NTX5467

In the early '70s, Chevrolet was trying for more of a "Cadillac look" than in prior years with the Caprice. According to John DeLorean's book, Cadillac didn't like that at all back then and claimed it hurt their sales, yet the working man who could only afford a Chevy liked them a lot and Caprice sales soared during those years. When the Caprice came out in mid-year '65, they also added automatic climate control that had not been in Chevies up until that point as well as the new 396 V-8 and TurboHydramatic 400 transmission. Even "Motor Trend" proclaimed it trimed as nicely as a Cadillac in their road test in '65, but considering the differences in weight and wheelbase and length, the Cadillac would be the nicer car to travel in--even though both were good. In those earlier times, options usually were not tied to an option package or specific model as they have been in more current times. Manual transmissions were typically standard, except few people ordered them over the more upscale automatics. If it was "in the book" and didn't affect emisssions certifications, you could probably get it ordered like you wanted (even if the factory rep had to approve it). Similar with exterior color/interior trim combinations. While there were many "accepted" exterior/interior color combinations, there were some listed as "not recommended" but you could get one of those too if you the factory rep knew the customer wanted it that way and was a valid sold order deal. My aunt worked for a CPA in deepest West Texas. They had a customer that got a new Olds every few years and special ordered it with a rubber floor mat instead of the standard (for that model) carpet. He maintained it was easier to keep the sand out of the floor that way. I don't know if the dealer made the swap when they received the car or if they got the factory people to substitute the rubber mat from a cheaper car on the assembly line as some sort of fleet option, but I remember her talking about that "special order" deal. From a more practical and saleable standpoint, if a dealer ordered a car for stock and ordered only a power seat without the complimentary power windows and/or power door locks, he had better know his clientel would like it that way as few other dealers might consider dealer trading for it if they had a vehicle he might sell to one of his customers. Same with tilt wheel and cruise control or power steering/power brakes/air conditioning. If the factory marketing people were trying to build sales interest, they could well make 3-speed manual transmissions standard on everything so they could have a lower "standard equipment vehicle" price point. Even the Chevy Corvette was not immune to that situation. In those days, the gear ratio spreads were similar between the 3-speed automatics and the similar manual transmissions while the manuals would have a mpg or two advantage. Still, when people saw that car it was still a big Buick and that's all that really mattered to them. Everyone these days talks about how "bad" it is to have overlapping product lines. Naturally, they're looking at duplicated effort between the sales divisions and how it affects their operating overhead, but when each of the divisions was their own operating unit they had the flexibility to exploit their "line item option" approach to the fullest and offer the widest variety of total build combinations in the world (instead of the more "cut and dried" import approach). That was one thing that made the cars from the '50s-middle '70s so interesting. The Cadillac Calais was a more "entry price level" Cadillac from the middle '60s. Not only a way to get "step up" customers from Olds and Buick, but also to put more sales on the book against Lincoln as Cadillac ruled that market back then. It may have had "less opulent" appointements than the DeVilles, but it was still a Cadillac that was more affordable than the traditional DeVilles too. Kind of like Cadillac playing the same game as the lower level divisions were, except in reverse. Enjoy! NTX5467

