K8096

It's from the mid 20's - early 30's. Could have either hung on the side of a building, or set on the sidewalk with a metal frame to hold it up. A friend of mine has one of these with the brackets. If you want to sell, send me a PM.

Show him e bay listings of all the street rodded coupes of that era and how the owners have way more money in them than what they bid up to. The argument regarding the wood framed body is a very good one as well. Educate him on the HPOF class in AACA too.

I'm jealous.

I bought a tube from a major tire supplier last fall and had it installed by a truck tire shop that knows what they're doing. The finished wheel/tire where mounted on a car that does not run & just sits in my garage and does not move. This spring I noticed the car tilting to one side & found the tube was slowly loosing air. I took it back to the tire shop & upon breakdown we found the tube had a one inch split along one of the seams. This was not an installation error but rather a tube defect. The tube was made in China. The company sent me a new tube for free. The new tube was made in Korea.

In the third dash above (the close up), what the round thing to the right of the brake adjuster and above the the steering column support screws? It looks like a gauge. Or is an optical allusion/reflection of something? I agree with you on the tach located on the far left. LL Corum has his own wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lora_L._Corum He was 31 the year of the 1930 race. Per the link, he hadn't raced at Indy since 1926, so maybe he was chomping at the bit & would drive anything to get in again. The Jones Special's 10th place finish was 52 minutes behind the winner. Out of the 38 cars to start the 1930 Indy 500 only 10 finished the 500 miles (the Jones Special being the last) and 4 cars were still running when the race was called. So 24 out of the 38 entrants had mechanical failures or crashed. Corum died at age 50 in 1949. Corum isn't that common of a name. Maybe we could find a relative in Indiana who has some old photos never seen before?

It looks like a die to stamp 1930/31 Stutz hubcaps. Where are you located? The cars were made in Indianapolis.

I just figured out something else new today. In the photos, your car has two extra hood side vents for additional airflow through the engine compartment. Vertical ones, on either side of the normal horizontal louvers for a model M Stutz. Does your car still have these? One has to wonder if this was something added just for the race, or if it were planned for all the supercharged cars. Of the two original supercharged cars that do exist (Lancefield coupe and Derham conv.) - I don't believe either of them have these extra vents. And yes, you can see that extra gauge right above the steering column in the one photo. As you know, stock model M Stutz cars did not have a tach. The drive would have been off the camshaft and come out the back of the cam cover. Does your cam cover have a hole that was patched in the back of it? You know, if you look at the gauge in the picture, it kind of looks like a standard drum type speedometer with the drum at the top, the total miles accumulated in the middle, and the trip mileage at the bottom.

You know, there's another photo of your car at the track with the number 27 obviously penciled in by the photographer after the photo was taken. I assume they didn't actually paint the number on the car until it qualified, and that the photo was from qualifying day. Am I correct in my thinking?

Wow, I've never seen that footage before. That's great! Those Millers must have run circles around the "junk" formula cars that day. They're so much lower to the ground and must have handled much better. How old was Corum in 1930? One would think he would have preferred to drive a Miller race car rather than one of the junk formula cars. He had to know the Millers had a distinct advantage. He's really hugging the inside of the track in the film. Did they have any type of seat belt to keep them in the car?

Went to a friends house today and we looked at my photo of your car under a powerful magnifying glass. The rear license plate is definitely 1937. But, that doesn't rule out your Spring of 1938 time setting theory. Back then, Ohio license plates were renewed once a year in the spring, regardless of when your birthday was. Everyone renewed at the same time. I don't think they went to the birthday renewal system until the 1970's. The plate number by the way is C 365 T. It's quite possible Wolf just took a license plate off another car too, as that sort of thing was common before the 1980's and computers. I think the photo might have been taken a little later than March though. I agree it's not June or summer as the trees don't have all their leaves, but around here trees don't usually start getting their leaves until mid April. I just looked at a photo I took on April 8th of this year and there are no leaves at all on any trees. So I'm thinking more like late April on the photo time frame. There is no writing on the back of my picture. One other interesting thing I made out upon magnifying my picture is that the buffalo hubs do not have the small Stutz cloisonne emblems on them, but rather the hex of the buffalo hub casting was painted a light color, probably silver to match the body. The spare tire is a Goodrich brand as it can be seen on the whitewall upon magnification.

What car does this go to? I assume it's from a higher end car from the late 20's or early 30's.

Just want to wish Barry & Glynette a speedy recovery.

Is it the one for sale by a dealer in St Louis?

