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"New" Peerless Discovered!


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Dear Peerless fans,

In my continuing quest to find all of the surviving Peerlesses, I have discovered another one today. There is a restored 1917 Peerless Touring in Sweden. A V-8 of course!

----Jeff

NOTE: Oddly enough, there's a picture of the car on wikipedia's page about Peerless!

Color Photo found on: www.swedishbrasscar.com ( Go to Contents, then scroll down to Cars A-Z until you reach Peerless )

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  • 9 months later...

Philippe Mordant wrote me that a 1923 Peerless Model 66 Touring was for sale in Barcelona, Spain this summer. Blue, with Black fenders and top. Looks to be in very good condition. I believe the source of the ad was "anciennes.net" in July, 2009. This V-8 Phaetons price was 73,000 euros.

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Dan,

Thanks for writing. I'm not familiar with this vehicle. First, the basic question of what type of vehicle: is this a car, 1905-1919 truck, or a Peerless steam tractor ( not built by the Peerless Motor Car Co )? Second, have you seen it or read of it?

I have a photo somewhere of a Peerless Touring Car meeting a Peerless Tractor on the road in 1907.

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That was the 1905 Glidden tour from N.Y. city to Hartford, Boston, Portsmouth, Mt. Washington and back to N.Y. The picture of the steam tractor blocking the road was in the Jan. Feb. issue of Antique Automobile 1976. I don't believe there is a Peerless car in that picture. They had the "Climb to the Clouds" on this tour that went up Mount Washington and it was quite treacherous. There was a storm and several tourist were injured by lightening. Peerless was on this tour and finished with a perfect score however Percy Pierce in a Pierce Great Arrow won the 1905 Glidden Tour.

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  • 2 months later...

December 12th, 2009.

There are currently some people carrying on a discussion about a heretofore-undiscovered 1925 Peerless on the AACA General Discussion Forum. I believe the car is a Model 6-72 Sedan, is in New Jersey, and is for sale at $10,500. There are even photos!

The original post is from "broker-bob", who has seen the car and is interested in buying it.

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A new Peerless has appeared on ebay recently. In November, there was a pretty nice-looking 1929 Peerless with red wire wheels and dual sidemounts for sale in the Oneida, New York area. It did not sell and is still for sale. It needs a full restoration, but the owner said he got the motor running a couple of years ago and the car is 95% complete.

Neither I nor the owner are sure of the model or body style...but the car has a six and has the kind of 4-passenger body style that is sometimes referred to as a Victoria, 4-Passenger Coupe, Doctor's Coupe, or Opera Coupe. There is a fitted case in the rear seating area that may be for a top hat. Minimum price, I believe, is $6,500.

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I saw a Peerless "boattail" coupe for sale a few years ago in Charleston, WV. 6 cylinder, I forget the model (6-70)? I am not sure if he ever sold it...needed a flywheel if I remember correctly. Otherwise looked like it was in pretty good shape!

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  • 5 months later...

I found a "new" Peerless today(May 20th). It was a rather unusual one, for sale at a ranch auction May 15th, 2010 in Mariposa, California. The text said it was a 1927 Peerless "open cab truck with good spoke wheels". Looking at the photo -- it looked like a Model 6-60 or 6-80 car converted into a pickup, with a wooden bed. Unrestored, but not a complete basket case. The hood, windshield, splash aprons, front fenders, tires & wooden wheels were all there, but the "open cab" part just meant it was missing the entire roof and the doors. Sold for $2,750.

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FOUND ANOTHER PEERLESS

This one is a 1926 Touring in TASMANIA. I found it in a websearch on May 22nd in a photo called "1993 world rally Tasmania" by vccatas. You can see the picture by going to: www.vccatas.org.au and looking under the event quoted above, or going to Google image search and typing-in "1926 Peerless Tasmania".

The car is shown in a head-on view and looks really well-restored. It could be either a 5- or 7-passenger Touring Phaeton, and a Model 6-80, 6-72, or 8-69; I really can't tell. The photo is #29 of 63 taken at a Veteran Car Club of Australia (Tas) show, and the Peerless appears to be dark green with black fenders. The view shows the distinctive 1925-28 Peerless radiator shell and nickel-plated drum headlights well, and the car looks like it has disc wheels.

