Ron42Dodge

Do you have a list?

Dave, It looks like the 2103 could have came with either a IGT distributor or a Delco Remy. I thought they were the same but I guess not quite. The Shurhit books have one more line the others do not (The IGT Distributor). And they break down the model numbers better. I focused on the 2103. So depending on whether you have a Delco Remy system or and IGT might determine which contact set you need. My Shurhit books say (I added the equals)1941-47 Packard (8 cyl) 1903-08, 2003-08, 2103-06, (IGT dist) Shurhit 86 (equals Autolite 1-14)1947 Packard (8 cyl) 2101, 2103, 2106, 2111, (D.R dist) Shurhit 72 (equals Delco Remy 1871870 = 1918148 = 1938330) (Equals Echlin CS-77, CS-777, CS-77A) My Napa Book saysAll 1940-54 Packard (8 cyl) with Autolite Dist Echlin CS-16All 1940-51 Packard 160 and 180 Custom with Autolite Dist Echlin CS-17All 1947-58 Packard with Delco Remy Dist Echlin CS-77, CS-77A or CS-777A (no mention of the IGT dist) And the Echlin Charts shows1946-47 Packard (8 cyl) 2103, 2104, 2105 Super (Autolite dist) Echlin CS-171947-48 Packard (8 cyl) 2200 Series (delco dist) Echlin CS-77, CS-777, CS-777A (equals delco remy 1871870 = 1918148 = 1938330) (Equals Shurhit 72)But if the IGT Dist is different like Shurhit suggests..... So then I realized I have both a CS-77 and an Autolite 1-12 for sale on ebay so I merged the pictures so you can compare. They are like opposites. Clear as mud now.

Dave, These books are so confusing as they don't match According to that Echlin table you would use the CS-17 which they say is an Autolite Distributor on the 2103. But my Shurhit Book says the 2103 came with both a Delco Remy Dist (IGT). You may want to look at your distributor to see if there is a number on it to see what it really has. My Shurhit book at home say Shurhit 72 was used on 1947 packard 2103 delco Remy dist. which replaces delco remy points 1871870 or 1918148. So they might not be the correct ones You have an equal to Shurhit 87. My book at home does not have the interchange table so I'll look tomorrow to see the equviant for 72.

My 1960 Autolite book goes back to 1949 Packard. So far 1-14 should work on 1949-50 Packard 2306, 2313, 2326, 2333 (8 cyl) I'll let you know if there is more when I get my other book.

My current 1960 autolite book stops at 1950 and is at home. So I'll cross reference. The Autolite 1-14 interchanges with Shurhit 86. That is said to fit 1941-47, 8 cyl Packard 1903-08, 2003-08, 2103-06 with IGT distributors. Also fits 1948-50, 8 cyl. (2206, 2226, 2233, 2306, 2333 (IGT Dist.) I have a 1947 Autolite Book coming in the mail. I'll see it it has any answers. I found this chart on line the other day. It shows Echlin numbers, not Autolite. The chart does not appear to cover 1941-47 8 Cyl with DR dist. I don't know much about Packards but it appears that according to the Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-75, the 1947 Super Clipper was an 8 cylinder model, model number 2103 They also made a custom Super Clipper 8 series model 2106 and an extended version 2126. For your car you need to verify what kind of distributor you have, Autolite Distributor (IGP) or a Delco Remy (IGT) ? According to the chart the 2103 would have had an Autolite Distributor and used Echlin CS17 for a Super Clipper and CS-16 for 41-47 , 8 cyl but it also shows model 2103 there. My Napa book says CS-17 was used on 1940-51 Packard, All 160 & 180 Custom with Autolite Dist. It also says CS-16 was used on all 8 Cyl 1940-54 with Autolite Dist. Using a Shurhit Parts Catalog for these same years The Shurhit 83 and 87 would work on the 41 - 47 * cyl. Packards with IGP dist (Autolite). Those interchange with Autolite 1-10 and 1-12 respectively. I have some of these 1-12. I don't know if this helps at all.