I will agree that there are many interesting vehicles out there--still. Sometimes, it takes "radar" to find them, but that's half of the fun in finding them. Sometimes they are in garages of their original owners, other times in a barn, and other times on out of the way used car lots (these vehicles are "dead iron" on a later model used car lot or vastly over priced on those lots) or filling stations aprons. Sometimes, they also turn up in the "bargain ads"-type newspapers. Many will dismiss them as a "nice old car" as others with our orientation will calmly try to make a deal for this "nice old car" that trips our triggers. Several years ago, one of our members was in GA visiting his father. He picked up the local paper and looked at the car ads. In there was a '71 Buick sedan, listed as a model that didn't exist in that model year, yet he called to inquire. He even went over to see the widowed female owner, but didn't really get interested in it until he got back home. He then flew back down there and bought the car. It was a 30,000 mile original (full size 4-door hardtop) car--right down to the hose clamps--and had only had a water pump put on under warranty. A slick polish and detail, new tires, and a few other similar items and it was a "new" car again. Even the soft trim that usually was deteriorated was still pristine as it had spent it's non-driving life in the garage. It had seen weekly use to go to the grocery store (driven by the house keeper with the owner riding along) so it was still fully operational. Another member purchased a really nice '70 Skylark Custom 2-dr hardtop. Unusual in the aspect that it had a "350-2" air cleaner top when it had a "350-4" carburetor under it. Perhaps the original owner didn't want that "hot rod" motor so the sales person obliged by swapping the air cleaner lids? Seems like it was spec'd out with bucket seats too--a really nice car with "normal" options. Many times, these things turn up when you least espect them, so always keep some money back and a hole in the garage for something of that nature when they make an unplanned appearance. Enjoy! NTX5467

Thanks for that additional information. Remember that it's VERY EASY to over-carb a small motor. I suspect that with a stock cam with a stock intake manifold (or even an aftermarket aluminum dual plane), stock exhaust manifolds, and stock exhaust, something in the range of 550 cfm would be about right. Even then, if the secondaries are controlled by air flow, they might not open all of the way at WOT (or until about 5000rpm). The earlier Carter AFBs that GM used had manual secondaries but also had counterweighted "air valves" just above the secondary throttle plates to keep too much air from getting inside too quickly (and lowering power output) and bogging the motor. Chrysler used some in the middle '60s that were full manual secondaries and even at about 525cfm, they were on the verge of bogging a stock 383cid 325 horsepower V-8 from a dead stop. The cam duration deal is an indication of just how "hot" the motor is and what its intended use might be. In order to make a 210 degree at .050 aftermarket cam work in my '77 Chevy 305 with 2.56 gears, I had to recurve the distributor from stock and also had to seriously play with the idle mixture to get it right. I initially used an emission spec Holley 4160 for a '76 350 V-8 on a Holley Z-Line intake. The whole package, being more conservative as it was, got me more power with no loss in fuel economy. When I finally put a 650 cfm 4175 spread bore Holley on it (emission spec for a '79 L-82 Corvette), the mileage went up 2 mpg and felt like another 20 lbs/ft or torque suddenly appeared. That made every day mileage average right at 20mpg in mixed driving. That extra air flow might have come in handy when I totally peeved-off a new '87 Mustang on the Interstate one day (with no traffic in front of us). I know his car was stock as it still had the paper tag in the rear window, hehe. Email me if you have any other concerns on your proposed combination. NTX5467

There are some other considerations related to customer demographics and such. In the middle '60s, the more affluent society was poised to move from mundane Fords, Chevrolets, Plymouths, and other lower market level cars into the middle line luxury Mercurys, Pontiacs, Buicks, Oldsmobiles, Dodges, and Chryslers. A loaded Caprice was in the same price territory as the LeSabre, Delta88, and Bonneville just as the Plymouth VIP and Dodge Monaco was in Chrysler Newport territory. Similar with the LeSabre and Wildcat also. So, basically the same money would buy a basic Wildcat or a more loaded LeSabre. I suspect that people in love with the swoopier version of Buick's swoopy lines in the middle '60s would rather opt for a less optioned Wildcat than an everyday LeSabre (like most other people had), especially if they liked hardtops. Similarly, I suspect a loaded Wildcat would be close to Electra territory so that whole orientation started over again. As I recall back then, it was more important to drive the nicer Buicks, Chryslers, and Mercuries (regardless of option level, especially if they had automatic transmissions, A/C, and such) than worry about whether or not it "had every option in the book". As was stated, the extra stuff was suspected of causing trouble and did not affect the basic usefullness of the vehicle. If, for example, you needed power seats, you could get that separate and tilt/telescope steering wheels were complimentary options when available. As the bulk of these cars (especially away from the north) were air conditioned, power windows really were not needed. FM radios were only useful near a metro area too. And then there were the dealers who would advertise a stipper vehicle price in the paper or on television (and had to have product to support those ads) so that could be another orientation for "low content" vehicles. Then too, some of the older buyers just didn't want all of that "stuff" on their car as they didn't use it anyway--right down to the radio. Then, at model year's end, the low optioned cars had to be sold so they were sold to people who "got a real deal" on that Buick with a manual transmission (not a 4-speed). Lots of variables involved. Some due to financial demographics of the areas, some due to dealer marketing concerns, and some due to what the factory was trying to promote. If Buick, for example, was close to getting a sales edge on a competitor, they might urge the dealers to order more lower option cars they could sell less expensively and the factory advertising would then support the "few dollars a month more . . ." orientation in their national/regional advertising. Still nice cars by any measure, just not "gut loaded" and much pricier as a result. Being that many "more senior" people were loyal Buick buyers and had the house with a garage to keep their cars in, these more value conscious people probably didn't trade as often but still kept their cars nice and kept them serviced. Whereas, I suspect the more highly optioned vehicles were much more prone to be bought, traded-in, "used", trashed, salvaged, etc. much earlier in their lives. I know things didn't happen that way in all instances, but I suspect that might have been a more common trend. Enjoy! NTX5467

