John Bloom

I will be following this. I’ve had two Alfas. The first was a 74 spider, with the spica Fuel Injection and chrome bumpers. I am furious with myself that I sold it. I was young and dumb. It had such a different feel than the little Brit roadsters of that era that I’ve had. these cars are fantasy type designs. I will be curious if the new owner will be revealed to the public.

Ed, I read slowly through your list of important lessons. Then I read it through a second time....... then I thought to myself “has Ed been secretly following me around the last 30 years and used me as his example of foolish behavior?” I have made every one of those mistakes, and sadly, am frequently tempted to repeat them again and again. The White is fantastic. I am about a three hour drive from Gilmore and look forward to seeing it up there in the future. john

Not to take this discussion away from color, because i like hearing other opinions on color, but as I look at older cars with Babbitt bearings, what do I need to know about owning a car with them. If the engine runs well and It doesn’t need to come apart, don’t worry about it? I know just enough to be dangerous. I have this mental image of finding some mythical character, eccentric knome, living alone in the woods with a chalaise or crucible from an English castle melting metal to be poured into my engine. any sane feedback on babbitt bearings?

Stooge, you are doing what most of us did. Buying what you can afford. There are some guys out there who are wealthy and at age 55 jump into the hobby with their first purchase being a statement six figure car......that is not the norm. Most started with an inexpensive car, learned, gradually had more discretional income, and their experience matures over time. I know several guys with large collections and some of them are pretty impressive/expensive cars. None of them started out that way. They started with a driver Model A (or some other fun modest car) they bought for 7K and had fun and kept going down the classic car pathway. That is typically how this starts. Just like you are doing. Enjoy it for itself........and at the end of the day, I believe the cars are just a medium to meet other car people and the lasting fun of this really is the friends you make and the time you share with them. The cars just take us there. And that coupe you're working on is very cool!

I don't want to criticize how others spend their money and determine their priorities. I am an "observer" of people.......Here is what I see a lot......Generic guy Dave stops on his way to the office and gets starbucks and a scone and an apple (11 dollars including tip), at lunch he gets Chipotle and a large diet coke (10 dollars), and he gets takeout or door dash for dinner: Thai entree with a side of sushi (24 dollars including tip). There are some groceries in the house and some snacking that takes place. 45 dollars for the day spent for food, not involving getting anything at the grocery store. If 22 days of the month are like this, 1000 dollars a month is spent by this single person before they even go to the grocery store. This is not normal for our history, in fact, I don't think it became even close to normal until about the last 10-12 years. I bring leftovers to the office and eat there. My employees all drive a nicer car than me. Forgive me, I'm not trying to be a martyr or an ass, but I watch people who are middle class living what looks a lot like a wealthy lifestyle from just a few years ago. They may struggle to pay rent or the mortgage, but when I take a 10 second look at them, it jumps out at me that they are struggling because they made choices that financially put them in that struggle. And it is their right to make those choices. I suspect most of us here that got into this hobby scraped our pennies, lived like the poor people we were and found the money for that first collectible car somehow. The younger generation today isn't poorer than we were, they spend money significantly different than we did. If they wanted to buy a 8,000 collectible car they found on Craigslist, they have the income to do it, but it would take making sacrifices somewhere else in their life, which they don't want to do.......more power to them, perhaps they are smarter than we are. Many days I am certain that they are. re-reading this text pretty much confirms what I thought, I'm an old grouchy curmudgeon.... John

I agree, wheels, pinstripes, blackwall/Whitehall, contrast at the belt line, all of those can impact a color that you don’t care for. It is a stunning car, but I grew up calling that color “baby poop brown”. All the parents and grandparents know what I’m talking about.......we’ve all changed our fair share of them. For some reason Toyota offers their version on new Tacoma trucks. I don’t get it. However, for a classic car of that era, I may like it a little more than white.

That is a beautiful car. Not my first choice of colors. Regal is the word that comes to mind.

This speaks to me! For every hour of driving, I spend ten hours drinking coffee or other beverages looking at, tinkering, or admiring the creation. I just love that early thirties look. In my heart in know the solution....... buy both!

I am ok with this, I appreciate the feedback that a 1930 Packard will feel like a totally different experience than a 1940 will. That isn't at all a deal breaker. I have a 65 corvette. It has no resemblance to driving a modern one, and I love it. My 66 MGB and 73 Midget are nothing like a Miata in feel, and I enjoy that. I have two early 50's full size cars, they are floating boats.....love it. Some of the engineering things mentioned do make me pause, the difference in carbs, fuel delivery, wood frames, braking and suspension, etc....but at the end of the day, I feel like as long as I get a good example that has been maintained and is sorted, I'd embrace some of the vintage feel/ride.

What is the first year "post wood framing" on the senior Packards? Pierce Arrow? Cadillac? Lincoln? John

A question for those with lots of experience driving different platforms...... If I drive a well sorted 1930 Packard 733 sedan and an equally well sorted 1940 Packard 160, am I going to think that the driving experience is similar with minor differences, or will I think that the driving is radically different?

In case it wasn’t obvious, let me clarify that my ugly baby comment was not at all directed at Pierce Arrows. I think they are gorgeous! I was reacting to some who were giving Ed a hard time about his “babies”.