Stagger. I don't have a lot of experience with the Chrysler shifting however the shifting operation is independent of the fluid drive unit. I found a previous conversation on these years Chysler transmisions titled "1950 Chrysler Windsor transmission problems" De Soto Frank posted "Chrysler semi-automatics are NOT automatic trannies, and ATF should never be used in them !!! (They are semi-self-shifting manual transmissions.) ATF in the transmission itself will probably not do much harm, but ATF in the Fluid coupling can destroy the seal. Chrysler semi-automatics (M-4 Simplimatic(vacuum operated), M-5 and M-6 (Hydraulically operated) use SAE-#10 or 10W motor oil in the transmission, and "MoPar Fluid Drive Fluid" in the Fluid Coupling. A safe alternative to MoPar Fluid Drive Fluid has been identified as an ISO-132 Tractor Hydraulic Fluid, available at some Sam's Clubs, and Tractor Supply Company, among other places. If you're only topping-up the Fluid Coupling, SAE-10 motor oil is acceptable. Th Chrysler semi-auto is a beast unto itself, mosty likely born out of Chrysler's unwillingness to pay GM for its Hydramatic technology. As to the harsh shifting, if the correct fluids are being used everywhere, and the idle speed is set correctly (no more than 450 rpm), I would look for a problem in the electrical controls (possibly sticking governor points) or internal problems in the transmission... Another possiblility might be if ATF is in the transmission, when it gets warm, it might be losing enough viscosity to cause a drop in oil pressure, requiring you to get the vehicle's speed up higher to create enough pressure for up-shift... A factory shop manual will have excellent trouble-shooting proceedure on this, reprints are available from a number of Chrysler parts vendors; also there is info in the Imperialist web-site, in the form of factory service bulletins. Good luck... " I know enough to be dangerous The important thing (I think) is whether you have a M-4, Vacuum advanced or M-5 or M-6 Hydraullic advanced transmission. The Vacuum advanced ones had a rubber bladder that could tear or leak with age. I believe if you have this problem you can burn valves if not addressed. The hydraullic advancing trannys could be just the proper fluid. I could be wrong but for some reason I was thinking the enging and tranny could have shared the same oil during a certain years production. I would try and determine which transmission you have and search posts on that. I'm not sure about the ATF in the fluid coupling comment as I have had Dextron III in my fluid coupling for 15 years but I could not find any information at the time and went by what one experienced guy told me.. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will see my mention of the M-4, M-5 and M-6 trannys and correct everything I said.

Can I ask what years this parts book covers?

With the color of the oil drip it appears to be motor oil and the rear main seal is where the front of the fluid drive bolts up to the back of the engine. But if it were the fluid drive, depending on what is in there for fluid in the fluid drive would determine the color of a leak would be there. I have Dextron III in mine so if my fluid drive was leaking it would be red oil. The oil looks really clean. Did you recently change it? Use any different oil like synthetic this time? Could your oil filter housing be dripping onto the engine and fining its way down?

I agree, the Town Sedan is a rare body style for back then. According to the Standard Catalog of American Cars they made 16,074 1941 Dodge D-19 6P Town Cars and 22,318 of the 2P 2 Door business coupes. Between the Custom and the Deluxe models they made 121,646 6P 4 door sedans with the 119.5 " wheel base with the suicide doors. Only the 5P Convertible (3,554) and the long wheel base 7P sedan (601) and 7P Limo (50) are more rare. Your Town car does have a good look to it. Enjoy. Ron

That's great news! It took me along time to get use to this easy concept. Have you seen the video I posted on the 1942 Dodge driven by Jimmie Lynch. It's on you tube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z16M1Lo257A There are all kinds of things you can now try, or not. The stair climb is interesting. Enjoy.

