B Jake Moran

NO 1956 Executive 4 door is worth $26,000. People need to get real. All 1956 Packards are in a way neat. Executive 2 door hardtops were nice cars and a well sorted #2 car should be worth $20,000. But a four door sedan with a fixed B pillar is only a $15,000 car. $25,000? No way.

I see both sides. I prefer automatics now that I’m 60. I want my focus on the road and the driving experience. My wife has a 6 speed manual 2020 Camaro with 425 hp 6.2. There is a visceral feeling that can not be matched by an automatic. I’ve had a few manuals in my life, most fun. On the other hand there is not much fun with a 1950 American car with a 3 speed on the column and no power steering.

3 would be fun, yes.

Last year I did a deep dive into the C4s. Bought a good buyers guide. The affordability was the reason plus I like them. This particular car really speaks to me as I love that rare color and saddle interior. Are you kidding me? Where else can you find a collectible car for under $10,000 with 49,000 miles? I drove a 1993 Polo Green convertible with 17,000 original miles for $16,000. I used facebook marketplace and ended up saving at least 20 cars within 200 miles of me in central Iowa. I could have added another 25. I narrowed my search parameters. This car certainly would have appealed to me but I became a horsepower geek. The first gen of C4 84-87 I avoided. Low HP and the original style wheels. The 88-90s had these style of wheels and I like them the best. I found maybe 2-3 I saved including an insanely low priced 7,500 original mile convertible for $15,000. Weirdly, it went unsold for months because the owner was not familiar with Facebook marketplace and his son put it on and navigated the interest poorly. He didn’t care a whole lot. But I focused on the 92-96 cars. 1996 was the last year. Lower production and they offered the fastest non ZR1 engine. I was working with a seller in Charles City, Iowa with a collectors edition 1996 coupe with a 6 speed manual. We agreed on $15,500. I believe it had 55,000 miles or so but he had done a lot of work on it. That’s just it, a serious buyer needs to sift out the crap from the well owned cars. If I ask about maintenance and repair history and the response is none or what? I moved on. It’s easy to say it runs good and is well maintained, it’s another thing entirely to back it up with paper. I ended up buying a 2007 Mazda Miata which had the top of the line package for $10,500 with then 55,600 miles. Stack of receipts, clothe convertible top, highest option package. But I would still love a C4 Corvette like this 1988 which as someone pointed out can likely be purchased for $9,000. I specifically excluded the common colors seen and focused on Polo Green with saddle interiors, odd colors minimally produced in a particular year like a Teal Green color they offered, this Burgundy with saddle is simply beautiful. Bright red was a common color. Black. White. I did look at a 1994 White convertible with black top even though I don’t like white too much. Interior choices were still varied such as a blood red leather and dark blue. My obvious favorite is saddle so I would always look for that. I remember finding a 1996 black coupe with saddle interior. But what someone stated about speed is correct. The 17,000 mile 1994 Polo Green convertible I test drove was rated at 0-60 in about 6.4 seconds I think but a person got a sense these cars were touring cars. Not speed demons. I probably won’t buy one. I just bought a 1981 Camaro Z28 project car with T Tops and the Miata scratches the same itch, but I hope I don’t regret it.

Why are original style seating upholstery so hard to do? I can’t believe the old car hobby has not found a way to provide original style upholstery. SMS has always been way behind on filling orders so demand is there. But for these casual owners such as this car, how can an owner compromise so much as to reupholster in such a non correct way?

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 66 Toronado with white interior.

V8?

That’s where the inquirer needs to check.

A well sorted small pre 5mph bumper car might be collectible but appreciation is limited because it’s supposed to be an SL. I’ve owned 3 small bumper 72-73 SLs. If the SLC speaks to you I understand. But appreciation ( monetarily and collector wise ) seems unlikely.

Fred was a status seeker. Ward was the humble conservative type. Fred was always kind of putting Ward and the Cleavers down, subtly.

Arguably better than an 84 Cadillac Seville, which it copied. Another one of those “3rd or 4th” cars in a multi car collection but never the 1st.

