juddman

Me - 36 Wife's Subaru - 5 Audi Coupe GT (my daily commuter) - 17 Fiat X1/9 - 22 BMW 327 Cabriolet - 65

Interesting! I work about 5 miles from Port Jefferson, live about 25 miles from there, and am quite familiar with the area. I don't see why I can't drop by the PJ library one night after work and do some digging. Do you have any pix you can email? They might be helpful as I'm not anything like an expert on brass era cars. Drop me an email at juddman@optonline.net if you like. Chris

OK, I'm sure to take some flak for this, but am prepared to make my case. My fave is the 1972 Fiat X1/9. The reason: It was advanced for it's time without being gimmicky, and in my opinion was a masterful exhibition of excellent chassis dynamics wrapped in a beautiful body with good ergonomics and it was safe in a crash, too. On modern rubber, the X1/9's handling dynamics rivals those of many current sportscars - without a punishing ride. They were run by a transverse SOHC 1290 cc engine with a rubber toothed t-belt - the same configuration of MANY cars a generation later. It was suspended at all 4 corners by MacPherson struts. No big deal now, but a harbinger of things to come. It was built to withstand a 50 mph frontal impact and an 80 mph rollover - no exaggeration. The US gov't was considering instituting really stiff safety standards in the early 70's and Fiat didn't want to lose the US market, so it built this car to meet those standards. The standards were never put into effect, but the car was built like a tiny tank. For a car only weighing about a ton, a little over 12 ft long and under 4 ft high, it's a safe little beast. As long as it hasn't rusted away. The car had fiber optics lighting the faces on the switches. With two trunks, it could carry two people and all their gear for a weekend in comfort. All of this while making liberal use of the 128's parts bin to make a relatively affordable sportster. Too bad for the crappy russian steel...otherwise, they are really good cars. I've had several and have found them to be robust once sorted. Most folks thought they were crap because they actually had to change the timing belt and if they didn't, valves and pistons would collide in short order. Your average t-belt cost $15 and takes about an hour to change, btw. Flame suit on...

I have no problem with modifying an otherwise hopeless car - I know a guy that got a pre-WW2 BMW, restored the body and put modern BMW mechanicals into it because the original drivetrain was non existent and I have no problem with that. With my own 38 BMW, I plan on doing a number of mostly invisible mods to aid in reliability and drivability. I'll run modern insulation on my wiring, bump the CR, convert to shell type bearings, put slightly larger valves in (with hardened seats), and run later type downdraft carbs. I may even put an alternator in instead of a generator, as I do plan on driving the car and don't care about showing it. I won't do a 12V conversion though, and the body and interior will look completely stock.

All I can tell you is that the body on my pre-WW2 BMW doesn't un-bolt either, tho' it's clearly welded on. Methinks the Germans were fooling with the idea of unitized body construction for a while before your car was built. Carleton, being that you're local and seem to me to be a repository for lots of info, I would eventually like to pick your brain in person and get a gander at your collection, as I'm a mere "babe in the woods" when it comes to the ancient car thing. I'm learning slowly, tho'... Good luck! Chrris

Andy - A very good friend of mine is an expert in wicker repair. She usually does furniture and re-canes seats and such, but if it's wicker and it can be fixed, she can do it. She's a retired chemist who really knows her stuff. She usually has a waiting list and doesn't rush things, but she's conscientious and a fantastic lady in general. Contact me offline at juddman@optonline.net and let me know if you're interested. She (and I) are located on Long Island, NY. Also, I would expect that clear digital photos from several angles would be helpful for her to evaluate your project. Chris

This was definitely not a fiberfab kit type car - the body was aluminum and appeared to have been quite well done. I think it's Italian - possibly a Stanguellini or an even more obscure Fiat based one-off, tho' too small to be an Alfa. Thanks for the thoughts.

Hi Folks - I saw this at the Carlisle import show last weekend - any clue? It's got an aluminum body, maybe Italian? British? Thanks!

OK, I'm prepared to take some ribbing on this one, but my vote goes to the brake and clutch master cylinders under the dashboard of a Fiat X1/9. What a purple beast. Otherwise, they're really not so tough to work on (I swear), and they can be reasonably reliable from a mechanical standpoint - the engines are quite good, actually. The bodies, lovely as they look, are biodegradeable however. It's too bad these cars got a bad rap. The dealers were awful indeed, but the cars themselves weren't too bad - and there's not alot out there still that handles much better.