Joe. That link is for and automatic shifting Chrysler fluid drive unit. The Dodge does not automatically shift, it is still a manual shift system. There is no solenoid, governor, relay or kick down switch on the Dodge. That link might be more confusing. I agree with the majority of Crycoman's input although I don't like the term engaged, although I know what he means. The fluid drive unit is bolted to the engine crankshaft so that is what is always engaged. However internally the front half and the back half are never engaged physically. It is only the stiring action of the fluid from the engine turning the fluid drive assembly which also turns the front half of the internal "driving member" that turns the back internal "driven member". Both members are stamped steel with welded fins. The driving and driven members should have no mechanical connection between each other and that is why I don't like the term always engaged. If the driving and driven members are stuck together, then possibly moisture got in there and the 2 rusted together. If there was a bad seal and the car sank into the dirt so the fluid drive was into the dirt, it is possible that during heavy rain the unit could have been partially submerged and water leaked in at the bad seal. A lot of stars lining up there but it could happen. That is where I like the parking on the hill test with the engine off but the car in gear. If you let your foot off the brake the car should roll. If the driving and driven members are fused together it won't. (Although if you have really bad compression in the engine the car might roll too) But you do need brakes for this test so get those working right first. I would think that if the unit was somehow fused together it would be out of balance and shake a lot when you are driving. When you pull the filler plug you are staring at the driven member and its fins. You could look for signs of rust. I'm gradually getting use to using my fluid drive. I do come to complete stops in what ever gear I'm in. If I'm going to sit at a light I tend to push the clutch in once I'm stopped just because it seems easier on the engine idle. Then when the light is about to change I let the clutch out at idle and drive off. I usually start in second gear unless I'm on an incline. I am really curious as to what is going on. Any chance someone took it out or are you sure it even has one. It was a rare option in 1941.

If the noise is near the fluid drive area, I wonder if something has fallen into the area that covers the unit or worse yet, your graphite ring at the seal has crumbled. I am attaching a diagram of the fluid drive unit and the clutch. The starter uses the perimeter teeth to turn the engine. The engine turns the outside shell which the front inner turbine is attached to. The other turbine is attached to the clutch plate. There is a small gap between the two turbines. I believe there are 2 drain plugs on opposite sides of the fluid drive. The service hole is on the passenger side of the transmission hump close to the firewall. There is a cover plate which allows you to see the unit. You usually have to use a wide blade screw drive pressed against the base of a fin to try and rotate the unit until you can see a service plug. The real trick is removing the plug without dropping it into the housing. There is only about 1/4" of threads. The service hole is intentionally off from top dead center so the unit is never completely full. You can fill it until the fluid is up to the threads. There are many oppinions on what to use for fluid. I think they all seem to work. I think I used dextron III transmision fluid. Getting the fluid in without making a mess is the challange because you want to be able to tell if your seal is leaking, so you don't want to spill. There is a belows seal 9-46-55 and a graphite ring seal 9-46-58. The graphite ring can crumble if irregular pressure is put on the ring. I remember when my graphite ring broke and I drained the unit and took the fluid drive out, I could hear pieces inside. It may be possible that a chunk of your ring is lodges between the turbimes but I would think it would break quickly because it is only graphite. If you try and remove the fluid drive you have to remove the drive shaft, transmission ans clutch first. There is a bottom cover that hides the clutch and fluid drive and as I recall you have to lossen a body bolt to get the cover off. As I recall there are about 8 studs 9-46-10 that bolt the fluid drive to the back of the crank shaft of the engine. There is not enough room to unscrew the nuts all the way so you have to lossen them part way and slide the unit a little to get the nuts off. If you are laying under this the fluid drive weighs around 50 pounds and the cooling fins feel wonderfull if you rest it on your chest. This may be where you are headed. Or maybe you will luck out and something just crawled into the housing cover and is scaping the unit as it turns. I would try checking the fluid level and if low, add some fluid. Then watch for leaks. Once it gets above half way it will be at the seal height and will leak if the seals are bad. Keep me advised if you can.

Bill, Yes I have a 42 Dodge with Fluid Drive. I had some stalling problems with it until I got the proper rebuild kit. One problem I had in the very beginning my clutch disc was stuck to the face of the clutch plate and that would not left go when I pushed in the clutch. But that was a whole different set of problems. If the clutch is engaged (pedal let out) and the car moves, it could be working properly. The fluid drive units don't normally need service unless the seal goes bad and then the leak to about half full. They are like two turbines facing each other and when the one connected to the engine spins, the stirring action of the fluid turns the other. There is not a lot of power loss unless your fluid is low. I actually spun my wheels once by acident when I was fighting my vacuum advance and some idling issues. But just because the car moves in gear does not mean the fluid drive unit is seized. The turbines do not touch so the only way I think that could happen is if your fluid turned into a solid. Since the fluid is an oil and the unit is sealed, there shouldn't a lot of room for contaminants. If the seal was bad and the fluid drive was half full when put away for a long time, I supose there is a possibily of moist air getting in and rusting enevtuallythe top half. Try the hill test. If you are on a decent hill in gear with the engine off, and you take your foot off the brake, normally the fluid drive will allow the car to roll. (That was the case at my first car show when I did not know this.) I did have to have my seal replaced and I shipped mine to Northwest Transmission I belive in Winchester, Ohio. The first carb kit I bought did not have the pump for the dash pot. I now have a spare kit jus in case. It is a Stromberg RK-143 kit for the BXVD-3 Carb for 1942-48 Dodge passenger cars with fluid drive. Not sure why that kit number would not work on your year. A good service parts source is andy bernbaum and also Robert's Motor Parts. They both have catalogs on line. The metal noise could be your water pump. It has a grease zerk. Use marine grease on that. I don't have any leads on a business coupe. Feel free to ask questions. I'll try and help. Ron