What needs to be considered is that the bolt is designed to break before it would hurt the threads into which it is screwed. That tends to dictate a somewhat soft material that will also rust easier than a harder bolt would. Yet, when it rusts it should also have enough porosity that a really good penetrant would work. I concur that a harder Grade 8 bolt or stainless fasteners would tend to lessen the problem, as would anti-seize compound. Only thing is to check to see if the specified bolt/nut torque is rated for lubricated fasteners or for dry threads. The anti-seize compound could provide enough more effective lubrication to make 35 "pounds" of torque equalte to 50 "pounds" with dry threads, for example. Hence, be careful so you don't pull the threads out when you tighten things down. Typically, a stud is a better fastener than a bolt as the stud will provide a more stable mount and could save the threads as it will stay put as the items attached to it are removed and reinstalled frequently. Plus, a stud can bottom out in the hole whereas a bolt never should bottom out in the hole. There are reasons that studs are used in some places and bolts in others, other than just ease of assembly or item cost. Just some thoughts . . . NTX5467

You will need that appraisal in case of loss--even with a stated value policy. All a stated/agreed value policy does is set a maximum limit on the insurance company's liability in the case of a loss AND set the rates you pay. Other than that, it's just like a regular policy and in the case of a loss, you'll still have to deal with an adjuster as they will still pay just as they did before--meaning you'll still have to prove the value of the vehicle at the time of the loss. They'll still want to deduct salvage value and such as part of the settlement too. Pretty much all classic/antique "limited use policies" do NOT allow for daily use and cap the mileage in the 2000-3000mile/year range. Just because you have a restored vehicle that is used for daily transportation doesn't mean you can get classic/antique insurance for it or probably run antique license plates on it either (with some exceptions). Therefore, you probably would be better of with a regular automotive policy and put the appraisal on file in your safe deposit box and a copy with your insurance agent. The rates probably would be cheaper and you'd still have the same coverages as you desire with the antique vehicle insurance policy. My personal and professional orientation is that any vintage vehicle which you can't readily buy NOS, used, or reproduction parts for (particular with respect to "crash parts"!) should NOT be used for regular, daily transportation. Basically, let the collector vehicle stay in the garage except for special situations or "maintenance runs" and use an "expendable" vehicle for the regular day to day running around that is done plus to and from work. That way, you'll be spared the grief of chasing parts to rebuild it after some thoughtless "person" in an "appliance vehicle" does something stupid, not to mention haggling with the insurance over a settlement/repair situation. It might be really neat to drive a vintage vehicle every day, but after the sudden hail storm that rolled through the DFW area several years ago, when a beautiful day turned really nasty later in the afternoon (vehicles looked like the outer surface of golf balls and convertible tops were shredded! from the large and heavy hail storm, not to mention the holes in the windshields and such!), that was probably the best argument for NOT using collector vehicles for daily transportation. What you do with your vehicle is your determination, but doing some advance damage control to prevent possible future grief might be taken into consideration also. Just some thoughts . . . NTX5467

