Buffalowed Bill

Gary, Do you know that the arms are different? The early ones, through 1930 I believe, are bent while the later type are straight like the ones you pictured.-Bill

Mars, Think of VW when you think of the KG because that is what it is, admittedly in a very pretty body. If 40-50 hp is acceptable to you go for it, but it seems to me that from your previously owned cars you crave a little more comfort then a basic 4 cyl buzz-box with no cabin heat in the winter. It is great in the snow but as those of us who live on the west side of the mountains know that is of little consequence unless you intend to go into the mountains regularly. The Volvo is so much better car and with the electric OD is a real highway cruiser. The 1800 is the car that retired guy has logged three million miles on and is still going! Just curious but did the ES come from the Seattle area as a good friend passed the car on to someone in Oregon before his recent passing. He wanted me to have it but I waffled too long and then it was gone. I took several of his cars but there are limits to what we can do.-Bill

I was just trying to decide whether to make the 160 mi. trip (one way) when I noticed the thread. I used to go almost every year when Pierce Arrow group had a Saturday night dinner at George Chobin's Maricus restaurant (please excuse the spelling). Twice I have shown cars there, the first time thirty five years ago, where has the time gone! Both times I was fortunate enough to win my class, so my memory of participation have always been positive. As a spectator I have always found the low key environment with the fine quality and eclectic mix of cars very enjoyable.-Bill

Rusty, I find your comments regarding the US Postal Service offensive and without anything of substance to back it up. By ascribing some imagined political agenda as being the cause for a damaged parcel from Canada is laughable, what an imagination!-Bill

Thanks for the pictures! I was afraid that the weather was not going to hold up for the meet. Glad to see the good turnout and decent weather.-Bill

I don't know about Maryland but in the state of Washington cars older then 25 years old don't require an admission test for licensing. This would allow for any kind of upgrade you choose without the need for an inspection at licensing time. It could be that with only 107,000 in 27 yrs. your car has had more then its share of short runs where the engine never got up to running temperature. Could be that the engine has stuck rings because of carbon build up. In 1991 I decided to drive the 1963 Studebaker Dayton ht. with 65,000 miles on it from Seattle to California and then on to Las Vegas and return via Hwy. 395. The car was left to me in my father's estate and had been sitting in a garage for 7 years, unused in his garage. I had to unstick several valves but after freeing up the valves it seemed to run fine around town. Once I got it out on the road it started to use oil, about a quart of oil in 125 miles. By the way the car had and still has its original 259 cu." V8. About 200 miles into the trip I realized that oil consumption was going to be a problem but I didn't want to turn back so I bought a case of 12 quarts of oil and continued on. The car ran fine and was getting about 23 mpg. with no plug fouling! By the time we reached Vegas all 12 qts. of oil were used up so I bought another case for the return trip. I checked the level about 125 miles out and to my surprise it was no down at all. Checked again at Reno and it was still up. The upshot was that in the 1400 mi. return trip the car used a little less then one quart. The rings had unstuck and reseated themselves and was now like the 70,000 mile car that I expected it to be. Over the last 25 yrs. I have toured with it for some 40,000 miles, around the western US and Canada even into Mexico, with no issues. I can't say that a long hot run can do for you what it did for "Malarky" and me but I think that it might be worth a try.

trimacar, A little story regarding the SA that you formerly owned. I will try to do justice to the story as I remember but thirty years can dim the memory a bit so I'm sure that you will help with any corrections or omissions. As you know after my good friend WMcD bought the car he and another good friend, PM, decided to drive the car back to Washington state. The journey was born out of the necessity of having to transport the car but I'm sure that the opportunity for adventure was the reason that they chose to drive the car rather then have it shipped. Thirty years ago we all were a great deal more willing to accept a challenge. I'm sure that the trip would never have been attempted if PM hadn't been such a fine mechanic. By the way PM continues to do mechanical restorations in the restoration shop that he and his brother run. One morning they woke up to find snow on the ground and I remember that they had to use the hair dryer to thaw the car out, but I can't remember that the rest of the trip was much of a problem. At some point the original engine had been swapped for another V12 of the right year and the original engine was not part of the McD purchase. I doubt that very many collectors cared as much about matching numbers as we do today. I always thought that it would have been nice to at least have the original engine but nobody seemed to know or even care what had happened to the original engine. Then something unbelievable happened, several years later while we were on garage tour we were in the garage of a noted collector MA where as part of his display was a V12 PA engine on an engine stand. Low and behold it was he original engine that had come out of the SA years before and two thirds of the way across the country! MA had purchased the engine as a spare while he was restoring his 1934 V12 coupe without knowing any of the history of the engine or what car it had come out of originally. I wish that I could report that providence had made it possible for the reuniting car and engine, but I doubt that ever happened. Baring any changes I guess I will have to be satisfied the rest of the story will include the irony of car and original engine taking completely different routes across the country, at different times only to end up a few miles apart years later.

