JV Puleo

I think the engine is easily the most challenging part of the job, especially as I suspect it is associated with the chassis (although it is the right engine) and was both incomplete and much of what was there in poor condition. For that, I still need to finish the pistons, make the connecting rods, make bearing shells and do the Babbitt work. I'm sure there must be a dozen more items to be addressed but those are the big ones. I think that, after the engine is back together, the chassis itself will not be as big a challenge but we'll see. Of course I'd like it to be driveable but I have no fixed time frame in mind. It would be pointless because I am hopeless at estimating how much time something will take. I will have to build a body too so I'm guessing I have at least 6 or 8 more years work here. But, I've nowhere to go in any case. I have little interest in the local car shows and don't own a trailer or anything to pull one with. Anywhere it goes will have to be under it's own power. I'm really more interested in doing a good job than I am in the finished product. Here's the chassis and rear axle... I'll have to make a radiator as the one I have is in poor shape and I'm still looking for a decent pair of seats although I've found most of the parts I started looking for 6 years ago.

I'm sure you are right on that. The contemporary engineering manual I'm using specifically mentions that the pumps are designed to give relatively low circulation. Since I intend to incorporate a thermostat I'm not too worried about having too much circulation. I think the original water capacity was about 3 to 3-1/2 gallons so 4 gal. per minute is probably too much. My water passages go from 1" to 3/4" (from pump to blocks) and from 3/4 to 1" (blocks to radiator) That comes from copying the original fittings. I never had the tubes but a couple of the fittings were still on the blocks and I do have the original radiator although it is in poor condition. I am planning to make a cartridge core radiator which will have a larger capacity than the original so I may be able to hold as much as 4 gallons.

The finished hole in the backing plate. It's only about .001 oversize so I'm pleased with how it came out. I won't have the material to go on with this until late Monday so I'm fixing a problem with the lathe. Notice the flaw in the casting that showed up when I was boring. Fortunately, it isn't important and when the bushing is pressed in will be gone forever. In order to cut the 5TPI thread I have to replace a 22 tooth gear with a 44 tooth gear. (You set the gearbox to 10 TPI and use the bigger gear which halves the rotation of the lead screw.) I've taken this gear off before but it is a real bear. I'd pulled the entire drive unit out of the lathe and knocked the center pin out with a plastic hammer. I don't like doing things that way so I made this an aluminum sleeve that can be squeezed on to the gear so I can get a gear puller on it. The gear fits flush against another gear so It is impossible to get the gear puller behind it. It wouldn't work with a bigger gear and I doubt it would work if the gear was really tight but it did suffice in this case. I measured the hole in the gear and find it's about .004 over 1". I'd reamed the hole in the 44 tooth gear so it's really too tight to slip on. Tomorrow I'll lap it to smooth out the ID and get it just a bit bigger. I may put some threaded holes in it to so I can get it off with a three-leg puller. This gear was missing when I got the lathe. Probably it was never used and misplaced long ago. I found this one on ebay. I had to bore it out and put the key way in but that's a lot easier than cutting the gear from scratch.

I took Mike's suggestion and calculated the flow rate. I get 4 gal per minute at 862 RPM - about 25MPH if my figures are accurate. How that converts to cooling capacity I don't know, especially as I haven't made a radiator yet but I'm guessing it is right in the ball park. One formula I saw in the link Mike M provided was to divide the HP by 3 to get the rate of flow in liters. I used 50HP - which I'm certain is much more than it originally generated and came up with 16 liters. Four gallons is slightly more than 15 liters. But, everything I've seen on the internet is aimed at modern cars which run much hotter than brass cars so, if that is a valid formula, I probably have excess capacity.