Supercharager Oil is available from GM Parts. It's a small bottle like the PosiTraction additive comes in. The provisions for changing it should be in the owner's manual and certainly in the GM Service Manual. I believe it's a synthetic type of oil and the change/service interval might be 50,000 miles. Check your owner's manual. I understand that the oil can have a strong smell when it hasn't been changed often enough. I would suspect that if the noise was indeed from the supercharger, it should not be affected by whether the car is in gear or not. I would espect it to be constant and louder at higher rpms (and under boost conditions). Otherwise, check the spring loaded belt tensioners as they can sometimes rattle when they are getting ready to "have a problem". Also check the lower crank pulley/damper as they have been known to have some age related problems too. When the load on the engine is changed (i.e., as when going from Park/Neutral into a "Drive" position), the crankshaft will move slightly plus change the harmonics of the belt as it does. If the noise is louder in gear, does it go away or change when you load the engine against the foot brake to the equivalent rpm it would be in Park/Neutral? Considering there are probably more GTP Grand Prixs and SSEi Bonnevilles running around than supercharged Buicks, you might seek a Pontiac dealer's service people for a second opinion. Considering that in the long while we had Buicks at the dealership I work at, that I had no inquiries from customers on the cost to replace a supercharger, I got the impression that they are pretty trouble free and we didn't have enough calls for the Supercharger Oil to keep it in stock. All of that considered, I really suspect the trouble is probably not in the supercharger. What about the other belt driven accessories? A/C compressor? Etc.? Just some thoughts . . . NTX5467

You're welcome. NTX5467

Sounds like a valve body issue, as you mentioned engine rpm (which would influence line pressures and such in the transmission itself). Could be a leaking gasket/seal issue that would be fixed with new seal items or be a warped valve body that needs replacing. Could also be the shift valves and their related springs that calibrate when things happen. I suspect it will not be a manual shift linkage issue if you see no movement on the shift lever, unless there's something loose internally in that respect. There could be something that's more specific to the particular transmission in that vehicle, so I'm speaking in generalities that could affect most any automatic transmission. I recommend you get that car to a reputable trans shop or the dealer and get it fixed before it causes more problems or property damage. Might plan on a full overhaul while you're at it too. NTX5467

Motor Trend magazine did a combination road test article on both a Wildcat 2x4bbl convertible and a 1x4bbl hardtop in 1964. I suspect you can get some good pics of the exhaust exit locations and such from that article. Seems like it was in about March or April of '64. Also some good engine shots too. Enjoy! NTX5467