Wilf, I used to buy what you a talking about in crystal form, and mix with warm water but I can't remember the brand name. Just soaked the rusty parts and scrubbed then periodically to get as much of the black converted rust off as possible. When you fed up with soaking and scrubbing the part was dried and whatever particles of rust that were left was converted to an inert black compound that could be primed and painted. I don't know why it wouldn't work for a tank but I would rather take it to my radiator guy. He diligently cleans, dries and uses a quality sloshing product that they use on diesel truck tanks and does it for less then $200 as a matter of fact the last one he did for me he charged me $125. Both Bill Hirsch and Eastwood sell a fine and comparable sloshing sealer if you want to do it yourself but be careful the end of the pickup tube in the tank can be plugged with whatever you put in to slosh the tank. My radiator guy rigged up a fitting to the tank outlet so that he could periodically blow a shot of air back through the line so that it wouldn't clog up as it dried.

I used to love the route when it was two lane hwy. through Nevada and Utah, today be prepared for some high speed travel or the trucks will run you off the road! In 1968 I ran out of gas about 13 miles east of Wells driving my 1963 Cutlass convertible because I was too cheap to pay the 45 cents a gallon that they wanted in Elko and there were no gas stations between Elko and Wells. I walked about a quarter of a mile and got a ride into Wells, borrowed a gas can at the station, caught another ride immediately going the other direction and was on the road in about an hour. Different times and I miss them terribly and that is why I often take the road less traveled today. The Great Salt Lake Desert and the Bonneville Salt Flats raceway. You won't have to go looking for it though cause you will be right in the middle of it! You might like to check out the National Studebaker Museum in South Bent Indiana. It's on the way and I know that you will like it.

Don't take your 100 point show car on tour and don't try to show your driver and expect to win. I know some clubs require a short driving tour before they allow it to be judged but just don't press your luck. The fact is that without a great deal of needless effort your show car will never be good enough for concourse and your driver will almost always disappoint if you expect to be competitive.

Rear fenders do not interchange between coupe and sedan.

TJ, Sorry on second look what I think that is an aluminum head and I see no indication of a front driven water pump.

TJ, Think that you may have a later engine then 1937. I notice that you have the later cast iron head instead of the aluminum head used from 1935-37. Not a big deal since at least half of the cars that came with the aluminum have had them swapped out in favor of the more durable cast head anyway. What I can't tell is how the water pump is driven, through 1937 it should be driven off the back of the generator which uses a shaft and reinforced cloth flex joints. Engines built 1938-1942 used a water pump with which would probably be more familiar, on the front of the enginne.

Thanks for the location information. I'm from the Seattle area, maybe will get to see your car sometime. There is no AACA activity in the NW an alternative is the GEAA which is a pre war group out of Tacoma but with members all over the NW. Check it out it might be something that you may want to look into.

As you can see, most of the people here vote for keeping it as you found it. It's taken a long time for some car collectors to be comfortable with an unrestored car. Today what was once called shabby is called patina and is part of the story of the car's survival. In the end you have to do what is right for you and what makes you comfortable, but keep in mind that whatever you do to its appearance also changes your graphic ability to tell that story to folks like us to whom the story is part of the car itself. My advice is to make it a runner and use it like it is until you are overwhelmed with the need to do something more extreme like taking it out of service to restore it. By the way which side of the mountains do you reside, don't have to tell me where just which side.

TJ Good work! With your enthusiasm and a good deal of work you can do what the sixty years that Mr. Witten could not accomplish, that of getting it on the road. Enjoyed with the process, do it right, without short cuts and I'm sure you will be rewarded by the results. Personally I think that there are few Studebakers as beautiful and unique as your car. Now your challenge is to be able to share it with the rest of the world, people will love it! Keep in touch.-Bill

What MarsCars said, cars like you are considering are not as long lived as a new car. At 20000 miles a year your car will not last very long, a rebuild can be expensive and leave you without transportation for awhile. People do use older cars for transportation but generally have multiple cars to make it work for them.

Just had an a brain surge which made me want to ask what these cars that the high auction prices are being made unaffordable, are they Classics, muscle cars, 50's cars, fat fendered 40's cars, or are we talking about some of the exotic European cars? What is the magic price that makes a car unaffordable? Prices go up as people buy cars because they can't get any interest on their savings or because the cost of borrowing is inexpensive or because people see signs of an the Bull Market changing. The car market prices go up and down as the economy surges and contracts. I don't think that this is either bad or good but rather how the world economy works. The weak dollar with relationship to some of the foreign currencies has stimulated foreign sales of American and foreign cars alike. For over twenty years the street rodder has made it difficult for the stock car people to compete in some segments of the market as they seem to be willing to pay more for the good original cars and old restorations. The auctions just serve as another forum for display, no different then Ebay or Craig's List and no different then the service that Hemming's has provided for many years. Even with high auction prices I still see only a moderate upward price movement in the market that I doubt would change any informed person's opinion on a moderately priced car's value, but I do see the publicity surrounding the auctions effecting the uninformed folks understanding of the value of some old cars. There seems to be a large number of pre War cars that have come on the market lately as their owners find themselves unable to care for them. I think that there is bound to be a ripple affect with the post War and muscle car market as the Baby Boomers begin to feel their age. Will it save some cars from being scrapped, I hope so, only time will tell. For the younger car guy patience is a virtue as supply and demand will even out and prices will stabilize, just hang in there and you will be rewarded.