Just another greedy seller wanting you to line their pockets with cash. You can tell from ad content that the seller knows nothing about Packards. True Packard sellers note the series (21 I believe), they know the engine size, wheelbase etc.

Since I am a generalist, I don't have to own a Cadillac, so I am comparing to Buicks, and other nice cars on here or that have been on here and in forum discussion and $25,000 seems too high for most. Again, I point to what Matt Harwood said about the wealthy guys who make this amount in interest in less than an hour. BUT, I don't see them clamoring to buy closed Cadillacs from this era needing at least another $25,000 in mechanical sorting.

Marketplace - 1941 Packard 120 | Facebook Seller's Description This is a 1941 Packard straight 8. It has the manual transmission with overdrive. Someone put a lot of money into painting the body and having the chrome redone, but never fully finished the project. The front body parts and drivetrain are currently removed. I started the engine with starter fluid before pulling it. It ran well and had good oil pressure (I have a video of it). My plan was to hone the cylinders, probably put in new piston rings/gaskets and go from there. The water pump is froze, so that will also need to be replaced. The old 6 volt wiring will also need to be replaced. Brake system will need to be gone through. The car is pretty complete with only some misc. pieces missing. The radio is missing, some small bezels, interior windshield trim, and misc. chrome pieces here and there. All of these parts can be found on eBay, Packard forums, swap meets, etc.. I will include everything with the car that I received with it. I'd really like to finish the project, but my garage.

I believe 1925 was the 1st year that closed cars out numbered open cars in US production.

I’d love to have that but the “ran when parked” is not appropriate.

Nick- I am near Ames and go there every week on business. I would be glad to check it out. I am not an AACA member, I am a CLC member, have owned several older vehicles including a 1942 GMC 3/4T truck and a 1949 Advanced Design Chevy 1/2 T truck. If I can help I can be reached at 515-330-6998 or moranb2864@gmail.com.

Yep,sold. So much for my pricing pontificating. Of course we won’t know what it sold for.

While I am sure most new Vegas were junk, if a person were to restore one, it would likely be tighter than new. These and Pintos, Mavericks, many other 70's cars seemed to suffer from poor build quality. Yet it never ceases to amaze me how many cars were sold in the 1970's, Millions! Very few cars are "rare" from the 70's. Looking at this ad specifically, I would buy the non running but complete one, but it always bothers me when I see these ads where 2 or more cars are being sold and they won't separate. This ad does not specifically say he won't separate but it's implied and other ads I have seen clearly state that. Who has the ability to bring in 2 cars, in this case, from Washington state to Iowa? ONE car would be $1400 transport fee, or over half the cost of the car. Even going down to California it would likely be $700 transport. I'd love a Cosworth Vega to restore. But you would be better off with a Triumph TR6, Datsun 240or 260Z, etc.

I can't tell if he is happy you got rid of it, or unhappy you ever bought it.

I am in the Cadillac LaSalle Club and these are discussed there and I used to post Not Mine finds. They are neat, and timely, butin my opinion can never be a #1 car. Meaning #1 in your collection. I guess they could be, but for me I think Sevilles make a nice #2 or #3 car. After the convertible, and the 2 door hardtop, OK, let's get a Seville. They aren't necessarily rare, and they are "kind of" homogenous, meaning they were all 4 door sedans, well equipped with few options. Personally this car, though long sold, checks many of my boxes. Dark color, whether Black, Blue, Red or Green with that now almost gone and forgotten dark saddle leather interior (which has kind of made a comeback). . Again, a nice $6,000 3rd car to take out on club events, maybe tour if in the AACA. But I am not dropping $15,000 on a low mileage one. Before I handed over my $15K, I would pause, and think of all the cars I could buy that would be way cooler than a 76-79 Seville. By the way, I group ALL Sevilles in this class. The Bustleback Sevilles are certainly collectible (through 1981, do not buy a 1982-1985 Cadillac, any) The downsized Sevilles from 1986 to 1991 were marginally collectible, probably not, but a well appointed low mileage example, especially with the 4.9L would be a nice #3 car. Finally, the last generation was a long run. I am looking at the 2003-2005s. In these last 3 years, production was greatly decreased. 2004, for instance, saw only 3,386 examples. 2005 137. Supposedly, Cadillac finally fixed the Northstar issues by 2002. Arguably, Sevilles and it's cousin the Eldorado were some of the last American styled cars ever made. Decidedly modern, but not looking like a goofish Mercedes or BMW, they were clean sheet penned Cadillacs. Yet, they delivered quiet driving enjoyment, comfort, and 28 mpg. Consider a 2003-2005 Seville as that "3rd" car.

