Radial Engine Cars?

[Guest Robin Coleman]

This is a wierd question, and is motivated by the Jay Leno sighting post. I know that it is said that there is nothing new under the sun. I also am aware there were numerous military vehicles/tanks that used a radial engine, but were there any cars made that used them? I have never heard of one.

[Guest Richard D]

It was made by Pontiac in a very Fiero looking body. The engine was a two stroke 4 cylinder mounted vertically behind the drivers compartment. I saw it in A late 1970's Popular Science. I will try to find the article.

HERE IS THE ARTICLE, it was from a 1969 Popular Science, the car looks so much like a Fiero, two seater mid-engine Hmmm

http://books.google.com/books?id=EyoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA63&dq=radial+car+engine&lr=&as_pt=MAGAZINES&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html

[hddennis]

The former Harrah's car is the only known survivor, a 1906 Adams-Farwell.

Check here: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:YqbmgBzry9IJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adams-Farwell+Adams-Farwell&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Howard Dennis

[Guest Richard D]

The 1969 article said Pontiac could have them on the road in as little as two and a half years!

[Guest Dean_H.]

Back in the early nineties, I was really after something with a radial engine. I finally bought this old Stearman crop duster with a 450 HP engine. Had big plans to get it going but after a few years ran out of energy and money and sold it.

[Dave@Moon]

Car? Why does it have to be a car?

Radial Engine Powered Motorcycle

Radial Engine Motorcycle #2

[Dave@Moon]

There have also been 2 entries in Grand Prix racing that used radial engines.

Radial Engined Grand Prix Cars

[Ivan Saxton]

It is a pity you gave up on it. I have brand new R975 Wright Whirlwinds like the Stearman used, still in original boxes. Log sheets show around 440bhp at 2400rpm on 5.7to1 compression ratio, which you could run on auto fuel.

Adams Farwell was actually a rotary a bit like a lot of WW1 aero engines, where the engine rotated around its crankshaft.

Harrah's one is five cylinder, but earlier they made a 3 cylinder which was less powerful.

Another variant on similar theme was the Eagle Macomber, which were lightweight cars with 5 or 7 cylinder axial cylinder engines. The cylinders were in a barrel formation. There was an article on these in HCCA Gazette a few years ago that is worth a look. I had never seen pictures of an engine before.

Ivan Saxton

[CarlLaFong]

From 1921 to 1925 the Megola was built in Germany

[Steve Braverman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Fields</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, there is one in the National Auto Museum in Reno, NV. I don't remember the name of the car. The radial engine lies horizontaly in the back; very strange. </div></div>

I believe the car you are thinking of is a 1925 Julian.

[Guest Robin Coleman]

Once again, I am not trying to come across as a know it all, but Stearmans were originally made with a 220hp Jacobs engine. Pilots called them a "shakey jake". It may well be they came with other model engines in later production versions.

Among ag pilots, there is a saying that goes "Wright is Wrong". These engines do not live very long when used at low altitudes. I never met an ag pilot who would fly a P&W radial unless it had a penny stuck heads out in the oil sump plug.

As I said, there ain't nothing new under the sun, but the scooters are the wierdest things I have ever seen!

[Guest Robin Coleman]

Dean H; Too bad you got rid of your Stearman. Very nice examples are now selling for well over 200K. Mid Continent Aircraft in Hayti, Mo is one of the Stearman experts in the US. All I can say about a Stearman is they would make a pilot out of you, for you had to fly them until they were tied down. Talk about bad ground handling, these things with their narrow gear would ground loop at walking speeds. If yours was a crop duster, it almost certainly had a P&W R-985 450HP engine.

Ivan, no insult intended, but I love P&W and as I said, Wright is Wrong from an ag pilot's view point. Still, A new in crate radial is an impossible find these days! You have a rare find indeed.