Starting in '65, Peterson Publishing Company put out an annual "Complete Book of Engines" that covered all of the production engines for North American built cars. It also included ALL of the SAE specs for the engines plus had a write up on each engine family. In the back were some articles on modifications, historical information, and such. Quite nice items to have! They continued doing one each year up until about '75. The "advertised" cam specs are or should be to the SAE procedures, which should be (if I remember correctly) at .006" lobe lift on intake and .008" lobe lift on the exhaust. Going by the specs of some repro cam manufacturers that offer "equivalent" cams will not yield the EXACT same specs as the factory cams as to do so without a license would be copyright infringement--therefore, all of the "equivalent" cams will have a little more duration and/or lift and/or lobe centerline changes. That's why a Melling 350/350 cam for a Chevy small block sounds so much wilder than the stock GM 350/350 cam does in the same motor. As for the .050" duration numbers, the Chrysler guys claim that you can generally take the factory's advertised total duration numbers and multiply them by .80 on normal stock cams and .85 on higher performance cams to approximate the .050" duration numbers. As mentioned, the factory numbers are according to SAE specified procedures. The .050" numbers were developed by the aftermarket cam vendors to standardize how their cams were spec'd out so you'd know what you were getting. The general orientation is that by the time the lifter has moved .050" higher than the base lobe circle of the cam, it's past any clearance or transitionary ramps on the lobe profile and into the "meat" of things. On some Chevrolet cams, they allegedly used to include these ramps in their specs and generate some very large duration numbers for otherwise mild cams. The .050" orientation came along in the '70s or thereabouts so the only way to get these numbers for a factory cam would be to find one and degree it to determine the lift and timing event numbers. I happen to have the '69 edition (#5) close by and here are the numbers on the '69 Buick 350 2bbl & 4bbl V-8. The numbers for the 300 might be similar, but until I find the earlier version, you can use these as a general guide. Intake -- Opens BTDC -- 24 Closes ABDC -- 78 Total -- 282 degrees Exhaust - Opens BBDC -- 70 Closes ATDC -- 38 Total -- 288 degrees Overlap -- 62 degrees Lobe Lift -- Intake/Exhaust >> .243"/.247" Rocker Ratio -- 1.55 Valve Lift = Lobe Lift x Rocker Ratio Hope this might help you in your search, NTX5467

Just by chance, have you had the transmission fluid and filter changed lately? If not, it might be advisable as that whine could be a pump wanting more fluid flow. The Buick V-6 is very torquey at lower rpm levels, but there's not enough there to lug that car with several people up a hill at 40mph in OD and it not first unlock the lock-up torque converter and then grab a downshift to the next lower gear. If you try to run that route with the cruise control on, it'll really be doing that stuff. The current LeSabres, in OD, for example, take 80mph to get to 2000rpm on the tach on the level roads. You might also check with the dealer to see if there are some updates they can "flash" into the computer to possibly help what's going on, but the best advice would be (as stated) to just put it in "D" and not "OD" when you are in the hills. An engine that runs at a little higher rpms (and stays up on the torque curve in so doing) under less load will probably get better mpg than one that's lugging around under higher load at lower speeds. It will take less throttle to let the engine run in "D" and therefore keep the computer from putting more fuel into the engine also. Everything will be much happier that way and the transmission will see less wear and tear also. Same with non-fuel injected and non-computered cars with OD transmissions too. Just some additional thoughts, NTX5467

Seems this situation (door and ign keys being the same) exists prior to about the '74 model year in Buicks, after further research. Enjoy! NTX5467

I don't know if this is really a wear issue, but most of the later superchargers were built so you could change the oil in them. There is a particular GM part number on that special lube as the supercharger has its own oil supply/reservoir. Seems like the first year supercharged 3800 did not have that provision, but the later ones did. In any event, check the owners manual on that issue. In general, they are good cars with strong body construction (as mentioned). Emjoy! NTX5467

If they aren't damaged, but just need rekeying, a reputable locksmith can do that. From what I've seen of the aftermarket lock sets, they usually have the door cylinders as one set (not including the deck lid or glove box) and then an ignition cylinder. In other words, just partial sets. GM only serviced them as bare cylinders with only the ignition cylinder coming with keys in it. A good locksmith can take your door and deck lid cylinders apart, clean them, replace the tumblers and springs, lube things accordingly, and be good a new. More expensive than buying the ready made sets, but then you can use your existing door key, plus the ready made sets typically don't include the deck lid cylinder in them. The ignition cylinder (steering column) is best replaced with a new one (as that's the only one that key fits anyway). Hope this helps . . . NTX5467

Without replacing them, protecting them would be the next best option. There are some vinyl mending/repairing kits or similar that some of the auto supply people might have and might also be at some of the full line drug store chain stores. Any existing rips and tears might be temporarily filled in or reinforced with that stuff, but consider it a shorter term fix. Unless you are hooked on the leather, you might find a trim shop that can insert the affected panels with a similar grain/color vinyl instead of the more expensive leather. This would probably be the best long term fix, but you also might need to do the entire interior so things will once again match. Or you could buck up and get new leather installed in the wear/aged areas as that's typically the only way the ultimate value of the car will be all it can be. Just some thoughts . . . NTX5467