Marketplace - 1957 Lincoln Premiere | Facebook Rust free Arizona car. Good title. Runs with bottle, bad fuel pump. Drives and stops but needs work.

I don’t think anybody but that does not stop the current greed marketplace sellers from trying. Hard to say, but when I advertise something for sale I want to move it on. I in turn have lost $150,000 on the hobby over the years. But these sellers seem to not adjust price. “Don’t like it, move on” they usually say. Or “where you going to find another one” is something I commonly hear. Sellers are myopic. They think because it’s rare people will push each other over to buy what they have. But, as a generalist, I am comparing the value of buying this car with many other cars in mind. Of course none are 42 Buick convertibles, but they are all rare and interesting in their own rite. I am reminded for instance of a low mileage 55 Century convertible I found at least a year ago on Facebook marketplace for asking $10,000. Still for sale last time I checked. Are these sellers incredulous that we lucky buyers haven’t showed up with wheelbarrows of cash? What is a good price for this 42? Well, virtually anyone will tell you the restoration age is over. Done. Not even high end cars are worth restoring. Therefore projects of any kind have no value. The right price is “0”. I am not sure what the right price is but $4,000 seems right. Most of these lucky sellers buy or own these cars for less than 10% of their greedy asking price.

*** Update *** I got my 1st Hemmings Motor News from the subscription. 1st observation is it is half the size of the last one I remember, and that is , well, not a bad thing. Definitely no longer a hobbyist to hobbyist sales marketplace, about 95% "dealer" ads, and I think Hemmings has a new requirement - 1. Ad price must be 4 x the average #2 sales guide price. My god, everything seemed to be $100,000. I saw a 1980 Ford Futura with 30,000 miles for $75,000 asking! Most of the dealer ads say "CALL" next to the hot rod, er, resto mod, er muscle car. 2. The Beverly Hills Car Club has most of the ads in the make sections. Without this dealer, Hemmings doesn't exist. 3. Most of the writers in the front have left, leaving one guy who openly claims "I know nothing about pre war cars." 4. See #2, and add a few more ads by Gullwing. 5. VOLO Auto Museum is having a big sale. They have too many cars! OMG. So they have slashed the prices from $95,000 for a 1971 Chevy Nova SS Restomod to, well, CALL. I can use this for some parts vendors, but I don't need 12 issues for that. There won't be any "deals" next month. I imagine the clientele Hemmings caters to are the salt and pepper millionaires who come home empty from BJ Scottsdale. They don't care if they line the dealers pockets with a $60,000 profit as long as they can puff up at the next show n shine with their restomod. I saw exactly ONE car I may be interested in pursuing and that was a 1920's Buick Master 6 from - you guessed it - The Beverly Hills Car Club for $7500. I will read some of the color pages in the front in the next couple of weeks. But wow, I don't see this marketplace magazine being available 10 years from now. I will be 70, and the hobby another 10 years on. Hemmings staff will be bare bones, automated and just a restomod magazine of maybe 125 pages. Maybe.

Agree, not a big deal 56 or 57, but another reason there was no change is the extensive tooling, set aside plant for the Continental. Ford lost a crap load on these cars for sure. This was a bad era for Ford, like it or not. Continental was almost killed from the start, we know Edsel was, 2 seat T Bird, the halo car to fight the Corvette, 3 years. Instead McNamara square took over.