To make a backing plate for a chuck you need something to gauge the threads with. When you are doing it for a lathe with a threaded spindle you obviously can't use the actual spindle because it's on the lathe and the part you are threading is attached to it. Making one for the dividing head is much the same so yesterday I started on the dummy spindle. I didn't have the material I wanted to use (12L14) so I took a chance and use a piece of mystery metal I had. Most of the time that works out but this time it didn't. I got to this point... and discovered that it threaded very poorly. To match the dividing head I have to cut a 1-3/4-5 thread - an unusual size to say the least. My lathe can do it but it requires changing one of the drive gears and cutting a thread this course turns up a lot of burrs. In this case, the threading tool actually stuck in one of the threads, it turned slightly on the mandrel and screwed up (pun intended) the result. So, I broke down and ordered the right stuff - it should be here by the end of the week or maybe Monday. In the meantime I found a chuck backing plate I think I can use in my box of miscellaneous machine parts I've saved over the years. It's too large in every dimension, including the hole in the center so to fix that I will press in a big steel bushing to bore and thread. Luv2wrench will like this because it is exactly the same technique I used to fix the bull gear on his lathe - which is also why I know it works. I'm boring it out to 2.125 which will allow plenty of room for the smaller thread I have to cut. I did get a good finish on the inside but you bore cast iron in back gears meaning that the lathe is running extremely slowly. It actually takes 20 minutes to make a single pass although you can take deeper cuts than you would with any other material. I've one more pass to make and I can put it aside.

That is a good idea and I'm feeling clunky for not thinking of it. I'll need to find a stopwatch. It would also be useful to find some period flow figures... all of those in the link naturally presume modern engines and are predicated on horsepower figures that aren't easily converted to 1910 specifications. But, it's worth following up. At the very least I'll find out what the flow rate is. jp

I took my time and finished setting up the test stand this morning. The only glitch was that I can't find the flat rubber O rings that seal the output coupling. I used a little pile of fiber washers instead - it's not perfect but it worked. I got a tiny drip but I'm certain with the correct seal in place it will be fine. That was really important because I've never been able to test these before and I used them on the engine as well. The output was somewhat gentler than it was the last time. Not having a flow meter, or knowing what the flow should be, this is a matter of guessing but I think that as long as the water is moving I should be OK. The vinyl tubing has a larger diameter than the copper tubing the water will be flowing through so in use the pressure slightly higher. I only had one leak that is cause for concern - at the lower edge of the output tube. I had anticipated this but it was impossible to tell, from the inside of the pump, if it would leak. I have an idea of how to fix it but I thought I'd wait until I'd tested it first - there was no point of fixing it if it wasn't a problem. The problem is the relief I cut for the threads on this piece. Had I come up with the technique of doing a stopped thread at the time I made this, I wouldn't have this problem but once assembled it isn't practical to take it apart. I could have it welded like the last one but I like the look of it without the weld bead so I'll try my other fix first. The pump ran very quietly and smoothly There was no noise except the motor and none of the seals leaked at the ends or around the edges so I'm convinced the basic design is sound. The original pump was both smaller and purposely designed to decrease the flow ... keeping it down so that the water had time to cool when going through the radiator.

I put an 8" sheave on that shaft to get some leverage. It isn't binding, actually it's turning very smoothly without any rubbing sounds. It's just a bit tight, probably from the seals rubbing.

I reassembled the pump today to get a measurement for the height of the impeller. Then faced the end off to match, Then I pressed the bushing into the input side. I had to turn the bushing on the output side down a bit to make room for the seal. Then I assembled it. I had hoped to test it today but this is fiddly work. The pump is tight and I'm not sure what is binding it up. It is probably just that the busnings on either end of the pump shaft are not in perfect alignment although they cant be out more and a few thousandths because everything went together. I think that is pretty much to be expected so tomorrow I'll keep at it and hopefully have it ready to test by the end of the day.

There isn't much room for oversize holes. If the holes are 1/4", twenty of them equals 5 inches of circumference. If I drill them on a 2-5/16 circle, I have .113 between the holes. The OD of the piece is 2.8" which allows just enough for the heads of the bolts and nuts if there is room for them. I'm undecided as to whether to use through bolts or thread one of the plates. I may do both so there are lock nuts. My first dividing head project came out surprisingly well. It's a gear on the inside of the apron of the lathe that has now been in everyday use for something like 8 years. That said, it is very easy to make a mistake.

I am usually in the UK in February so I was thinking of buying some and shipping it to myself.

I'm very curious to see how this comes out. A lot of people seem to forget - or maybe not know - that spray painting wasn't invented until about the 1920s. All brass cars were painted with a brush originally. The only real problem is that the paints aren't readily available any more although they sell "coach paint" in the UK and it's still done there. I don't have a place where I could spray paint either which is why I'm curious about your materials and the result.