Slick50 or any of the other similar additives will typically have no benefits worthy of their extra time and expense to use. Initially, Teflon in motor oil additives was not approved by DuPont and those additives were taken off of the market to return about 10 years later. I put it in one higher mileage car with no extra fuel savings at all. It did seem like it ran a little smoother, but then using some synthetic blend oil will probably do the same thing. In other words, my experiment didn't really hurt anything other than my finances. There are also some test results floating around that it actually accelerates wear and puts more metal into the motor oil, but that sounds a little far fetched--all things considered. Some additives talk about most of the engine's wear taking place during the fist few minutes of use, after sitting overnight or longer. This is accurate, but using a 5W-30 motor oil will help get the oil into the motor faster in those situations anyway. The only real friction reducing additive that has any real chance of working is "moly" (molybdenum?) as it reduces friction AND embeds itself into the metal friction surfaces where the wear will take place. If it didn't work well, Ford would not spec its wheel bearing grease with it and it was the basis of the longer chassis lube intervals which Ford pioneered in the early '60s. Finding a moly-fortified motor oil is dang near impossible as is finding a moly additive that will not be filtered out by the oil filter. In theory, as it embeds itself in the friction surface and is not a topical coating (as the Teflon is), it would be prefereable over any Teflon additive. End result is that there is no magic bullet to stop engine wear/decrease friction/significantly increase fuel economy other than regular maintenance and using a top quality motor oil (multi-viscosity, i.e., 5W-30 or 10W-30) with high quality (at least OEM quality level) air and oil filters. Just some observations . . . NTX5467

Thanks for the information. I can't really see anyone going to the trouble to try to clone one of these vehicles. I can see someone buying some emblems, though, for a display case box or similar--maybe even doing a deal of the various Olds emblems over the past 100 years as is currently availble for Cadillac. I can also see someone's car getting damaged in a collision and desiring to replace the emblems also. That is where the GM database might come in handy. For example, on the Reatta convertibles, to get parts specific to the convertible top and related items, you had to call a number in GM Tech Assistance to manually order those things instead of the regular order on RAPID. Perhaps the "Final 500" specific parts could be set up similarly? The "Anonymous" bug has struck the BCA forum too, for some reason. It would pickup my identity when I clicked into the forum without having to login, but that seems to come and go lately. Yet, when I loged in today, it recognized me, but I still had to manually login. Thanks, NTX5467

Howdy, Jim -- The underhood items on the C-body factory cruises might well be identical, but the way it looks, the instrument panel items will be unique to the individual car lines. Not to mention, cutting some holes in the instrument panel casting. The '68 Chrysler cruises were the modern type that go up into the late '70s, with the control module on the left inner fender skirt and such. The '68 used a particular turn signal lever that was unique to the first year, but it operated the same as the later ones. When the speed limits dropped in the '70s, I was in Lubbock, TX at Texas Tech with our '66 Chrysler Newport 6 Window sedan. I went out to Fenner Tubbs C-P out there and talked to the guy that did their cruise control installations (when that speed limit dropped, doing the Dana/Perfect Circle cruise installations was a gold mine). The guy said that he had done one on a '66 Chrysler and everything from the middle '70s fit perfectly. All it took was to elongate horizontally (toward the front of the car) the square hole where the turn signal lever was. Pretty painless. I then looked a little closer at a new '74 Chrysler at the local dealer and noticed that the relationships between the instrument panel, engine, cruise mount area, etc. were all so close between the '66 C-body and the later ones that it was not funny. Everything would fit with basically no problems--other than the hole on the steering column. You might be wanting to keep everything "factory", but the later system is a much nicer system in my estimation (having memory and accel features) and you can still find everything in the salvage yard too. The earlier systems had two adjustment screws for "cut in" and "engage" whereas the later ones only had the "engage" adjustment. What is really bizarre is that I found a factory accessory cruise kit for a '66 Chevy in a bunch of NOS Chevy parts at a dealership in the '80s. I thought I could adapt it to the Chrysler as they were both similar systems, EXCEPT the Chevy kit mounted the control module up by the radiator and had a long rod going to the carb. I passed on that deal bigtime. Just some thoughts . . . NTX5467