[Ivan Saxton]

My aircraft friends here tell me that Stearman originally had Wright Whirlwind ungeared, and many were retrofitted with P&W. Probably one reason there were so many of the latter around was that the Australian Cruiser tank, which was a derivation of the Medium tanks (Lee, Grant, & Sherman) was intended to have P&W R985. Bob Chamberlain from Melbourne was in USA To advise Bantam because of problems they were having with the Jeep (I can't understand why they did not consult Harry Miller, who was working on his projcts in Detroit then). Bob then found himself on the design team for the tanks. He signed an order on behalf of the Australian Government for 1000 ungeared Pratt and Whitney R985 engines, which they tagged onto the end of a production run for Harvard trainers. About 300 had been shipped before Pearl Harbour. After that there were many US military people out here, and someone decided that the AC1 project would not come to much; and most of the engines were shipped back. My father bought two in boxes from Army Disposals in the mid 40's; and they were later sold to someone who used them in aircraft. (It is strange that someone could have had such a jaundiced view of the AC1, because it was an improvement on the Lee, Grant, et cetera. It had a much lower silhouette, and the transmission, made by Oliver, eliminated problems that showed up in the others made by Chrysler and Baldwin Locomotive. Out here, instead of the P&W's that had been sent back, they mounted triple Cadillac V8's with Hydomatatics.

I do have detailed knowledge of the differences between the aircraft and tank adaptations of these radial engines. They are minor. Instead of the altitude leaning device in the aircraft version of the Stromberg NAR9- carb, there is a fuel cut-off control on the NAR9D for the tanks. And you need a mount for a front engine support bar in a tank. You cannot use an aircraft engine in a tank; but you can use a tank engine in an aircraft. My father and his partner bought a huge quantity of war surplus from Army Disposals, including some 200 tanks! One was made into a log-loader in the bush beyond Licola for one of the family company sawmills. The engine burned one day because my mother's brother, in panic, forgot to pull the safety pins in the fire extinguishers. The engineer's shop foreman decided that the quickest way to replace the engine was to drive another tank the 70-80 miles up there and swap over what was needed. A Lee would normally do about 27mph flat out at 2400rpm. He disabled the governor, and drove at 45mph. That engine never gave trouble in the the 10-12 years we still owned the business, because I know how many engines there were and where they went. Now the thing you have to be careful of with those Wright Whirlwinds --(incidentally made under licence by Continental), was acceleration/deceleration loading of the centrifugal supercharger gears, which had a ratio about ten to one. If you tried to run them up and down the rev range like a sports car or a Napier Sabre engine you were stretching the friendship too far. Maybe the Pratt&Whitney engins were stronger in the supercharger gearing. I would geuss that in cropdusting your revs would be up and down a lot, Robin.(I still visit Ben Baxter every few weeks when I go to Melbourne: He is becoming a bit unroadworthy at 89, but his mind is as sharp as a tack)

You would be aware, Robin, that the Wright Whirlwind was the engine Charles Lindberg used for his first solo flight across the Atlantic. Continental developed them considerably, and I understand that the R975-34 was used in twin-engined military helicopters into the '60's; so they probably did service in Vietnam.

The engines I still have are beautifully built, and fine functioal sculpture. (One motor cycle enthusiast bought one from me to mount and display in his bar in his home. I marvel at the expense in making theseat aircraft standard in every way even for tanks which had an average battle life then of 2 1/2 hours; (or so I was told by someone who was in an aroured corps in the War.) Ivan Saxton

[Guest Dean_H.]

Here is another picture of my former 1943 Stearman. It did have the R-985, an excellent engine. I removed the pesticide tank and found an extra seat and controls. The wings were modified for high lift, I was building new ones to original specs. Too bad I didn't keep it, the value has certainly gone up.

Here is a project plane I did finish, 1947 Luscombe 8E. I saw a picture of a P51 with these colors, and painted the Luscombe the same. It was a lot of fun to fly, I put a little over a hundred hours on it. A tornado destroyed this beauty.

[keiser31]

Ohhhh yeahhhh...I LOVE IT!!!

[hddennis]

Dave was it either of these? I know there was a German one during the 20's but I can't find it. Check here: http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/helica/helica.htm

Howard Dennis

[Rusty_OToole]

Chrysler built an experimental Plymouth with a radial engine about 1937. I saw a picture of it in a book on the history of Chrysler. It was about the size of a VW.

The first VW prototypes had a 3 cyl

radial engine that they quickly dropped.

The Bristol aircraft company in England made a rear engine sedan with a radial 3 cylinder. This was in the late 40s early 50s.

None of them made production, I wonder why?

[Guest imported_PWN]

My Grandfather, Emerson Clavel, discovered the Adams Farwell mentioned in Florida in the 1940 I think.