You do get better the more you do it but I'm not sure the anxiety goes away. It certainly doesn't for me but perhaps that is because once we start doing stuff like this you're always pushing the envelope and trying something a bit harder. I doubt either of us will live long enough to be completely comfortable with every job. Its 4:30 here and I'm a nervous wreck from the milling job I just finished. I'm happy with the way it turned out but all the time I'm doing it I'm wondering what will go wrong. I know men who have done this all their lives and are VERY good at it and they still get tense when it's down to the last few cuts and any error will ruin the part.

I turned the big plate down to 3" to match the smaller one Then drilled and tapped holes for set screws. They will also get Woodruff keys opposite the set screws. Then put both pieces together in the lathe and turned them to the finished OD. I also checked to make sure the OD clears the block and the head of the bolt on the left front engine mount. They are still oversize on both ends but I can't adjust that until I'm able to assemble the parts on the engine. Except for the key ways and drilling the holes this is as far as I can go until I have line bored the on the crankcase and fitted bushings. Drilling the holes, however, presents a new problem because I don't think it can be done accurately enough with the rotary table. To work, it has 38 holes that have to align perfectly in any combination. This is a job that calls for the dividing head but to use that I will have to make a backing plate for the little chuck that screws on to the head. That's a relatively complicated job (though no more complicated than Mike McCartney's 5C adapter). I've been putting off doing it for at least 5 years but have, at least, found some of the bits I'll need. Brown & Sharpe used a 1-3/4-5 thread on these and the chance of finding a chuck with a backing plate in that size is just about zero. So, I went back to the pump, setting it up in the mill to remove the section of tube that projects into the water passage and, hopefully, clean up some of the rough surface. It worked better than I'd expected, leaving me wondering what I did wrong the first time. Now I have to finish the impeller and make some gaskets at which point I should be able to test it.

The hubs of the adjustable coupling are almost the same size as the nut on my stub arbor so I started by turning that down about .050...just to get a little clearance. And just as I started on that, the welder called to say the pump was ready so I closed up and went to get it. This time the weld looks better. It's still more prominent than I'd like and I haven't decided if it's worth the effort to smooth it out (the last one taking a week)... I have to think about that but it was an ordeal and I'm not sure it's worth the effort. The adjustable flange will go in the space between the front bearing mount (for the water pump/magneto drive shaft) and the rear mount which holds the water pump. Getting it all in there will take some careful fitting so I've left a little extra metal on both ends of the flanges pieces. It's a bit of a fiddle trying it too because I don't have either of the caps then went on these brackets. I decided I'd best get the flanges to the point where I can put them aside for the time being before I went back to the pump. As you can see - a lot of metal was removed. I also miscalculated the OD but, as luck would have it, a friend stopped in and I was able to get him to hold a piece while I measured. The actual OD of the flange will be 2.8". This one is 3.4". I turned the 2nd' one to 3" and when the holes for the set screws are drilled and tapped I will turn them down together to the finished size. That way, even if they are out by a few thousandths they will be identical.

This is what I'm making... An adjustable flanged coupling. One flange has 18 holes in it, the other has 20 holes but in both cases there are two holes exactly a 180 degrees from each other. If you move the driven part one hole in relation to the driving part it advances the timing 2 degrees. This should allow nearly unlimited adjustment of the ignition timing relative to the valve timing. The problem is that I only have 1-1/2" to work with for both flanges and they have to align with each other perfectly. Another advantage is that, as originally constructed, you'd have to remove the magneto driving gear in the front of the engine to service the water pump so if this works it should be an all-round improvement. This is from Heldt's Gasoline Automobile, 1911.

Try this one...