2/24/1944 Spokane Washington reported to have come home in a 1940 Studebaker Champion 2dr sedan.

I wholeheartedly agree with the article and with Matt's comments. There will always be some people who desire to own the best, and willing to pay the price. With the cost of a restoration being what it is, I really doubt that very many sellers actually recoup what they have invested in their car. A fresh restoration and the value of a car at the top of the market is a fleeting phenomenon, wait too long and the value can be markedly reduced. While it is certainly nice to own one or more cars considered to be among the best of their kind, vanity or the bottom line is not the prime reason some of us have aimed for perfection. Until about twenty five years ago having a perfect car could be really important to having a car first looked at and then recognized as historically significant. Today the story of the survival of a car has become so important, for real car people, that it may be more important then how pretty it is. Thankfully I had that mindset change at about twenty five years ago and it has greatly enhanced my enjoyment of the hobby. I began to switch my attention to the well maintained driver car and try to enjoy it while trying to continuing to maintain without major restoration and to search out the story of its survival. Unfortunately, what its worth or how good the paint is important to hold the interest of a significant number of casual fans. The health of the old car hobby depends on interesting enough of these casual fans and then also important to educate them as to the history of a particular car and why it is ok for a car not to need it to be pristine. There is room for both the ego driven perfectionist and the less well healed hobbyist. There will always be more then enough affordable collector cars, especially as we old-timers die off. Those in their middle years cannot help but reap the benefit from the changing demographics in the hobby, but for these affordable cars to be accepted there have to venues where they can be seen and where they can be loved for what they are rather then ridiculed for what they are not. For some it will require a mindset change based on economic and historical reality, but if successful it will allow the hobbyist to relax and enjoy what he has and appreciate what others have. It really does make life a great deal more enjoyable.

Great find, there are probably less then ten of these cars in existence and several of those did not start out as President coupes. The President coupes are so sought after that some owners have successfully married Dictator coupe bodies (President and Dictator bodies are the same) with the longer President straight eight chassis. I happen to own one of the few originals of which there are no more then seven or eight survivors. Restoration of your find should not be taken lightly parts are really scarce, especially internal engine parts. Rod and main bearings are virtually nonexistent, pistons have to be custom made and unfortunately 1936/1937 crank shafts have a tendency to develop cracks, about half of then I have found have been cracked. They also used aluminum heads which tend to have deteriorated over the last seventy seven years, go figure. The staid portion of the floor only covers about two thirds of the floor area, from back, to just in front of where the seat would have been bolted in. The front part of the floor is in three section and outboard sections are screwed down to a flange running along the area of the kick panel and in screwed down in the center to the transmission hump section, which is also removable. I have some rusty patterns which I anticipate replicating. Let me know if you can use a set. The seat has a wooden frame which contains a long screw mechanism operated by a chrome handle which allows for several inches of seat adjustment. The car needs to be saved! If you have the chance to bring it back I sincerely doubt that you will be disappointed.-Bill

You might try Sandy Olson, at Olson's Gaskets. He probably will be able to help identify and might be in the market for what you have. To enable him to maintain his inventory he travels all over the country, on his way to swap meets, to purchase items similar to what you have.

I have been traveling across the country for over fifty years. In that time there is little that I haven't seen, including about ninety percent of Route 66. While the route is interesting and unique in its way, it is far from the best road if beautiful scenery is your goal. I like it even though I think that it is over hyped. If it is to be your only trip I would choose another route but if you have your heart set on the route do it now because neither you or your old vehicle will like the heat!

Thanks, I have often thought of the yard because it was so unique, even twenty five years ago, but I did have the feeling that I was witnessing it's death throes. Last year, while in Colorado Springs, I considered driving home that way but it had been so hot and then there were the wild fires. I never thought about Google. I still have hopes that someone else on the forum will remember it. My lady friend says that I showed her the pictures so they must be around, I'll look again.-Bill

My best guess is as you suggested, but I really can't be sure. Twenty + years is a long time, just glad that I could remember the town! As I remember we were going towards Durango, which would have put us on 160. It was only a short distance out of town and I think that we had already gone through Cortez. I can't believe that a, then, forty + year old yard would have been unnoticed in the Four Corners area. In a few years nobody will be around who remembers it, So it was now or never.-Bill