pepcak

Dave, thanks for hint, I think I should have been able to find it by myself. Will give them a try. I think the key feature are the window wooden frames. Some 2 yrs ago I have spotted 1927 Paige selling in Great Britain on e-bay, for a moment I thougt someone was selling my car, making joke about it. If you look at the wooden structure around the windows, door hinges location and the roof, its exactly the same, only the doors being "suicidal" on the Paige. Unfortunately the seller was not very cooperative and was not able to provide more details about the car. Question is - is this a factory Paige job or who built this one? If its factory Paige job, then possibly someone married Buick chassis with Paige body. If not, we are still in the beginning....Josef

Few pictures of door hardware. Maybe anybody recognises the builder?

Dave, thanks for update. So looks like this one did not come via regular channel of GM/Buick distribution but somehow "aside". Until now I dont consider the option of "california top" very probable (look at the door and B column proportions on my limo and factory 28-49) in such a case they would also have to change all the door internal mechanisms; but never say never. One more observation from your pictures guys, the Indian and UK car have identical side lamps on front fenders, while missing usual cowl lamps close to windscreen. Not sure if these are kind of "Royal feature" but my car has cowl lamps and no signs of anything placed on top of front fenders..... That spanish 28-49 has also usual cowl lamps only. Josef I will provide more pictures and findings once we pull the body off.

Hi, Thanks for all your questions, I guess this can put more light on this mystery or at least give us some direction. I can talk only from Czech Republic prospective. This car has proven local history from 1933 on, but obviously can be bought "second hand" from Germany, Austria or another country. 1) All cars made locally in former Czechoslovakia until, say, mid to late 30s were strictly RHD as we used to drive on LEFT side. In 1939 a guy named Adolf Hitler came in and changed it overnight. But it would change sooner / later anyway, he just speed it up. I would say importers did not cared much where the steering wheel has been located. In mid and late 20s we have some number of US cars imported, not only cheap ones like Ford As but also some Packards, Marmons, LaSalles, even Cadillacs, I have seen Moon, Roosevelt and couple of other "exotic ones" imported in those days. GM had agency in Prague, selling Chevrolets, Buicks etc. Lots of cars have been imported as a chassis only due to huge custom taxes. My theory is that this came as a true 28-49 touring though, having motor cover, front and rear fenders and side aprons factory made. Then, the owner wanted "closed" car instead and let someone build limo on it. The look of beltlines is very american, but the wooden structure and window framing seems to me very diffent to what I have seen on any Buick. 2) No coutry here in middle of Europe has never been part of British commonwealth. 3) Even in prewar Czechoslovakia (with some 8m people then) we have few of bodybuilders building Hispano Suizas, Bugattis, Packards, Chryslers and local makes. So it can easily be "local" job. 4) This is more difficult question, in 1918 the Austro Hungarian monarchy was destroyed and Bohemia & Slovakia become united republic, refusing (or at least not publicly showing) all old Austro / Hungarian links. Of course there were rich individuals from "old times" and with "old connections" but they were not on public eyes that much.... 5) The LHD is factory made, even the first car in parade at Bills picture is clearly LHD (unless the picture is mirrored). I do not know what was / is Canadian standard then and now, but Bill also talks about "converting" it for Uk islands. 6) We plan to pull the body off in few weeks time, I will made some pictures and hopefully open the drivers doors finally (they are completely frozen now) maybe there is some plate there. 7) This is quite possible, at least british royal family (who else?) recognised some difference between Buick and McLaughlin Buick. I do not see any value added if local dealer offered and sold Buick or McLaughlin Buick, the cars apparently (from local prospective) being identical. If the car was imported to Czechoslovakia, then possibly not to the king / queen (see above) but for example to some church authority etc. Sorry for rather longish replies, but I wanted to put things into right perspective..... Josef

Wow, excellent finds and pictures, thanks! I have recently got the pictures of factory built 28-50 L (limo with divider) and can confirm my car is NOT factory job. Still wonder who made it as it is not sort of "backyard" job.