Cool thread! Some cool stuff from Italy: I have a large blueprint dated 1974 for a Lancia Stratos and sales literature for the Lamborghini Miura, Maserati Ghibli, and Fiat 131 Abarth Homologated rally car. BMW's historic archive also gave me a photocopy of an original owner's manual for my 327 Cabriolet, which I thought was very nice. I've been looking for an original (I actually saw one on Ebay in Germany, but I couldn't convince the guy to ship it) - ah well! Chris

Just one more data point... I don't think it matters so much where a car resides in relation to where it was made. I think that it is more important to sell to someone that appreciates the vehicle and will care for it and use it properly, regardless of where they may be. I have no problem with muscle cars in Japan as long as they're being taken care of, seen, driven, and loved. My dad brought the BMW I'm working on back from his military service in Germany 40 years ago. It may be argued that my car is rare and of histoical value and belongs back in Germany. It's also been part of the history of my own family. It will remain here in the US to be passed to my children and it will wear the US military plates it wore when my dad drove it in the 60's along with the oval USA ID sticker on the back. There may be a German BMW enthusiast out there that disagrees with that, but so what? Do what your gut tells you is the right thing and don't worry too much about public opinion. It's your car.

Wow - it's great to hear that someone appreciates such cars for more than their aesthetic value. I'm amazed that the PO would have a car that's restored to such a high standard visually, yet apparently pay so little attention to the mechanicals. It seems almost paradoxical that such a well engineered machine would be reduced to the status of a bauble to be displayed but not used. My primary goal with Dad's old BMW is to make it a handsome driver, which has been met with some derisive comments among some of my friends who would make it a trailer queen if they owned it. Once restored, the old beast will make it to whatever events it attends under its own steam or it won't go. Your attitude with your cars helps confirm my own inclinations - Thanks! Best, Chris

Ummm....Errr...Excuse my momentary lack of composure. That it just too cool! How's the Dusenberg?

My dad bought the '38 BMW currently residing in my garage in Treysa, Germany in about 1963 while serving in the US Army Signal Corps. He bought it from the town garbage man who spoke perfect, unaccented English and apparently had some sophisticated communications equipment in the basement. Dad is an engineer and worked on radar sets and missile guidance systems prior to being drafted, so I would suspect that he knew pretty well what he was looking at. Needless to say, dad believed the guy was a spy of some sort for the Soviets. In any case, the story the alleged spy gave was that the car had been owned by a French officer at some point during WW2, during which it was wrecked (it still bears evidence of that), and it was repaired after the war. Dad liked the car, shipped it home in '65 and drove it until about 1970 when he took it apart with good intentions. He had 4 kids and never got the time. Because I was the kid that bugged him the most about the car, he gave it to me about a year ago and I've been researching it, have taken a course in basic autobody work, and have begun with some very basic refurbishing (derusting and repainting bracketry and other things that don't cost hugely). I have recently been given some patterns for some structural wood and am HUGELY thankful for them. Anyone who wants to see some pix, then and now, is welcome to take a look at my little website at www.bmw327.com. Chris

Hi Folks - I'm just wondering where you guys get sheetmetal for making patch panels. I'm looking for some 19 gauge (1mm or 0.040in) 1018 sheet steel to fix some rust on my ancient BMW. I don't need any huge quantity - one or two 2x3 ft sheets would be far more than enough and all of the metal suppliers near me seem to require large purchases. I've found a few places on the net that will sell small quantities of either 18 or 20 gauge, but I'd like to match the thickness of what's on the car if possible. Eastwood also sells small quantities of either 18 or 20, but it's galvanized and I'd rather stay away from welding that. I'm located on eastern Long Island. If anyone has any good sources in the northeast, please let me know. I'm willing to drive and I have a gearhead buddy who commutes between LI and Philly on a weekly basis who might be talked into grabbing something on his way, too. Thanks to all!

I'm something of a novice, but I've read a few books and have taken an excellent autobody class in which I spent a good amount of time familiarizing myself with both MIG and Oxy-Acetylene. I like both, frankly. MIG is great for sheet metal, but oxy is more flexible - you can cut, heat (GREAT for looseneing rusted nuts and bolts!), braze, and weld with oxy. As long as you follow safety instructions in any good welding book, you won't hurt yourself. Use a light touch and it's pretty forgiving, too. Buy a good 110V MIG setup - (I have a Hobart) then save your pennies for oxy-acetylene. Once I figured out how to light the torch and get a neutral flame, I found oxy to be really fun. Also, if you get a MIG, spring for an electric auto darkening helmet. It's a little money, but worth it for a novice safety wise. Regular MIG lenses are REALLY dark and I was afraid of welding my thumb!