Seems like you ground the extra field terminal to the alternator case -- or tie the two leads together. On the pre-lean burn cars, the extra lead usually went to the electric choke heater or similar. Look in www.allpar.com website for the address to the Chrysler product Usenet newsgroup. There certainly are some people in there that can verify how to make them work. There are some FAQs in that deal that might verify the information you need. Other than the advantage of an alternator with some extra amps and better cooling of the regulator area, they work the same. I understand the orientation of using what you have in stock . . . Seems like it's pretty easy to change brushes and such on the Chrysler alternators so it might be easier in the long run to get your rebuilt at a reputable shop. Enjoy! NTX5467

Those were some very nice cars! However, they just don't have the name recognition of the Chevy Nova of those years. The Buicks were incredibly nice on the inside compared to the other GM rear wheel drive X-body cars too! Plus you got a Buick motor in the mix too, typically. I concur with the suggestion of putting some light oil in the cylinders before you try to restart it. I might also add that the shelf life of modern gasoline has, in your case, long since expired. Therefore, before you even crank the motor with the starter, you will probably need to get the fuel out of the tank and the tank cleaned out and leak checked. If you try to start it with the "dead" gas in it, the varnish and stuff in the old gas will really gum things up! At the present time, you could probalby get away with just an oil change but if you try to use the old gas, you'll probably HAVE to have a carb overhaul/rebuild and other assorted problems fixed. Take a little time now to save time and money later! Also, you might put a floor jack under the rear axle (first to elevate one side only so that lube will flow down the axle tube to the rear wheel bearings on each side, doing one side at a time) and then jacking it up under the center section (carefully) and with the jackstands under the rear axle ends, rotate the driveshaft to get the ring gear coated with lube again. Another little precaution that might save a good deal of money later. When you do get it running again, drive it slowly for the first 10 miles or so to let things get used to being operational again, also being sure to turn some corners too. Those cars can be made into really neat cars. All of the Police Nova sway bars and such will bolt on to improve the handling a good bit. Put some KONI shocks with that and some good performance radials and it can be one great car that is powerful (if it's got the Buick V-8), luxurious, and fun to drive. Key thing is to do all of the prep work before you get the engine fired off and roll it around again. As for collectible value, not just yet, but as fewer of those cars are around, if you have a nice one, it'll always be worth something (not necessarily a gold mine, though). Enjoy! NTX5467

I wasn't aware of the "Anonymous" title until tonight. I had been being welcomed and acknowledged with each entrance into this forum since the format change and I relogged in then. I knew that it didn't pick me up in one of the other forums, but it started to in here (which someone mentioned had to do with cookies and such). Then, it recognized me in the other forums too. Things were going great, you might say, as they had been with the previous format. What I did notice that night when I did those posts was that the number of posts on each subject since my prior visit were no longer listed . . . but I noticed tonight that they are now back. I'm aware of the "remember me" item, but I suspect that if it remembered me previously, it can regain its memory too. I also noticed tonight that the "Anon" situation has caught other regular participants too. That's what makes me think something happened that we had no bearing on. Perhaps I'm wrong? Thanks for the advisory and I'll make sure my user name is listed before I make any more posts, and login if not. As for the aftermarket top, plain and simple, it's not something GM did and will not show up on the option code labels on the vehicle. For those of you that thought the vehicle was something special, it is, but just didn't come that way from Buick (or any other manufactuer whose vehicle they might appear on). Call it "distinctive owner customization/personalizaton", if you will. Enjoy! NTX5467