Hi, thanks to our Indian friends we now have ID of the Royal 28-49. It is Serial# 138575 engine# 2013551. I have received picture of the plate and everything there is as it should be. No "R" mentioned after 28-49 designation. Canadian royal car is Serial# 139645 engine# 2034106. Thanks, Karl.

The flat radiator looks like Praga, made by Prague based company from approx. 1909. The tulip body was also used on Praga cars around 1920 despite I cannot find any good picture. I have attached a picture of first Czechoslovakian president T.G. Masaryk arriving into Prague in 1921 in Praga Grand automobile. They have changed radiator style in early 1920s, using what we call "nail radiator". The colour picture with the "nail" radiator type is Praga Mignon 1923. So I would conclude the car could be Praga Grand 1919-20-21.

Hi, in case you decide to part it out, I am interested in the instrument panel. Josef

Hi, I would be interested in whole 1930 panel,would you sell it? Thanks Josef

Hi, I am attaching the link for nice speedster built in Britain. http://www.old-timers.cz/index.php?optio...=45〈=en Josef

Hi, there is Jordan for sale in Czech Republic anyone interested? Josef http://www.aukro.cz/item568602160_jordan_r_v_1926.html

Hi, one of local guys here sells a Jordan.... Its based in Prague, Czech Republic. Let me know if its of any interest for you. Josef http://www.aukro.cz/item568602160_jordan_r_v_1926.html

Guys, slightly different items, same story. Some time ago I have advertised on british server to buy 1929 Ariel parts. An email came offering whatever I might need, but no pictures, no specification on part, but at least 3 payment options mentioned. When I asked for pictures the guy provided the picture of the shiny complete bike the guy from MY neiborough town has and cares of. The kind of a bike no-one would part out and I know the owner in person, his bike is on the first link when you enter "1929 Ariel" into Google.... Josef

...spanish car plate, cant read it though....

Dave, Do not forget the 28-49 touring in the Spanish report (in Spain??) so in total we have 4 Canadian built 28-49s preserved until today. <span style="font-weight: bold">Ideally if we can find the serial and engine nr. for cars in India and in Spain.</span> To put some reasons against my car being Royal is left hand steering and 375 distance from the known serial nr. in Canada. I would not call it a "sedan" because it has nice divider with sliding windows between driver and passengers, "limousine" (like 50L) seems more convenient for me :-) And yes, I will post the type designators here as promised. Josef

I have done some Googling in between and found out, there were 3 Royal McLaughlins 28-49 built in 1927 - 2 for Prince of Wales visit to Canada, third one for Indian Maharaja. (Peter Pigott - Royal Transport ISBN 9781550025729). One of them (Serial# 139645 engine# 2034106) is in Canadian museum. http://www.sciencetech.technomuses.ca/english/collection/index.cfm The Indian one appeared last autumn in Cartier meet in India (at least Buick Touring in proper colours:-) http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintage-ca...s-report-3.html (nice pictures!) Does anybody know the serial# and engine# for these 2 cars? And where is the third one?

Guys, all posts regarding 28-49 McLaughlin in Prague has been moved into own thread, see http://forums.aaca.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/573935 Sorry for mixing them up with 1936 topic. Josef

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7buick7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">About the Rolls story, although I have not been able to verify this myself, I have read that Buick advertising people used this in a 1940 advert. Without directly naming Rolls they mentioned the fact that "a famed English car builder" bought a Limited every year". </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveCorbin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear Josef: I checked the numbers you give for the 1928 McLaughlin model 49 and can tell you that 139645 is a 1928 Mclaughlin serial number and engine 2,034,106 is the right size engine for a model 49. The frame numbers for the 2 USA Buicks were: 1,932,864 and 1,932,865. I would expect the engine numbers in those 2 cars to be between 1,990,500 and 2,015,499. By the normal Buick model numbering system, a model 49 would be a 7 passenger touring car, probably on the 120 inch wheebase for 1928, although the 128 inch wheelbase is also a possibilty. It appears that there are more cars from Canada. Please check your McLaughlin list and post it so I can see how it is the same and how it is different from the Buick list. You mentioned in an earlier post that the car had been rebodied. The possibility of having a model 49 plate and a model 50 body needs to be checked. Regards, Dave Corbin </div></div>