You should ask them to copy the original production card, both sides. They did for me 15 years ago. It will say things like if it had a monogram originally, the color of the pin stripe, the key numbers, axle ratio, color of the convertible top & leather. I'd give them a call back and get that. You don't want to rely on their interpretation of the data, you want to see it for yourself first hand.

Interesting theory. I've driven by Jones' house in Cleveland Heights. It's a nice average sized 1920's house in a decent middle class to almost upper middle class neighborhood of the time. It had a yard and a 2 car garage in the back. Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights were the two eastern most suburbs of Cleveland at the time. Past them was nothing but fields and farm land (it got built up after the war). It was considered something to live in one of those suburbs at the time, that you had have become somewhat successful. Maybe I'll try to drive by it again sometime & snap a picture for you. I've also tried to find the building of the Prospect Auto Top & Painting Co. a couple years ago, but it's long gone, replaced by a modern bank building. It's very close to the central downtown business district. In the 1920 & 30's, there were dozens of automotive dealers (new and used) and "jobber shops" on both Carnegie & Prospect Ave. Both streets branch right off of the downtown area and parallel each other with one block separating them. The Stutz agency in Cleveland was at 6921 Carnegie I believe. One thing I can do sometime is go to the Cleveland library and look in their historical photo section that's organized by street to see if there's any pictures of the original building there. I agree a guy pounding out dents in fenders for a living wouldn't be able to afford a new Stutz or a nice house in Cleveland Heights at the time. He would have to at the very least been one of the owners of the business. I think we'd need a little more proof though before accepting it as fact that he was a booze runner. It's certainly plausible, but maybe he had a rich uncle who died and that's where he got the money. Or perhaps the wife's family had money and bankrolled the car and bought them the house. You never know. One other thing we can do it look through the Cleveland business directories year by year to see when the Prospect Auto Top & Painting Co ceased to be listed. If it were 1933 when prohibition ended, or shortly there after, that would support your theory, but then again, 1933/34 was also the trough of the depression and people weren't getting their cars repainted as much either. It wasn't a priority. One thing that did strike me though, was the racing schedule he participated in the article mentioned (if it's true). He wasn't home very much that year as he was on the road a lot for the races. If he were just an employee of the body shop, how could he get all that time off? His age would support your theory. A man in his early 20's when prohibition began, took some risks when younger and they paid off, now in his late 30's when he bought the Stutz, he had made his money and had time to have fun. Perhaps he had worked his way up the organization and didn't do any of the grunt work anymore. It's too bad Jones had such a common last name. If it were a unique name, we could search out others in Northern Ohio with the same name & try to find a relative.

I'm sure you know Jones died in a crash at Indy while practicing in May, 1932. I wonder who had the car from that time until Wolfe got it in 1938? Do we know where in the Cleveland/Akron area Wolfe lived in the late 30's? It's interesting that in my photo the side of the hood is perfectly clean with no oil seeping out the seams. Below is link to a good write up on Milton Jones. I'm sure you've already seen this. http://harrymillerclub.com/storyc69a.html?aid=11

I saw an all original 1937 LeBaron coupe 20 years ago that was painted black with black leather seats and door panels, and then a tan cloth headliner and sun visors, and tan carpet. So it appears that combination was used more than once. That's a lot of black on a car. If you go back to black on the paint, I'd be tempted to go with a red or maroon leather interior. No one would knock you for it. Most of the dash boards on the late 30's K Lincolns were painted body color, but I have seen a couple where the car was black and the dash was painted a medium grey. One was a conv sedan and the other coupe. Both were original cars.