This car brings the number of car and trucks on the Known Peerless Automobiles In Existence list to 300.

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  • 3 months later...

A new car's shown up in the Czech Republic. Someone named Ivana wrote in to the General Discussion Forum a week ago asking for help in identifying the year and model of a friend's Peerless Coupe. It's a late Twenties car without much documentation...and no photos yet. Title of thread is "Please help identify".

The owner of the Peerless found the car in Slovakia. He doesn't write in English, so needs to go through an interpreter. The auto could be a Coupe, Opera Coupe, or Victoria...a 6-61, 6-81, or even a 6-91. The serial number presented makes it sound like an extemely early-production 6-61.

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... and do you know this one? a 1917 Model 56 Cloverleaf Roadster sold by Driver Source in Houston, TX between the beginning of July and now for the price of US$56.500. I have all the record of 31 pictures and can get them all here if interested. But I will annex o few of them for your appetite.

I am living at about 30 miles from Philippe Mordant, a lover of Peerless as he already has a few of these cars.

1917 Peerless Model 56 Two-Power-Range Cloverleaf Roadster

Chassis No: 172135

Body No: 4355 8-7-17

Engine No: 2230786

The Model 56 Roadster is a gorgeous rare example of world class construction and luxury. This roadster was completely and carefully restored rotisserie style, frame off to exacting factory standards in 2003. The car was brought back to its original factory green paint and black leather interior. All of the roadster’s original features and instrumentation have stayed with the vehicle and have been restored as well. Includes dual spare 34x4Goodrich Silvertown Cords to mount on the roadster’s 12-spoke wooden wheels.

Equipped with original:

• Electric horn

• Royce Motometer

• V8 Engine and 3 Speed Transmission

• Driving Lamps

• Night light

• Gauges

• Tool Kit

• Accessories

Own this rare and unique vehicle for only $56,500!!

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I have seen it was already spoken about this car and about pictures of it in an ad of an auction company. the problem is you are giving the website place but not the pictures and when you are giving that in April per example you are not sure to find them in August or next year. The best manner to see picutres of a car is to add them to a post, I think.

It is my point of view and I think it is the best!

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We appreciate you adding the photos. Some of us can not always do so.

The Cloverleaf design is a "newer" concept to me. My friend Jeff Brown would say "I found a Cloverleaf roadster" and I would try to picture it but then thought what an ugly style that must be to have "4" cloverleaf sections to a body.

But your photos help - esocially that one slightly overhead shot showing the seperation of the front seats. Basically, bucket seats with pass through access to the rear seat.

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llopdoro,

Thank you for writing about the 1917 Model 56 Peerless and welcome to the Peerless Forum. When this green car came up for auction three years ago, Bryan and I had a discussion about it here ( please see "Peerless Photos" thread ). Many thanks for sending the photos....for some reason, it takes me a long time to attach them to my messages, so I rarely do it.

It's great to have two people from Belgium using the Peerless Forum now! Philippe sent me something you wrote earlier this year which I tried to translate. Apparently, you are a member of the American Car Club of France, the group for people in your area who collect American cars. Have you seen the recent posts on the "Peerless Research Findings" thread ( No. 128 and No. 129 )? There are two quotes from a 1930 French magazine about Peerless. Maybe you can translate them for us. I think one says: "To own a Peerless is equivalent to a letter of nobility" --- but my French is not very good.

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My name is Philippe Hulet de Limal. It will be easier and not anonymous like Llopdoro: llopdoro is a mixage between Catalan Spanish and Castillan Spanish, llop is Catalan is "wolf" in English, d is Catalan too when oro in Castillan for "gold" in English. This golden wolf is the crest of my arms.