I've also been in the GM dealership parts area for quite some time too and will concur with those comments. I might also add that when someone calls up wanting a price on a sensor a mechanic shop or auto supply has told them they need and the dealership parts person tries to find that particular item in the parts database, only to discover that their year, vehicle, and engine combination does NOT have that part, it does tend to elevate the parts person's "oil pressure". Instead of pulling the codes and going from there, people always want a "magic bullet" fix like their friend got (nothing wrong with that at all) but it doesn't always work that way. When I'd get one of those calls/inquiries on a non-existent part for their vehicle's emissions system, I'd ask them if they had pulled the codes. Their reply indicated that they didn't know about those things and were going on the "expert advise" of their "advisor". My comment was to the effect that, just as in the "old days", several different things can cause the same problem, you can chunk parts at things all day and still not get it fixed. Only difference is that now the parts are expensive parts (usually) and being electrical, are not returnable. That tends to drive home the fact that they need to get someone to look at their vehicle that knows what they are doing. I then would transfer them to the service advisor (I usually tried to have one or more that I would trust with such calls) so they would have a better idea of the costs involved to accurately diagnose their vehicle's situation--even if that vehicle never graced our service drive with its presence. During the middle '80s when we were deep into "thermal vacuum switches", I found an AC-Delco book on just those switches. It was a great tool to use when the customer did not know what they had or how to determine what they had. In addition to the application charts, it also listed the switches on each GM vehicle and year model in the back. If you wanted to know what switches were on a particular model, year, and engine of Buick, it was all right there. In the earlier years of computerized vehicles, the codes would usually change yearly as the computers and emissions hardware was upgraded and such. OBDII on the later models standardized that somewhat. So, if you get a book that decoded the trouble codes, make sure it is not just for one year of GM vehicle. Even with the code books you might find at the auto supply, there could be some discrepancies compared to the GM service manual. Then, there were the callers that inquired what a certain code meant. At least their heart was in the right place, but they never did put that info in the parts books, so I again sent them to the service department people. At the present time, the closest thing I have to a computerized vehicle is a '80 Chrysler Newport 360V-8 with the Lean Burn setup. Even this allegedly onerous setup is not that hard to figure out. Just as with the GM things, it all works on voltages and resistance. I'll probably end up with a late model or new GM vehicle in the future, but I'm not afraid of the electronics one bit. Just have to understand what you're dealing with. Don't expect me to take an ASE Certification test on those things though, but I'll sell the parts all day long. Not that these vehicles have to specifically come back to the dealer for these repairs or that a motivated private individual might do them themselves, just don't expect that all vehicles are the same when they can be very different. Having the appropriate GM service manual can be a very good investment to make. Just some additional thoughts . . . NTX5467

I am pleased that you have had such exceptional service from those vehicles. It tends to prove that American vehicles are not the "poor excuses" that many seem to perceive they are. I wish you well in your ventures, NTX5467

I concur with John. A change of service department might be appropriate. The only reason I could perceive that a dealership would refuse that work would be if they just don't have anyone capable of doing it or don't want to get a stall tied up for days on end chasing something that will generate little real profit--or a really big labor bill for the customer and generate "comebacks" in the future. Several possible orientations there, but it would be hard to judge that situation remotely. Many times, it's hard to track these things. From the description, it sounds like what might be an "alternator whine" as it's related to engine speed. Some times, an extra capacitor might be inserted somewhere to decrease it. I'll check the bulletins to see what I can find, but don't recall seeing anything about that lately. When we did the 2001 service bulletin updates on our parts database, all we get now are year model 2000 and up in the service bulletin database, so tracking it might be not so easy. Perhaps if they claim there is a bulletin, they can pull if off of the GM Tech Assistance computer? It could well be some ground problem or the loss of some electronic shielding for some reason. If you can hear it more with the hood up, it can be a shielding issue. Could also be several other things on modern vehicles too. I'll see what I can find out, though. Enjoy! NTX5467