Brakes Springs - How the heck do you get them on?

[Gary_N]

OK, I've wrestled with this long enough. Time to call on the experts. Yoda (my '50) has been going through a complete brake overhaul. New lines, shoes, cylinders, M/C, etc. One thing I can never figure out is how to easily get the brakes springs back on. I have two types of brake tools. One from Sears that looks like pliers with a hook and pick at one end. And I just picked up a NAPA supposed new type spring loaded so easy a baby could use it tool. Neither works. Well, I would say the operator cannot figure out how to get the Sears one to work anyway. The NAPA tool is useless.

So, can anyone tell me the secret of getting these springs apart from just trying to "bull" them on to the spring pin?

Thanks.

Gary

[Pete O]

The one that looks like big pliers with a hook on one end- hook one end of the spring to its anchoring point opposite the shoe you will be hooking the other end into. Hook the free end of the spring to the hooked end of the spring tool. Spread open the tool, and put the other "plier" end on the facing of the brake lining by the hole you're hooking the spring into. Squeeze the tool closed, and it will strech the spring, using the "plier" end on the face of the brake lining as the leverage point. With a little practice, you should be able to pop the hooked end of the spring right into the hole.

[Bhigdog]

Actually the easiest type to use looks like a 5/16 steel rod with a cup shaped dimple in the side right at the end. Place the small spring hook in the shoe. Slide the rod through the other spring end. Place the dimple on the pin and simply lift the rod towards the pin and the spring slides along the rod and slips off the end onto the pin. Takes no more than 10 seconds and works every time................Bob

Edited September 23, 2009 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Pete O]

Bhigdog, you are correct sir, if you're hooking the spring onto a post rather than into a hole in the shoe. Many of those plier type spring tools have the tool you describe included in the handle end of the plier. It's a straight bar with a little notched out dimple on one side. The other handle of the plier often has a spring removal tool. It's cupped out and has a dowel on the side. Place the cup over the pin and spin it so the dowel hooks the spring end, and voila!

[Bhigdog]

Yup, just different ways to skin the same cat. I have both type tools but find hooking the spring by hand into the shoe first far easier than visa versa. Now if you want to talk about an abortion of a brake spring system lets talk Mopar center plane brakes............Bob

[trp3141592]

This is the tool I use to snap springs back on to posts, such as found on Bendix brakes. It's useless with Wagner pivot-at-the-bottom brakes such as found on an old Willys Jeep. It's better at installing than at removing.

You're going to snap the spring on to the post, so first put the shoe-end of the spring into the shoe. Lightly oil the shaft to help the spring slide off the end. Slip the loop on the post end of the spring onto the shaft, hook the end of the tool on the post, stretch the spring, slide the spring hook down the shaft, off the end, and right on to the post. It goes "WHOINGOINOING!!" and it's on.

Your plier/hook/pin tool may already have a dimple on the end of one of the straight handles. It's will do the same job, but in my experience is less easy to keep on the post. That's why I bought the one below.

Snap-On sells this tool for $30.00, but Brand-X's are available for a little less. Look on the stand of card-mounted tools at your auto parts store. While you're there, buy the brake adjusting tool also. The angled ends of the blades of the adjusting tool make turning those star wheels a lot easier!

Bendix style brake spring tool.

--Tom

Edited September 23, 2009 by trp3141592 (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

This is the tool I use to snap springs back on to posts, such as found on Bendix brakes. It's useless with Wagner pivot-at-the-bottom brakes such as found on an old Willys Jeep. It's better at installing than at removing.

You're going to snap the spring on to the post, so first put the shoe-end of the spring into the shoe. Lightly oil the shaft to help the spring slide off the end. Slip the loop on the post end of the spring onto the shaft, hook the end of the tool on the post, stretch the spring, slide the spring hook down the shaft, off the end, and right on to the post. It goes "WHOINGOINOING!!" and it's on.

Your plier/hook/pin tool may already have a dimple on the end of one of the straight handles. It's will do the same job, but in my experience is less easy to keep on the post. That's why I bought the one below.