An other Peerless, a 1926 PEERLESS GREEN DRAGON II RACER COMPLETLEY RESTORED, is on ebay today until September 6 - Other Makes: eBay Motors (item 110580013600 end time Sep-06-10 09:33:10 PDT)

I will prepare a record with the pictures and the text so that who will be coming here after the delay of auction will see all the information, what is never possible in the majority of the cases as nobody is thinking to the others who need information.

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The guy who was restoring it was adding something which is logically not included in a racer = a luggage box!!! what we see is not on its place on this car.

Here is the text of the offer:

"1926 Green Dragon II, A rare opportunity to own the famous John Hollansworth’s Green Dragon II. A racer with a rare model 69 engine. Has just completed a body off restoration, a total engine rebuild including new oil pump 12 volt alternator, ignition system, heavy duty water pump, new clutch, radiator, cooling fans, electric over drive, brakes, and shocks. Nothing has been over looked in the preparation of a race ready automobile. This was built to champagne in road rally and racing. Less than 100 miles since total rebuild and paint. This car is a total joy to drive and handles beautifully on the road. Over $100,000 dollars invested in the restoration."

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Dear Llopdoro,

Thank you for posting the information and photos of the '26 Peerless Speedster. The photography is very good. It was interesting to read about the origins of your family name. Don't some Basques speak French Catalan, or do they simply speak Basque? I'm glad that more Europeans like yourself are appreciating prewar American autos. How many people are in the ACCF...and what are the most popular U.S. cars for them to collect and drive?

About a year ago, a 1923 or 1924 Peerless Model 66 Touring was for sale by someone in Spain. Did you ever hear where it went? It was Blue with a Black top and a Peerless V-8.

Thank you. ----Jeff

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This is an interesting car but hardly original. Hollansworth started to build this from a bunch of parts he had then sold it to a person in Louisiana who finished it. Looks to be a fun car to drive but I hope they don't try to pass it off for an original. Peerless stopped racing in 1906, in 1916 a Peerless dealer built a Peerless race car using the new V-8 engine and called it "The Green Dragon" it won a few races but with the WWI it disappeared off the screen.

Hollansworth built a replica of this car and has run the Great Race several times with it. To my knowledge there were no Peerless race cars in the 20's.

The craze in the 20's was to take an old model T Ford and make a speedster or racer out of it. There were several companies that made all the parts, including bodies, to do this. Some of these were very succesful race cars.

There was a company called Peerless that made body parts for T speedsters but no relation to Peerless of Cleveland.

RHL

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  • 1 month later...
Dear Llopdoro,

Thank you for posting the information and photos of the '26 Peerless Speedster. The photography is very good. It was interesting to read about the origins of your family name. Don't some Basques speak French Catalan, or do they simply speak Basque? I'm glad that more Europeans like yourself are appreciating prewar American autos. How many people are in the ACCF...and what are the most popular U.S. cars for them to collect and drive?

About a year ago, a 1923 or 1924 Peerless Model 66 Touring was for sale by someone in Spain. Did you ever hear where it went? It was Blue with a Black top and a Peerless V-8.

Thank you. ----Jeff

Dear Jeff,

I was too busy with family's problems - my brothers and sisters turned my heritage at their advantage and I was getting the affair at the Court - to answer to your questions:

1. My name is¨Philippe L. HULET de LIMAL, now you can call me Philippe in place of my "llopdoro". I have seen you are from Idaho... When I was begining the history of my family in 1972 I was in contact through the Who is Who with a professor fo the Univesity of Dubois, ID. His name is Clarence HULET (clarence like the lion of Daktari) and as he is Mormon, his views were to find the most ancestors he can... we were able to return to a man (Hulet) born in Boston in 1615 and never up to now we found his real origins. One country, or one city, can be a way to find very much and perhaps have the same ancestors as me as apparently their coat arms are the same as the mines. Now Clarence, very old, is living in St. George, UT, where I passed in Sept., 1997, coming from Bryce Canyon and going to Las Vegas with a rent Chevy Lumina.

2. There are 2,536 members in the ACCF club where you can find people of french language from different parts of world, some are from the US. You certainly are knowing Yann Saunders who is the father of the Cadillac Database, he is Swiss but living from many years in the U.S.A.