This may be true, but I have noticed for years how much of a value that Franklins seem to be. I see nice drivers for 10-14 grand and some very interesting more upscale versions of the marque that are under 20k. They don’t have that sexy look that some other comparable makes have, pretty conservative, but I hear great things from their owners and they seem to have strong club support. if you haven’t been to the Franklin museum in Tucson, Tom Hubbard’s estate, put that on your list. I stumbled on it about 20 years ago and I hit it once or twice a year. A hidden gem.

I am grateful for all the input and advice, just hit the ground back in Chicago 10 minutes ago after visiting my 84 year old dad who has been locked down in an assisted living facility in Clearwater Florida since March. I was going down once a month till Covid hit, but hadn’t seen him for 6 months. chuckling about the banter back and forth concerning the looks of Pierce Arrow........ my dad told me many years ago “never tell someone they have an ugly baby “

This causes me to ask a question I have been trying to figure out as I search different makes. if the “average classic (for comparison purposes)” could be stereotyped as a 134 in WB, straight 8, standard body (let’s not involve coach builders in my question), what is the perceived/estimated prevailing sale prices of the typical example from each Make for : Cadillac, Packard, Pierce Arrow, Chrysler, Lincoln, Franklin, Marmon, Stutz, Cord, Auburn, Nash, Buick, Auburn Studebaker? (US makes only). What I mean by that is if an Auburn was considered the Middle of the road/average/50th percentile........and we pegged it at 1.0 in cost, what is a comparable Lincoln? 1.2? Packard? 1.4? Franklin? .7? keep in mind I’m trying to get a feel for cost of “like models “ (i.e that 134 in WB straight 8 example I gave). Forget about Duesenbergs ..... and I do know that Franklins are 6’s, and many examples I gave have V8 vice straight 8. I hope what I’m trying to ask is clear. I’m not sure if I’m getting my question out clearly like I have in my mind........ john

I will confess I haven’t looked into them much in my research. The pictures and comments in this thread have my attention. I like the long wheelbase and the esthetics. What is the most active club that will have owners and examples of these models and years?

This isn’t a free instrument I got, but rather a free instrument I’ve given. I’m a dentist and when we have stainless steel instruments that break or can’t be used/sharpened, I save them because I have several patients that are old car guys and I offer them to them. They seem to love them, for their small delicate unusual applications. Being stainless helps. Often they are perfect for doing something precise in a small tight space. I have given about 20 of them to a patient who does recreations of vintage military ships for museums. An 8 foot ship recreation of a 700 foot ww2 ship, detail like you wouldn’t believe. Each one takes him a couple of years. stuff like this:

I always think of the Jensen Interceptor like the Cobra, A body handbuilt in England with a US (Chrysler) engine. John

I totally agree, I remember when Dino's were 50K, now I see them at 250K. In the same dynamic, I remember when a nice 914 was 5K, now that car is being listed for 25K.......

This thread had me go find some pics of mine. Just looking at them makes me want one again. I have had lots of other sports cars, multiple MGs, corvettes, Alfa’s, BMW z3,.......... the 914 was such a different gig.

My dad was the Superintendent of schools at our rural Indiana town. My car genes didn't come from him. "practical" was the best and most logical thing to look for in a car from dad's point of view. First year teachers were driving Monte Carlos and Grand Prixs, and Cutlasses. My dad the Superintendent was driving a Chevette. You know them, cheapest most awful thing around. Made the Vega look like a quality car in comparison. When I went off to Wabash College as a freshman, he proudly gave me his 8 year old, 49,000 miles, baby red Chevette as a "good car to have in college". I headed off to Crawfordsville Indiana, moved into the fraternity house and two weekends later saw a tired but shiny red 1973 Porsche 914 in a used car lot. I traded the Chevette for it straight up, and didn't tell my dad till I came home for Christmas break in the 914. Periodically you read about a parent murdering their child. In a few rare instances, the parent may be justified..... I sold the 914 to a stripper in Tucson to help fund my wedding. Surely there is something profound in that, but not sure exactly what. Still wish I had that car going through some beautiful fall foliage with the targa top off. If you haven't driven one, don't knock them. When set up and running well, they are a blast considering their anemic horsepower.

Hey Mike and everyone..........no worries about the different comments/input about my post. They are all educational. Many of them have caused me to look at some smaller production Independents that I might not have looked at. I have not bought anything, somewhat because it isn't a "necessity" and the uncertainty of the economic future and my responsibilities to my family make me want to "keep my powder dry" just in case (I am pathologically conservative with money, got it from my dad, who could squeeze a nickel). This thread has supported my instincts/impulse that I want something earlier than later, even if there are some compromises to be made with sustained touring speeds in the 50-60 MPH range. It comes down to my eye, beauty is difficult to define. I feel like something earlier in the 30's, in a closed car will have me thrilled with what a beautiful piece of machinery has come into my care, and maybe for a second prewar car, I would gravitate towards the later 30's (Packard 8 or super 8, or series 62/75 Cadillac). There is a car I'm interested in, but it has been driven very little in the last ten years and I don't think I could live with the paint. It would need to be bought at a price point that would reflect that. This is an example of the look that causes my pulse to tick up a bit.... Something that I feel would fit into my budget for a first example Classic. From Gilmore.......

The aluminum roller with peanut butter on a five fallen bucket is savage. It will draw them in, wipe them out, and you won’t see them anymore.

“No modifications irreversible, can be returned to stock very easily “

Wife to husband..... ”I thought you said we’d meet lots of nice people from classic car ownership. It almost seems like people are avoiding us”