Snap-On sells this tool for $30.00, but Brand-X's are available for a little less. Look on the stand of card-mounted tools at your auto parts store. While you're there, buy the brake adjusting tool also. The angled ends of the blades of the adjusting tool make turning those star wheels a lot easier!

Bendix style brake spring tool.

--Tom

Mine go WINGINGINGING. Must be a different make tool. ;-)

[old-tank]

Gary

The service manual says to use a large pair of pliers. I have used vise grips in the past, but with the propper tool I don't bleed as much.

Willie

[Bhigdog]

vice grips and adjustable wrenches. They both are spawn of the Devil...................Bob

[Gary_N]

Well, I have the pliers you guys are talking about. Have the dimple side and the hook side. I still can't get it to work. The springs are shall we say very stiff. My ex's son was over and used my pliers tool in a much different way. He somehow used the hook end to slip on anchor pin and 'twisted' it on. I guess I just must a weakling. Ah well, two more to go so I'll try your methods.

I did figure out that safety glasses are a must since I've banged my protected eyes more than once. And Bob, you are correct. Those MOPAR brakes are very different.

Willie: How the heck do you use vice grips or big pliers?? That sounds like the "bull" method! I'd have to work out for about 6 months first!

Thanks for the help!!!

Gary

[old-tank]

Willie: How the heck do you use vice grips or big pliers?? That sounds like the "bull" method! I'd have to work out for about 6 months first!

Thanks for the help!!!

Gary

Right, that is the bull method. The only good news is when you slip the blood does not affected the function of the brake shoes.:eek:

Willie

[trp3141592]

These return springs should not be that difficult to install! So back to basics:

We ARE talking about Bendix style brakes, right? A post, or pin, at the top that each return spring hooks onto, a star wheel and smaller spring between the shoes at the bottom for adjustments, no heavy pivot pin at the bottom?

One end of each return spring goes into each shoe, the other end gets stretched and hooked on to a post, or pin, at top center of the backing plate?

The return spring ends do NOT hook into both shoes at once?

Are you sure you have the right return springs? Are you sure you're using the right hole in the shoes?

If these are in fact Bendix-style brakes, the dimple-ended tool (either one, but I like the Snap-on one) should work great! The Snap-on tool, with its bends in the shaft, allows the spring end to slip down close to the end of the shaft as you are drawing the hook toward the post (or pin) so you're not pulling the spring 6" away from the backing plate.

The tools should do the job for you. I am mystified that it hasn't worked out.

--Tom

[trp3141592]

Mine go WINGINGINGING. Must be a different make tool. ;-)

Heh, heh--it's just that East Coast accent...

--Tom

[Thriller]

Willie: How the heck do you use vice grips or big pliers?? That sounds like the "bull" method! I'd have to work out for about 6 months first!

But, you are The Bull...or was MrEarl pulling our collective legs?

[trp3141592]

Hi.

This thread has really bugged me. I have assumed that your 1950 drum brakes are Bendix style as shown below:

Bendix Style Brake

If that is correct, then there is no reason why the Snap-on tool would not make the return spring installation a "snap." (Pun intended, on multiple levels)

Are your return springs new, as part of a hardware kit? If you are really having to heave-ho on the returned springs, compare the new ones to the originals. If your new springs are too short then all the problems getting them installed make sense.

Please let us all know your final results.

--Tom

[Gary_N]

Tom, thanks for all of the detailed info. Had to take the weekend off and let Yoda collect some dust while I had visitors. Anyway, the short answer is yes, everything is correctly in place. The springs (from CARS) are VERY stiff though. I don't have the snap on tool. Looks like I should add that to my tool mix. My pliers tool has the dimple end, etc. So, either I'm a complete idiot (which is entirely possible); a complete weakling; or just plain inept. We'll see what happens on the fronts.

Thriller: Ah...yes.....Mr. Earl may have fabricated some of the bull myths but I think he's jealous of my plasma torch!