I've attached 5 scans of the Carburetor service section. Pages 142 and 143 deal with the Dash Pot. I've highlighted a few things.

You may not have a fluid drive problem. It could be a carburetor problem. Off the top of my head I can't think of a reason the front half of the unit would seize to the back half. If you were low on fluid the unit would spin but move the car poorly, if at all. The unit should never be filled 100%. That is why the service panels are offset from the center of the hump. The first test I would do is to park on a hill and leave it in gear and shut the engine off. If you take your foot off the brake the car should roll if the fluid drive unit isn't seized up. There should be no rigid connection between the engine and the transmission with a fluid drive. You need a good parking brake. What I suspect is your carburetor needs a rebuild, or you possibly have the wrong carb on. Yours should be a Stromberg BXVD-3. The fluid drive carbs have an an acelerator pump and a deceleration pump ( I believe it is called a Dash Pot). The deceleration pump holds the idle up a little while the car is coming to a stop and this allows the fluid in the drive to start spinning to do its job. If that pump isn't working properly the car will likely stall. Check your Shop service manual for adjustment.

Here's another item I'm not sure of. Autolite Steelductor ignition wire. 7 strands of stainless steel wire instead of 19 strands of copper. Claims easier starting, Higher top speed, Lower idling, less misfiring from fouled plugs, less burning of spark plugs electrodes and breaker points, internal corona avoided, heat hazard reduced and less radio interference. Claims 25% higher peak seconadary voltages. This particular kit is Silver Sheathed and fits my 1942 Dodge as well as other 31 - 42 Mopars and 33 - 42 Olds and Pontiac and 38 - 42 Studebaker The bottom of the box notes the rubber nipples were omitted to conserve critical war materials Anybody ever try these?

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Did you send the money by USPS? If so you can also open a case with them. I had that happen when I purchased parts through a magazine ad and I mailed a check and never got the parts. I filed a complaint with the post office and 1 year later a check was issued to me from the sellers account. Doesn't hurt to start the ball rolling.

So I was wandering through the bone yard today getting an alternator for my daily driver when I ran acrossa 1966 Plymouth Fury with Factory AC I believe. I was on a limited time schedule so I just took pictures. I first noticed the Air temp sticker in the rear window and the tinted windows all around. Then I noticed the Compressor under the hood was missing but the unit under the dash was there with the ducts and vents. The VIN number began with PH23G2 Is this worth pulling or are these a dime a dozen? The Head and Carb were just sitting in the trunk. Windows were all there, door handles there. Exterior mirrors were missing. Seats gone. This thing won't be there much longer so speak up if there is some hard to find pieces. Hate to see things crushed.

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I recently picked up a 1943 Nebraska Driver's Manual. I found the rules of the road and illustrations interesting and entertaining and I thought I would share.

So I'll ask since I don't know, How good do the brakes work. Can you lock them up or are they not that good. I've never know how good they should be. I've adjusted them using an Ammco 1750 tool and I got them better than they were before I had the tool, but mine don't lock up. Should they?

