake lining material was taught to me by the Monster. When I had shoes front re-lined locally they came back with two different color linings. Dummy me, I put two light-color shoes on the LF side and the two dark color shoes on the RF. Yeah, I am slow on the uptake. Off I went to test, and if I even thought the word, "brakes," the RF would sieze up WHAMBANGRIGHTNOW! and the left front appeared to do nothing discernable at all.I went back to the reliner with the shoes, and he patiently, like a father teaching Alegbra I to his kid, slapped me upside the back of my head and said, "Dummy!--put one of each on each corner!" Well, DUH on me. He was right--they work perfectly now. I felt like the biggest fool in South Bend-. Until we elected a new mayor anyway.I since read in one of the manuals somewhere that primary shoes and secondary shoes were sometimes made with different hardness of materials--like the Monster's--to compensate for the relative difference in their efficiency. Perhaps that's supposed to be the case with your shoes if there is no booster. Perhaps your shoes are all eight the same too-hard material? Is there a shop manual that will address this?--Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kaycee Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Poor Yoda!!! Did you have the brake shoe linings ground (arched) to match the droms after the drums were 'cleaned up'? It used to be a practice to have that done on any good brake job, otherwise the shoes are just riding on the centers when they contact the drum until they finally wear in. kaycee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Poor Yoda!!! Did you have the brake shoe linings ground (arched) to match the droms after the drums were 'cleaned up'? It used to be a practice to have that done on any good brake job, otherwise the shoes are just riding on the centers when they contact the drum until they finally wear in. kayceeAs a brake mechanic, I must agree. You need to be sure that the shoe surface is full on the drum or you will always have a stopping problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charlie Larkin Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I read this as the title caught my eye, and it's made me curious. Do newer brake materials (or manufacturing methods) not work as well as the older ones or is it the brake and chassis dynamics that's causing the problems? Charlie Larkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_N Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Everyone:Been a while since I had a chance to work on Yoda. I finally bought new shoes from Bob's. I like Bob's. I never have any issues with their stuff. Anyway, their shoes fixed the problem. So I can use the other set of new shoes as the core. Nothing like buying two sets of new shoes to get one good one! I have a a nice firm pedal and mostly predictable stopping distances now. I have to say I am a fan of reverse bleeding. It's a little messy but you can do it solo and relatively fast and the results are great. I also like smelling the paint on the drums when they heat up a little. Kinda like a new car! I painted the drums with black caliper paint. I can take my hand off the wheel and stop fast and straight.One thing though, the steering is horrible with the radials. Now I need to get the front end aligned since it's all new but I can't figure why the steering is so sloppy. Scary sloppy. Hopefully the alignment will help???As usual, thanks for all of your help!Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Everyone:Been a while since I had a chance to work on Yoda. I finally bought new shoes from Bob's. I like Bob's. I never have any issues with their stuff. Anyway, their shoes fixed the problem. So I can use the other set of new shoes as the core. Nothing like buying two sets of new shoes to get one good one! I have a a nice firm pedal and mostly predictable stopping distances now. I have to say I am a fan of reverse bleeding. It's a little messy but you can do it solo and relatively fast and the results are great. I also like smelling the paint on the drums when they heat up a little. Kinda like a new car! I painted the drums with black caliper paint. I can take my hand off the wheel and stop fast and straight.One thing though, the steering is horrible with the radials. Now I need to get the front end aligned since it's all new but I can't figure why the steering is so sloppy. Scary sloppy. Hopefully the alignment will help???As usual, thanks for all of your help!GaryI would check into the steering box if an alignment does not cure the sloppy steering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Gary, good to hear Yoda will stop. Congrats. Dont believe I have heard of "reverse"bleeding. Probably missed that discussion. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_N Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Ben, it's a 'gun' that attaches to the wheel cylinders and pushes fluid and air bubbles up through the master. It's pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trp3141592 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Hi,If you google "pressure brake bleeder" you can find a number of plans for inexpensive home-made presurized bleeding set ups. I made one since I flush the fluid in each of the cars every Spring. They can be used to pressurize the master cylinder, or also attached to the bleeders to 'reverse-bleed" each wheel cylinder. You can make one for about $25.00 in parts.Auto parts stores carry manual brake bleeding vacuum pumps that allow for one-person bleeding also. They cost more than making a home-made pressure bleeder.--Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Thanks, guys. I did make a pressure bleeder that worked pretty well. Just had not heard of reverse bleeding. Will try that sometime. just goes to show an old dog CAN learn new tricks. Gary, hope Yoda does not throw too many more kinks in your way. Looking forward to seeing Him finished. I need the insperation!! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 The drums may have been turned larger than spec and the shoes don't match the drum contour. Before pulling any wheels, slam on the brakes as hard as you can a few times and when you pull the wheels you will be able to see the contact area on the shoes. Back in the day when repair shops relined brake shoes with riveted material, they had a grinding fixture that went on the spindle and would grind the shoes concentric. New bonded shoes for the most part eliminated this out of round shoe problem except for over ground drums.Today's brake shoes are line with material for longer wear and work because of the power brakes. Get your shoes relined by a restoration shop to get the right type of material for your car. I use White Post Restorations for all my antique relining.Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Hi Gary, have not heard from you in some time. Yoda must have settled down. In an earlier post I believe you mentioned Yoda used a 6 volt alternator. I am interested in that for my Special. Any advice?? Thanks Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_N Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 Ben, Yoda is sitting on the life waiting for a new Shock link and better weather so I can get him aligned. I keep going through shock links. Something is bent and I have not figured that out yet.The 6 Volt alternator was the BEST thing I ever did. It was about $300. Got it here: Fifth Avenue Internet GarageI had to fab a bracket. It's not pretty but it works. I used a universal bracket that came with the alternator and made a longer adjusting bracket. I had to use a truck v belt which was a bit of a pain to get. Well, I measured wrong and I had to buy like 4 before I found the correct size. I'll post a picture soon.Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledheader 48381 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Gary; Although I have never had to do the brakes on my 47, as a mech. for the last 35 years at dealers and now at a municiple garage in metro Detroit I have lots of experience doing brakes on cars and trucks. High brake pedal effort is common after installing new pads or shoes especially if the rotors or drums have been machined, due mostly to the materials the new linings are made from[epa compliant]. There is a process for setting new pads or shoes it is called burnishing, it involves road testing you car and doing a series of long slow stops and hard stops to seat the shoes and drums sometimes this takes quite a while and sometimes its good to do it several times letting the brakes cool between road tests. One other thing I've run into is either a collapsed or twisted flex hose and by saying collapsed I mean internally which is usually not apparent by inspecting the outside. Don 47 56C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_N Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 Don, actually I did burnish in the pads. It similar to bedding in race pads. The brakes seem very good right now. As I said earlier, I bought shoes from a different supplier and that took care of most of the problem. The steering in now the issue but the snow is killing my efforts there.Speaking of brake lines, I had s set made. Actually, you can get them in a braided material which I wish I used. I road course a Corvette and braided lines make a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trp3141592 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Hi,I looked at getting braided lines for the Old lady, but I was put off by the different-looking fittings that they require. Are braided stainless lines available with "standard" 45-degree flared ends?--Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_N Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Tom, I had no problem matching the stock fittings.Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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