Dave, 1) I have a part list for 1928 Master models titled "McLaughlin Buick" (not "Buick") and there is model designation list at the front. I dont have it in front of me but I would bet that model designation is the same as US products i.e. 28-50 is 7pass sedan, 28-50L 7pass limo with divider, 28-49 7 pass touring etc. 2) If you look at the plate above, the designators are the same as for US cars. I wouldnt think they used same designators for different body style than US couterpart. 3) The Spanish report we talked about is also about Canadian made 28-49 that is 7 pass touring. I did not tell you I never opened the driver door, because they are frozen for whatever reason, so there may be a builder tag there.... 4) Royal 28-49 was also 7 pass touring; all sources I have seen so far mention 2(3) cars built, one (Serial# 139645 engine# 2034106) is preserved in Canadian museum. Where is the second (and third) one? Does anybody know their serial and engine#? I do not dare to say that "R" stands for "Royal” with serial nr. “just” 375 apart.... :-)) Mystery goes on......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveCorbin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear Josef: It looks like the McLaughlin equivalent to a Buick 1928 Model 50 sedan. McLaughlin used their own model designators, so I'm not exactly sure what a model 49 McLaughlin is. The R is even more of a mystery since the car isn't right hand drive. Since Buick exported all over the world, an export (X) car is not always RHD. There were even some RHD cars for the USA for postal delivery work. Regards, Dave Corbin </div></div>

Dave, its 128 inches as one would expect, left hand steering. I have understood that (Flint) export cars had right hand steering and X designation. This one is not the case. At the picture is the guy I bought the car from. There is no body builder tag anywhere.... The common praxis in pre-war Czechoslovakia was to import chassis only (due to high import duties) and build the body locally. As you can see its a bit different from common Fisher jobs (much longer rear portion and windows in wood framing) on the other hand the double beltline is very "american" to me, wings and side aprons are true factory parts. Windscreen is horizontally split what would implicate usage of "touring" windscreen. Not sure if the rear portion of a "touring" is that long though. Some time ago I have seen Graham Paige for sale in Great Britain having exactly the same style of window wood frames. Some of door hardware is stamped "Bororo" what I think was Italian lock manufacturer. External door handles are beaten brass, valve rocker cover is thick nickel plated, front (drivers seats) are leather, rear compartment is in cloth.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveCorbin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear Josef: Is the car right hand drive? I can't tell for sure from the picture. Also, is that you in the picture? Could you measure the wheelbase of the car and post it? (The distance between the centerline of the front axle and the centerline of the rear axle is "wheelbase".) If you post in metric, that's ok for me. It's probably 120 inches or 128 inches. (3.05 meters or 3.25 meters) Regards, Dave Corbin </div></div>

Dave, thanks for the info. It makes perfectly sense, one would not expect that the engine has been changed/replaced here in middle of Europe... Any idea what "R" after model designation does mean? And, also I would be interested in the Rolls testing Buick components story.. Thanks again Josef

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveCorbin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear Pepcak: It looks like a numbers match McLaughlin plate to me. McLaughlin serial numbers for 1928 ran from 134001 to 144987. This would put 140320 about 60% of the way thru the model year. The engine number of 2,091,312 is about 47% of the way thru the 1928 Buick engine number run from 1,960,500 to 2,240,299 or the 130,812th engine among 279,799 engines. This is acounted for because of the shipping time from Flint to McLaughlin in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada. This causes the car to be later in the year than the engine. I hope this helps. Regards, Dave Corbin PS: For the rest of us, this is a good example of one of the reasons engine numbers are higher than frame numbers. </div></div>