My 42 Dodge cruises comfortably at around 53 MPH. I can go faster and I have had it above 60 however the comfort level drops quickly. Braking on these cars doesn't come close to modern cars nor does cornering. Add narrow bias ply tires and grooved roads... I used to try and keep up with traffic but I've decided it is easier to go slower. If someone cuts you off, they get ahead of you quicker if I'm going slower. I've considered an overdrive and actually have one in hand but I am only considering it to reduce RPMs, not keep up. The early 50's Plymouth manual overdrive is the same physical size as I recall. Just need to swap the input shaft for my fluid drive shaft. If I put it in I would probably do up to 60. More people get to see my car if I drive slower. Make sure the engine is cooling evenly. It could be a bigger problem at higher RPMs. The cooling tube may need replacement. I have had one bad situation where I think going slow actually saved me. I was doing 53 on a 65 MPH 4 lane divided highway. People were passing and waving. Then one idiot appeared and decided to pass me on the shoulder instead. He zigged and zagged in traffic ahead until he lost control, launched through the median, flew out of his car and laid dead on the other side of the road, about 40 seconds after passing me. Traffic came to a real quick stop and I was able to do the same because there was a reasonable gap that evolved in front of me. I'm not sure if I was doing 60 if I could have stopped in time. Unless you have disc brakes, I would say keep the speed down and enjoy the drive. I do use Marvel Mystery Oil as my car had an Inverse Oiler on it when I got it and it still works.

According to the 1942 Plymouth Parts List Book, The 1942 Plymouth was made at 3 plants and has 2 sets of serial numbers for each plant. One for the P14S-Deluxe and one for the P14C-Special Deluxe Those numbers are as follows: Detroit P14S-Deluxe 15,135,501 to 15,153,935 meaning 18,434 produced. Pre-blackout up to 15,150781. 3,154 Blackout models Produced. That is 17.1%. P14C-Special Deluxe 11,399,501 to 11,494,048 meaning 94,547 produced. Pre-blackout up to 11,474,830. 19,218 blackout models Produced. That is 20%. Los Angles P14S-Deluxe 3,134,501 to 3,136,266 meaning 1,766 produced. Pre-blackout up to 3,136,084. 182 Blackout Models Produced. That is 10.3%. P14C-Special Deluxe 3,297,001 to 3,306,756 meaning 9,756 produced. Pre-blackout up to 3,305,324. 1,432 Blackout Models Produced. That is 14.67% Evansville P14S-Deluxe 22,037,001 to 22,041,356 meaning 4,356 produced. Pre-blackout up to 22,040,399. 957 Blackout Models Produced. That is 22%. P14C-Special Deluxe 20,148,001 to 20,164,436 meaning 16,436 produced. Pre-blackout up to 20,160,112. 4,324 Blackout models Produced. That is 29.9% Windsor 9,829,856 to 9,836,986 (There does not appear to be a breakdown between the P14S and P14C models) 7,131 produced. A total of 147,028 P-14 Plymouths were made between all the plants. Motor numbers run from P14-1001 to P14-149161. 148,161 motors produced ,1,133 more than cars. Always want spares. What is interesting is the Canadian cars used the 218.6 block instead of the American 217.8 block. That has to make rebuilding more challenging. It appears there were 24,556 P14S-Deluxe Plymouths made in total and of that 4,293 were blackouts. That is 17.48% of the production. It appears there were 120,739 P14C-Special Deluxe Plymouths made in total and of that 24,974 were blackouts. That is 20.68% of the production. According to the 1942 Desoto Parts list Book, The 1942 DeSoto shows 3 series of serial numbers: The S10 Custom was 5,771,001 to 5,783,503 meaning 12,503 produced. The S10 Deluxe was 6,142,001 to 6,150,099 meaning 8,099 produced. The S10 Started with 6,150,100 but no ending number was listed in the Parts List. These cars have painted mouldings except 6,150,210, 211, 212, 424, 425, 426,427, 428, 711 and 712 had S10 deluxe grilles. I would be curious to know what models these exceptions were. My 1954 Parts book show the 1942 Desoto serial numbers up to 6,153,101. That seems to say there were at least 2,991 Blackout models. That's 14.51% of the production. The motor numbers ran from s10-1001 to s10-25551 indicating 24,551 motors produced for 23,604 cars. That's about 947 extra motors. Spares are good. According to the 1942 Chrysler Parts List Book, The 1942 Chrysler had 5 sets of serial numbers. C34S (Royal) ran from 70,001,001 to 70,010,204 meaning 9,204 produced. Pre-blackout up to 70,009390. 814 Blackout models produced. That is 8.8% C34W (Windsor) ran from 70,501,001 to 70,514,501 meaning 13,501 produced. Pre-blackout up to 70,512,867. Roughly 1,634 Blackouts were produced although station wagons after 70512704 were blackouts too. That is 12.1% C34 motor numbers ran from 1001-23922 meaning 22,922 produced for 22,705 cars. 217 extra motors produced. C36K (Saratoga) ran from 6,762,501 to 6,764,097 meaning 1,597 produced. Pre-blackout up to 6.763,877. 220 Blackouts were produced. That is 13.7% C36N (New Yorker) ran from 6,674,201 to 6,684,754 meaning 10,554 produced. Pre-blackout up to 6,682,412. 2342 blackouts were produced. That is 22.1% C36 motor numbers ran from C36-1001 to C36-13526 meaning 12,526 produced for 12,151cars. 375 extra motors produced. C37 (Crown Imperial) ran from 7,808,401 to 7,808,850 meaning 450 produced. No blackout starting number was noted so Imperials were probably spared from blackout. They say the C37 Crown Imperial used the same Motor as the New Yorker and Saratoga but I have no C37 motor info. C37-1001 to ? And as I stated before, According to the 1942 Dodge Parts List Book, the 1942 Dodge serial numbers ranged from 30,577,001 to 30,644,377 in 1942. 67,377 produced. Up to approximately serial number 30,636,724 was considered pre-blackout. Roughly only 7,653 cars were factory blackouts, or roughly 11.3%. The motor numbers run from D22-1001 to D22-68416 which means 67,416 motors for 67,376 cars. 40 extra motors. When your good you don't need spares. Motor numbers came from the Standard Catalog of American Cars 1805-1942, 3rd edition.