3. Regards to the Basques, they are in the north of Spain (Bilbao, Burgos) but also in the southwest of France near Biarritz. They are speaking their dialect but also French in France and Spanish in Spain. Catalogna is different, it is on the Mediterranean Sea, principal cities are in Spain, Barcelona, in France, Perpignan, they are speaking Catalan and the language of the country. In Andorra, the language is Catalan but the majority of the people can speak Spanish, French, Portuguese and English, there were very much englishmen who were coming in this offshore paradise when they had to quit Hong Kong but didn't remain there because the weather is very cold.

4. regards to the 1923 Peerless, it's me who gave this ad to Philippe Mordant. The car was in Barcelona and I do not know if it already is sold.

A few weeks ago I have seen a 1929 Peerless roadster for sale in a country of South America but do not remember where exactly. As I have lists in my PC I will find it again and get the pictures I found here.

Philippe Hulet de Limal

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Philippe,

Thank you for writing back to answer some of my questions. Your distant relative was probably a professor at Boise State University in Boise, Idaho. I helped Yann Saunders find the name of a V-16 owner once for his Cadillac V-16 database. At one time, there were a lot of Basque sheepherders in Wyoming and Idaho. I think there is a Basque Festival in Boise every year. I always wanted to visit Andorra, after reading a book about it 35 years ago.

I was curious about the 1923 Peerless V-8 for two reasons. In my studies of Peerless cars and where they are located, I've never heard of a Peerless in France, Spain or Portugal except for that one, though I've heard of Peerlesses in 10 other European countries. Also, there's a very similar Peerless that's in Germany and I wondered if they could be "one and the same", as they say.

I know about the car in South America. It was in Argentina and advertised on PreWarCar 2 or 3 years ago. Now someone in North Carolina has it for sale...though I don't know where the car is actually located. I think it may be a black (with red stripes) Model Six-81 Roadster, 1929.

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  • 1 month later...

A 1931 Peerless straight 8 that almost no one has heard of before was listed in the Buy/Sell forum about December 8th. It's a restored car located in Dunedin, FL and the asking price is $39,000. The post has three color photos.

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Given the very high quality of Peerless automobiles, and the numbers originally produced ,~~~

Why do so few seem to still exist today ?

There is a very old Peerless engine & radiator combo still hooked-up to a crude farm saw mill here in suburban Philadelphia about ten miles from my home !

The owner states that it still runs !

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Brad,

Thanks for saying the nice things about Peerless automobiles. I think the main things against Peerless cars (and trucks) surviving to the present are the scrap drives of two world wars and just the number of years since they were built. I don't know how true it is, but there's a kind of legend that Peerlesses were singled out by scrap dealers because of high aluminum content and more were dragged in because of perceived higher scrap value. A number of Peerlesses had crankcases, transmission housings, and bodies of aluminum, depending on the year and model, but some had very little.

The truth is, Peerless was a small-production automaker, averaging only about 3,800 cars per year. By the 1930s, they weren't quite the same car as Duesenberg, although they always outsold them. Peerless wasn't selling $8,000 chassis' or $15,000 finished cars then, so they weren't as likely to be preserved. 20 years' earlier was their high point.They did get involved in the medium-priced market for four years, and that's when their biggest production was, 1926-1929, but even then they still had their hand in the higher-priced field with some luxury sixes and eights.

Then there's also wearing-out, German artillery, and the possibility that there are a couple of hundred no one knows about because there is absolutely no one keeping track of how many old cars are still out there.

That sawmill-plant Peerless engine sounds intriguing. It doesn't, by any chance, have three blocks of 2-cyl. each, and exhaust manifold pipes as big around as your arm, does it?

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Jeff:

The sawmill Peerless engine does indeed have the three cylinder block assemblys on an aluminum crankcase !

I am no Peerless expert but the owner thinks it is a 1913 or 1914 Peerless T-Head 60 HP engine.

He said it is the largest engine Peerless or anyone else made at this time!

This engine is indeed massive ! It has electric start and twin ignition ! The flywheel is also quite massive !