He sold it to the museum and put my mom and aunt through college.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: keiser31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ohhhh yeahhhh...I LOVE IT!!! </div></div>

The one of a kind 1932 Helicron Propeller Car appeared at the 2007 Ault Park Concour d'Elegance here in Cincinnati. The original engine is lost, and it's currently powered by a 1980s Citroen engine. Apparently it never had a radial engine.

[Dave@Moon]

YouTube - Radial Engine Powered Goggomobil

[Guest Xprefix28truck]

At least he wore his helmet on the test run!!

[Barry Wolk]

YouTube - Radial Engine Powered Goggomobil

Be cautious of this guy's site. He has some pretty radical associations.

It is a very cool project, though.

[Dave@Moon]

He has some pretty radical associations.

There's a shock.

[Barry Wolk]

Have you been to his site? The guy's a Nazi.

[keiser31]

Howard and Keiser, yes that is the car. I wonder what the guy who built it looked like?

Here is the test driver...

[Dave@Moon]

Have you been to his site? The guy's a Nazi.

No, but I'm not surprised.

Frankly the personal affiliations of someone spending their time doing something like this just aren't something I'd be interested in. I wasn't going to send him any money anyway.

Which leads me to this, if he is using this video to solicit money or promote his "ideas" I'll pull the link immediately.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Dave@Moon (see edit history)

[Barry Wolk]

No. It's very subtle, but it's there.

[Guest Bob Call]

Is that Deutschland Uber Alles playing in the video?

[Barry Wolk]

Google translation of his page:

Göring, Immel's, Richthofen, Udet and the many ungenannten German heroes of the skies;

fought them but then with inadequate motorisiertem aircraft against the excessive power of the fremdländischen aggressors...

We teach Historyevents: the victory is possible only with überlegender technology and weapons!

The enemies have themselves long among us mixed... modern is the Straßenkampf!

This Kampfgoggo is been assigned the ID HG18 by the road Defence Office.

Two side herausgeführte interference sound cannons authorities together with the integrated

Gasflushing Setup and the vermin detector system main armament represents.

The 10200ccm radial engine comes from an ostischen aircraft to the pest control

and should now against pests of the North.

The top secret level is complete and follow the test runs now.

The German works power team now exposes its documentation in picture and sound.

Future testing missions are also covered with pictures and movies and issued on this website. The page is continually refreshed; also necessarily read the source code!

Look past times desöfteren - here is doing what! The pictures and movies please not link!

Just proves that a genius can be stupid.

[countrytravler]

Just saw this.

[Guest cben09]

One of the other products of A-F Co,,,,was a VERTICAL milling attachment for the

then common metal plainer,,,years before Bridgeports,,,,

Would have been in the era of the then famous Becker-Braynard Vertical

Made in Hyde Park,,part of Boston,,turn of the century ,,,

Cheers,,Ben

[Guest rjones]

If memory serves me correctly,(the seventies are foggy) in the mid seventies Chevrolet was working on a radial prototype. It was called a Vilella gyro reciprocating I think! Crankshaft was fixed and the cylinders rotated creating a gyroscopic effect to aid stability. Engine laid flat in engine bay with the crankshaft pointing up. Only read about it once and never saw or heard of it again.

[oldcarfudd]

If the crankshaft pointed up, wouldn't the car have been reluctant to turn in one direction and too quick to turn in the other? That was the problem with WWI aircraft with rotary engines, once the engines got big and powerful relative to the size of the plane. They'd turn one way, but not the other. Sopwith Camels were notorious for this behavior. Fokker D-7 pilots could attack from one side and the Camel pilot couldn't escape; if the Fokker pilot attacked from the other side, the Camel pilot could turn on a dime.

[Guest Magoo]

Excuse me if this one is obvious or already mentioned, but there's the Hoffman X-8: a prototype car built by Hoffman Development Corp. of Detroit c1935, for an as-yet unspecified automaker. (There are several good theories but Rod Hoffman never revealed the client.) The car resided in the Brooks Stevens collection for many years, was the subject of a DriveReport feature in Special Interest Autos, and now belongs to Myron Vernis in Canton, Ohio. As far as is known, the X-8 radial engine in this vehicle is unique, the only one built.

[Guest rjones]

Googled vilella and came up with the Motor Trend article on the Chevrolet testing of the radial engine.