Andreas, Do you want new or used? They'll be much cheaper and more easily found used, I'm sure. I'll do some looking and see what I can come up with for you. Chris

For a Comrade! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1876486864

The level of "improvisation" evident on my car is significant and apparently not terribly unusual, apparently due to the terrible economic conditions in Europe after WW2. The car wears an Opel radiator, VW headlights, and a rear bumper from an early 50's Mercedes. Interestingly, a friend of mine in Canada is restoring another example and his also wears a similar rear bumper. When we compare notes, we wonder sometimes if we're working on the same car. Of course in the 50's and 60's it was just another cheap, old car. Dad bought it for the equivalent of $250 and when he brought it home to the states, his neighbors asked him to park it in the garage because it was OLD! Now, my neighbors wonder what the ancient car in the garage is and when it'll be done. How times change. Anyway, if anyone wants to go to my little website to see more, it's at www.BMW327.com. It's nothing amazing, but there will be more to come. That, and I think the url is pretty cool.

An interesting thread! Here's a data point for you. There were approximately 1400 BMW 327 and 327/8 cabriolets and coupes made between 1937-41. Most were cabrios, coupes were quite rare - maybe 15% of total production. My cabriolet is # 273, made in 1938, and there are apparently almost 300 that are known currently, with about 75 or so being in the US. I think the high survival rate is due to the fact that the cars were held in high esteem when new and were pretty well made. Mine was in daily use until the late 1960's.

I got a set of 3 very nice old Craftsman body dollys (from the 50's?) - a heel dolly, a small comma dolly, and a universal dolly. Perfect for me to work on removing dents and smoothing out the metal on the old Bimmer! I just finished my adult-ed autobody course a little bit ago and have been itching to continue learning on my own, but I need TOOLS! I still need a slapping file, a vixen file, a few sanding boards and have been trolling Ebay for old Fairmount hammers in good shape...

A bit more than a year ago, my dad shipped his '38 bmw 327 (project) to me from LA to NY and I believe he paid about $1800 via Horseless Carriage. They were 110% prompt, careful, professional, and pleasant. I'd deal with them again in a heartbeat.

To LI Stellite: The gold Facel I saw (maybe 3 years ago?) was parked at a Citgo gas station on the north side Route 25 in Mattituck, just east of the movie theater and what used to be a Dairy Queen. It was gold as I said with a cream or white leather interior, which was in sorry shape but all there. I think the dash and gauges were ok and that it might have had a pushbutton tranny. It wore current NY registration and inspection stickers, so I figure it must not be far from some sort of running condition. I recall old license plates on the car - the old yellow and black ones maybe? It appeared straight with all trim present, but rusty. I thought it an ambitious project or an excellent parts car at the time. The car exuded a faded opulence that made me sad for it as few other derelicts I've seen have. I've not seen the car again and I can only hope someone saved it. One does see some interesting cars out here...last year I came upon a Daf Dandelion that was rusted to Hell and just this weekend I saw a nice Fiat Bianchina for sale in Riverhead...

Ahh...the 327. It's been embarassingly slow, actually. I've done a fair bit of research on it though - In the year I've had it, I've found 2 parts sources, a translated copy of the factory shop manual, a copy of the owner's manual (a freebie from BMW actually), and some parts inerchange info. I'm working on making my garage a suitable workshop, and beginning on the 23rd of this month, I'll be taking a vocational couse in autobody work. The reason things haven't gone more quickly is primarily financial - we redid the kitchen, added a bath, and we're (hopefully) adopting a child, all of which ain't cheap, but they're important IMHO. Thankfully the bride is tolerant of my intentions with the car, though. It's been my dream since I was five to see this very car run and I will be patient, but I'll not be denied. Mebbe I should have started a new thread...

I've only ever seen one of those - a gold one looking rather forlorn but with a current registration out on the north fork of LI. Possibly the same one LI Stellite mentions? What struck me was a small placard on the dash that read to the effect that the windows should be fully raised at speeds in excess of 120 MPH. Put together properly, that car would be a real peach!