It is still connected to the big Peerless radiator !

It sure is NOT the later 20s monoblock engine styles that Peerless later used

!

The owner uses it to cut firewood logs that he cuts lengthwise and then quarters & sells !

This farm-built sawmill set-up has been used in this family for generations.

The saw blade is about 2 foot in diameter !

I buy my seasoned fireplace wood from him each fall !

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Brad,

The motor in the sawmill could be a number of Peerless designs: the 38, 48, and 60 HP, for instance. Would also be possible for it to be a slightly earlier vintage. If it's the so-called "60 HP" that came with the Model 60-Six, it's pretty big. Biggest production engine ever used in a car. 13.5 liters or 825 cubic inches. To be fair to our friends with Pierce-Arrows, Pierce also had an engine of the same size. The two companies seem to have been in a friendly "cubic inch war"...and both had sixes designated 38, 48, and 60 HP.

As you probably know -- these were S.A.E. ratings, and had little to do with brake horsepower and were more of a way to establish taxable horsepower, I think. Wasn't there a rolls-Royce called a "20/25", referring to its taxable, or S.A.E. horsepower? The electric dynomometers in the Peerless shop couldn't handle the power of this new big motor, so they were only able to estimate its h.p. with an improvised fan-type dyno. They got a reading of 110-120 h.p.

I sometimes wondered if American ingenuity ever took hold and prompted someone to use these enormous engines for something else after some of these models were scrapped. It appears that happened with the sawmill. I'd think you could run a tugboat with a motor of that size!

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Jeff:

This is indeed a monster of an engine.

After our latest snow here clears I could drive out to the farm and take a few photos for you & the Peerless folks.

Are there any casting or serial number locations anywhere on this engine I should look for ?

This engine makes my USA Springfield Silver Ghost & Phantom engines look small ; and that Phantom I engine is close to 8 liters !

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Before the collecting of antique cars caught on the expensive cars were the most likely to be scrapped. Repairs were so expensive, and they used a lot of gas. Even a worn clutch or a set of tires would be enough to send a car to the junkyard. There were plenty of cheap used cars around. You could buy a perfectly servicable luxury car for $50 or less, why bother with one that needed work?

Even when they reached the junkyard, some poor person or bargain hunter would buy a Model A, Chevrolet or Plymouth and put it back in condition, while bypassing the Peerless.

There was a curious example of the rapid depreciation of luxury cars on a Packard bbs recently. Someone showed the bill of sale for a 1937 Packard limousine. It cost around $6000 minus $700 or so for the trade in. The trade in was a 1932 Packard, presumably in good shape. This illustrates the rapid depreciation of the heavy cars of that time.

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I don't know where the ser. #'s on an early-1910s Peerless engine are. The Green Dragon may . There's only 1 complete 60-Six in the world: in Cleveland at the Crawford Auto-Aviation Museum. The 1914 60-Six in the museum is serial No. 143019, Engine serial No. 12917. I think your neighbor's body serial No. would be between 143001 and 143058 if it's a 1914 with the 60 HP powerplant. ----Jeff

P.S.: If the sawmill engine is still sitting on its chassis it might make an i.d. easier for you. The 60 HP sat on a 140" w.b.; the 48 HP was on a 137"; and the 38 HP was on a chassis of 125". If by some miracle the firewall was still there, there could be a body plate of some kind. To confuse things a little, Peerless sometimes referred to these 3 cars as Model 37 (60 HP, 825 c.i.d.), 36 (48 HP, 578 c.i.d.), and 35 (38 HP, 415 c.i.d.)

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I contacted a Peerless Club member in Canada who has a 1913 48-Six with the 578 cu. in. engine. His engine dimensions are:

a) 27 1/2" from top of head to bottom of sump [i originally wrote down 21 1/2"]

B) 13 1/4" width of head

c) 6" stroke

He was of the opinion the 60 HP motor would have bigger external dimensions, but he's never seen one.

(Note: looking forward to your photos.....with south Jersey getting something like 30" of snow a week ago......it might be awhile)

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