MIke...3mm is the right size. mine using a 3mm dowel pin but I see no reason why a grub screw wouldn't work just as well. jp

I finished the OD of the impeller this morning but I can't trim to the proper height until I get the rear plate back from the welder - that should be tomorrow. Then, because I didn't want to waste the day, I started on the adjustable coupling that will attach the water pump drive shaft to the pump. I'll have to post the illustration from PM Heldt later this evening so you can get an idea what's going on here. This piece of brass is something I bought some time ago to make an impeller - before I decided to go to aluminum. I indicated it and faced it off. Unfortunately there is a hole in the center and it is very far from concentric with the outside OD. This presents a problem because you can't drill it. The drill will want to follow the hole and in this case it's way off center. I put a 5/8" end mill in the tail stock of the lathe and very carefully "drilled" it. End mills are not made for this and you have to be very careful not to push it too hard. It's very easy to jam it by getting too big a chip on the end. You can see here just how far off the original hole was. It did work...and from this point I drilled and reamed it to 3/4". Then each piece went on the expanding arbor to face off both sides. This is the finished product. There is still a lot of material to remove and the diameter has to be reduced.

I dropped the input side of the pump off with the welder this morning and didn't get in until noon. After putting away some of the stuff I used yesterday I started on the impeller. Here it is indicated (using that boss in the center which was included in the casting expressly for this purpose). I drilled and reamed to 3/4" Then flipped it around and faced the bottom. I also turned the OD just enough to get it perfectly round. And put in a set screw. In its final form it will have both a set screw and a woodruff key. The set screw allows me to use a piece of 3/4 ground stock as a mandrel and exactly replicate the pump shaft. So that I was now able to turn the OD to the final size. Its still about .054 big but its the end of the day and I decided to leave this fussy bit for tomorrow morning.

12-20 was a real size, It was used on Stanley hand planes and you can get a tap & die set in that size but you would probably have to make the screws and that might not be easy. Have you checked to see if they are metric? Metric sizes were used on early cars more often than you'd expect. Virtually all ball bearings, for instance, were metric. Who made the starter/generators? If you can't make them, I'd consider running a 12-24 tap through the hole. The stress on a brush retaining spring has got to be very light and I suspect the depth of the thread is very short. At 20 TPI 1/4" is 5 turns.

I had another one of those days when I spent the entire day on what I would have guesses was a two-hour job, fitting the brass plates that will cover the seals on the ends of the pump. I started by taking .100 of the input hub. It was thicker than it needed to be and I'm trying to get as much room as I can between the pump and the magneto. Then I set the whole thing up in the mill to drill the holes - only to discover there wasn't enough clearance to tap them while the piece was secure in the rotary table. so, I took it all apart and set it up on the drill press. After that, it went pretty smoothly. Here's the small end... And the big end. Tomorrow morning I'm off to see the welder.

These will be plates to go on either end of the pump to cover the seal and provide a surface for the thrust nearing I will be putting there. The plates will be brass but I've found that turning something this thin (they are 1/8" thick) is easier if I do it between two other pieces. It largely eliminates the burr you'd get otherwise and it's much easier to use the micrometer to measure the diameter. Mounted on a stub arbor with the brass piece in the center. And turned to the finished diameter. If I had a working band say I'd have knocked the corners off first. It goes on the pump like this. I then made the cover for the other side.

They were probably rarely, if ever, seen. When the Dodge car appeared, what is now Israel was part of the Ottoman Empire. After WWI it was governed by Britain under a League of Nations mandate. How many Dodge cars might have been imported is an interesting question but the US Army, which used a lot of them in France, never had any units in the Middle East during the war so they wouldn't have been seen through that source. Israel didn't become an independent country until 1947 when Palestine was partitioned by the United Nations. I do think it is possible that it helped the sale of Dodge cars in urban areas of the US where Henry Fords overt anti-Semitism turned a lot of people off - not only Jews. I have read - and don't have the citation at hand - that the anti-Semetic campaign almost wiped out the sale of Ford cars in cities with significant Jewish populations and that the largest single Ford dealer sent in his papers and became a Dodge Brothers dealer. It was apparently also a Ford thing to distribute copies of the Dearborn Independent (Ford's newspaper and the spearhead of the anti-Semitic campaign) to dealers with instruction they were to be handed out to customers. Many dealers paid for them and destroyed them rather than offend their customers.

Good work... there is an old Russian proverb I like; "Tell a lie a hundred times and it becomes the truth." In my real work editing books on historical arms I run into this sort of thing all the time though I confess I hadn't thought to look into the Byron Carter story. The fact that he died long before the self-starter was introduced and of pneumonia, in bed at home, really puts the popular story out the window. But, it will continue to be repeated endlessly.