Oh, you don't have to apologize Greg, since when are auction catalogs correct anyway? I just pulled out my 1967 CCCA directory, and yes Al Rodway of Cleveland is listed with a 1930 Stutz SV 16 boattail speedster. In the same 1967 directory Paul Stern is listed with about 10 cars, but no Stutz. So he must have sold the red car to Rodway prior to 1967. Rodway sold all his cars around 1970/71, so perhaps Gottlieb bought it then from Rodway. That's great you have the photos of the car with the restorer stripping the paint and removing the molding on the cowl. Hopefully you're be able to put it back. I think the Stutz News only printed the 3/4 front view of the car, not the 3/4 rear view, so yes I'd agree it certainly seems to be the same car with the gas tank removed awaiting the larger one to be installed. The hole hasn't been put in the body for the filler yet because the tank wasn't done yet. The car doesn't seem brand new in the photo, as the paint is worn/chipped on the frame & rear axle so it appears to have some miles on it already. Like you said, perhaps a factory test car for the supercharger. That's also great you have a photo of it in street car form after the Indy 500 race and before it was modified. I assume this is the configuration you're going to restore it to. I have a pleasant surprise for you. I was in an antique shop in Akron, OH a couple months ago, and bought this photo of your car. This is obviously your car as it has the gas tank filler neck on the drivers side coming up through the rear deck (you can't see it in the picture I took of the picture, but it's there on the original print). It appears to be the grey color you mentioned before, and now you know what the side curtains are supposed to look like. I can't read the year on the license plate in the original photo, but I've narrowed it down to the following years based on the light background and dark numbers: It could be Ohio 1931 (grey background with black numbers), 1936 (white background with blue numbers), 1937 (white background with red numbers), or 1939 (white background with blue numbers). All the other years of the 1930's through 1941 have dark backgrounds, and 1938 has more writting on the bottom that isn't on this plate, so that rules them out. Enjoy!

Thanks for clarifying that for me. One thing though, you say Paul Sterns owned the red car from 1962 - 75. I'm sure it was owned by Al Rodway of Cleveland for at least a few years in the late 60's. He had a large collection of cars, all restored, that he all bought in the mid to late 60's, and then sold them all by the early 70's as he moved onto other interests. The calendar photo I posted of the red car even says "formerly of the Al Rodway collection" and was copyrighted in 1976. The reason I thought they were the same car was because the Jones Special was in the Cleveland/Akron area in the 1930's, and then Rodway of Cleveland had the red car which is very similar. I understand your hypothesis on the car with the different hood and splash aprons being your car, but perhaps it is a different car. We may never know 100% for sure. So let me ask you, do you have any photos of your car after the race when it was put back into street car form, but before the modifications were made on it with the different grille & headlights? I think you mentioned to me a couple months ago you were going to restore it to street car form so it can be used again. You also mentioned 1938 as a year you know it was painted white. Do you have a photo of it from 1938?

One other comment I'll make is in regards to whether the Jones Special was the first car with the bobtail body or not. This body style is illustrated in the regular 1929 Stutz sales brochure. Assuming these were printed in early 1929, or even late 1928, one would think perhaps at least a couple had been built already. Does your body have the LeBaron body tag on it sill? It would be located somewhere by the passenger side sill by the front floor board. The one on my roadster has 2 sets of numbers on it. No one has really deciphered these yet, but I assume one number is a style number, and the other number is the body number.

OK, here's a photo of what I believe is the same car. This is from a 1976 Automotive Quarterly calendar. Al Rodway of Cleveland owned it in the late 1960's. So I'm assuming it was restored to this configuration sometime in the 1960's. There are some differences though. It got back it's correct radiator shell & headlight that were switched out in the 1947 photo, but the cowl lights are now missing. It also now has 20" 6 lug wheels which were common on 1930 & 31 Stutz cars. Why someone would remove the buffalo wire wheels is beyond me. They had to replace the brake drum hubs as well to make this wheel switch. The windshield here has been changed to a more raked one that does not fold. The Packard front bumper is gone as well and replaced with a more correct looking one. One thing that strikes me though is the molding that goes from one side of the cowl to the other at the top. This is clear in the 1947 photo AJ posted, but it is not there in the original race car photos, or the 1976 photo. I wonder if it was just a stripe painted on and not an actual molding. One easy way to always tell if a photo is of the Jones Special is if it has the gas filler on the drivers side coming up through the body between the rear fender & the bobtail. This was done when they installed a custom larger gas tank. All the production Stutz cars had the gas filler on the passenger side coming up between two of the frame cross members. Unfortunately we can't see it in the side profile picture I posted. If the 1976 photo is indeed the Jones Special (which I think it is ), then when it was restored yet again in the 1990's to race car configuration, the correct buffalo wire wheels were reinstalled at that time.

In that photo it still has the correct windshield. It was replaced with a higher one piece non folding windshield in the 50's or 60's. The photo above was taken outside the Akron Rubber Bowl football stadium in 1947. I'll post a photo of it with the different windshield tonight.

I'm curious, which windshield do you have for the car now? The fold down type the car came with originally, or that one piece non folding one that was installed when the car was 1st restored in the 1960's and painted red with silver bolt on wheels.

1926 through 30 should be 5 digits. 1931 & up should be 4 digits with the 4 digit number matching the car number on the firewall tag. 1930 was the last year for the FEDCO system.

I believe the gentleman posting has the Jones Special.