Gary

[trp3141592]

Hi Gary,

Add me to the list of those who are jealous of your plasma wrench, er, um, torch.

--Tom

[Gary_N]

And Tom, I jealous of your collection, with the exception of the back model. I already have the 1948 model!

Gary

[MrEarl]

Somethin to cheer ya up. Look out lil chicadees:)

[Gary_N]

Thanks Lamar, love it!

[trp3141592]

Heya Gary,

Baby (my LaSalle--not a Buick, but what the heck, at least it's GM!) needed new seals at the front drums, and the weather was good, so off came the drums. There was grease contamination on the shoes, so off they came for de-greasing! What comes off must go back on, so I took some pix of how to use the Snap-On or equivalent tool for installing your springs.

Set your springs in place in the shoes. The LaSalle springs are a little counter-intuitive, as the hook doesn't actually hook into the shoe. Your Buick is likely the same. The hook goes in the hole, the spring gets rotated, and it's in place.

Catch the hook end of the spring with the dimpled end of the tool. Note--use the plain dimpled end of the tool, not the end with the spring removal fitting on it.

Catch the dimple onto the pin...

With the dimple hooked on the pin, pull the tool laterally to tension the spring. Keep going, keep going, keep going, and...

BOINOIONIONIOING !!! The spring slips off the end of the tool, right into place. Note: you don't twist it on--it comes off over the end of the tool.

Tap or push the hook flat against the boss on the pin to leave room for the other spring. Install the other spring the same way. It also goes, "BOINOIONIONIOING !!!"

This really works well. To ease it along, you might want to slick up the tool a bit with some light oil to help the hook end of the spring to slide.

Hope this helps,

--Tom

[Gary_N]

Tom, thanks for the visual education! I need to get one of those tools!

Gary

[trp3141592]

Hi Gary,

...on the other side of the car the springs go " !!! GNIOINOINOIONIOB "...

LOL !!

--Tom

[Gary_N]

Tom, I'll have to see what sounds my springs make!

[Gary_N]

And by the way, I really want to trade the '50 for a pre-war Roadmaster. How does your '37 drive compared to the La Salle? I'd ask about the Cord but that's too pricey for me. I think the Cord sedans are beautiful. I should see one or two this week in Hershey.

Gary

[trp3141592]

Hi Gary,

My '37 Buick is in much better shape than the LaSalle, so it rides and drives better than the LaSalle right now. But with shocks and some steering issues cleared up, I'd say my LaSalle would then be a more comfortable ride. The LaSalle's certainly roomier up front, though not in back, which is where you would stick the kids anyway. The LaSalle was a low-end Cadillac, so it doesn't have many goodies other than a radio. Heater and defroster were optional. It does have turn signals.

Both would benefit greatly from power steering!!

BUT--the Buick has sidemounts, and those sidemounts TURN THE HEADS of people as you go by. That adds a lot to the fun. The Buick is far more "limousine-y" than the LaSalle, and that's what people for whom I agree to chauffeur a car for weddings choose.

A 1940 LaSalle Series 50 with sidemounts might be available somewhere, but the new-for-1940 Series 52 was not available with sidemounts.

A friend of mine here in Niles is currently dropping a Chevy 350 into his 1940 LaSalle Series 52 sedan (like mine) but he is retaining all the original suspension since it has such a good feel on the road. He has been using 15" wheels and radials on it.

The Cord does not run yet, but it will one of these days if I live long enough and find some money. Cords are beautiful, but they are VERY demanding, expensive, unreliable, and stubborn high maintenance mistresses. Come to Auburn, IN, Labor Day Saturday next year for the annual Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg Reunion and Festival and take a gander at them.

--Tom

[Gary_N]

Well, it looks like the old tools are different from the new ones -- the plier type anyway. I picked up a used plier type tool at Hershey from the old tools vendor. The older tool has a slot for the brake pin. The new plier tool has a dimple. The slot made all the difference. And I think I paid $4 for it. I think old tools are as cool as old cars actually. Anyway, just thought I'd pass that on.

Gary