What trim pieces are different from the pre blackout pieces? Any pictures? I could be wrong but my impression with blackout models is, the painted trim did not match the car from the factory. It was usually a greyish color. At the factory, cars were painted prior to the trim being put on and color coordination would be a nightmare so I believe each brand got one color. Dodge eliminated some trim by installing Deluxe fenders in lieu of the Custom fenders. This saved trim and paint. Cars that were already delivered to the dealership but not sold by January 1, had to have the trim painted so there would be no unfair sales advantage. Color selection was probably up for grabs. Below are pictures of a 1942 Dodge Blackout Convertible. I believe these were taken in 1948 so these are probably pretty accurate as to how it left the factory. Again, Deluxe fenders on a Custom Car just means less trim so these fenders never had holes for the extra trim. My convertible came the same way too although mine is not a blackout. As I recall, the factory build ticket had a hand written note "Less trim", or something like that. But the delivery date was December 26, 1941 so it was before the official blackout date. I'll have to dig that out again. Below are factory photos of a 1942 Dodge Blackout model as well as a blackout waiting to be restored. In all these examples, the bumpers were chrome and the trim was painted. Below is a Blackout hood ornament next to a Chrome one. In some cases trim was already chromed prior to being painted. In those cases it was a feel good effort because it didn't save any nickel or copper. I don't know what's under the paint of this hood ornament and I don't want to violate the paint to find out. I've seen several "Blackout" cars where the pieces that should be chrome are painted to match the car body. In some of these cases I think they saved restoration money on chrome. But when serial numbers can show it is a factory blackout, than it is a blackout. I suspect only the cars that were already on the lot were the ones that the trim paint might match the exterior paint. Dealers may not have know what chrome had to be painted so they painted everything, inside and out. I don't know if a car that was painted at the dealership is an official blackout model in AACA terms. Never thought about it. One of the easiest ways to tell if yours is a blackout is to get a "1942 Parts List" book for your car. They breakout the part numbers for prime or white (painted) pieces vs the chrome pieces and usually have a serial number range. As an example, Dodge serial numbers ranged from 30,577,001 to 30,644,377 in 1942. 67,377 produced. Up to approximately serial number 30,636,724 was considered pre-blackout. Roughly only 7,653 cars were factory blackouts, or roughly 11.3%. I've got the Plymouth , Desoto and Chrysler parts books, I'll try and get back to list those transition numbers for them too. I'ld be interested to hear other points of view or observations. Below is a car that is said to be a blackout with the dash trim matching the exterior but the horn ring does not share that paint scheme. Could be a replacement horn ring. I'm guessing either blackout at the dealership or years later during restoration. Hood ornament appears to be chrome too. Interesting to compare the similarities to the blackout convertible interior photo.