1912Staver

In the late teens era Ford paid his factory workers $5.00 / day for an 8 hour day. About 60 cents an hour. This was said to be about double what factory work generally paid , or about 30 cents an hour. By the early days of the Depression Ford tried to reduce wages from this figure and caused substantial push back from the work force. 10 cents an hour must have been a relatively low skilled wage. Greg

Unfortunately your Pope Toledo wheels are either correct hubs that have had much later metal Felloes fitted or non Pope wheels that the hubcaps happen to fit. But the metal felloes are early 1920's at the oldest and not in any way Pope { stopped production in 1909 }. Too bad , because they were probably the best of the pile going by the hubcap photo you posted earlier. Greg

On wood felloe wheels there is often a stamping on the felloe band stating size and sometimes the manufacturer . Metal felloe wheels without rims can be a bit harder to determine even basic information like rim size . But by the time metal felloe wheels came along { about 1923 -24} there were somewhat fewer makes on the market making it a bit easier to I.D. most wheels. If you have a rim in each diameter from 19 " up to 26" or 27" you can usually figure out the wheel diameters. Greg

There sure couldn't have been many 1933 PA's sold on the Canadian Prairie's . Unfortunately not really even enough left for a street rod . Greg

Buick 6, circa 1918. Greg

I expect that in some point in the future my project will have to go back home to the Mid West. The person before me brought it from Indiana to the Seattle WA. area { you can possibly look at this as a mistake } . And then I took it even further from it's home to British Columbia , Canada. {absolutely, no doubt a mistake }. They were a car that most likely saw very few sales outside the Mid West, and if any further parts survive they are most likely in the Mid West area. The other two survivors are also outside the Mid West today . But they are complete cars , and one in a museum { East Coast but from Kansas }, one locked up in a family collection { West Coast } . So I doubt the people involved are either looking for parts or having any parts made. The project needs someone with the patience and ability to attend swap meets and network with other Brass Era people in the part of the country where Stavers were originally sold and died. I barely can afford to travel to P.N.W. events. Travel to Hershey, Bakersfield , Chickasha OK. or any Mid West events on a regular basis is well beyond my budget. Greg

It's a relatively conventional car, but yes quite rare. As far as I know mine is the only incomplete Staver out there. I have looked into a few different engines over the years { as have some of the previous owners }but so I have not found one that is a good match. Most have cast in engine mounts that end up being much too wide for my sub -frame style chassis. The closest I have seen is a type B Wisconsin , similar to a Stutz type A but the F.W.D. truck version. Still a fairly rare and expensive engine. I have not yet found one that I could afford. Then it becomes the choice between spending a bunch of money on the wrong engine or investing in patterns and castings to complete the correct engine that I already have about 50% of. Still lots of things to do on the project before I truly need an engine . The hope is that over time either a reasonably priced Wisconsin turns up , or more Teetor Hartley parts turn up, or a suitable, different engine altogether shows up. Greg

20 + years ago when I first became involved with it the undertaking did not seem so unrealistic. A lot has changed over those years, none of it good for my disposable income. If nothing else the project has to this point been a very good learning process. But yes , still miles away from the finish line. It's been owned by a number of would be restorers since the late 1940's. But short of spending 3 or 4 multiples of the cars potential market value on having the missing parts recreated it's been too much for myself or any of the past owners . Parts have slowly accumulated for it over the decades , but it will outlive me as a project. As far as letting someone else finish it , that will perhaps happen some day. It isn't worth anything the way it is , and it gives me a reason to attend swap meets and pick through tons of old junk. I have a couple of newer cars that I can afford , but they are from the 1960's and 70's and a completely different thing. I just had this 40 + year itch to be involved with a medium sized Brass Car. A pile of parts is possibly better than looking at books and old car calendars. .Greg

So PLEASE , point me to your shed full of Teetor Hartley engine parts... PRETTY PLEASE !! But yes you are correct . It's just an excuse for my inability to pay $25,000 - $35, 000 or more for the engine I need. The owner in the never let someone drive your brass car thread places the number at $125,000 but that is a 6 , mine is only a 4. Just apply a dump truck full of $20,'s and any roadblock evaporates. You are correct. I am running out of excuses even faster than cash. I guess it's either golf or fishing in my future. Greg

Hunting for parts for decades . Even worse if they either don't exist , or if you never find them. Greg

I suspect they were history before I was old enough to take notice. Vancouver in the 1960's must have been an interesting time to be in the car business. A small scale city serving a prosperous, resource industry based economy. I only arrived in 1966 after spending my first decade in Winterpeg. So I was too young to appreciate much of what I saw in the 1960's - later 1970's. I just know there were lots of small - medium sized outfits selling non - big three products. Lots of interesting auto diversity. Too bad so few survived the ups and downs of our roller coaster Provincial Economy. Greg

Yes , pre -1910. They went out of production in 1909 as far as I know.

In North America many will expect a big discount for the right hand drive. Eventually someone has to take the time and expense of switching to left hand drive. It can be done of course but most won't want to get involved. You are best off looking at right hand drive country's . Your best bet might even be right at home in Australia. Gray market cars { trucks } usually sell at a considerable discount compared to the normal domestic version. The parts and service always becomes a price limiting hassle. I have owned a couple but it has never been a money making situation. Just a P.I.T.A. Greg

Parthenon Motors ? Or was a later outfit? It's the only one I can remember , but I was only a kid in the 1960's. Greg

The wood does not " look " that bad. Lower sills obviously are bad but still very intact. I imagine they probably saved at least 1/2 of what is in the photo, unless appearances are deceiving. Always hard to tell about wood from a photo.. Greg

A couple of the old books by Griff Borgeson provide some idea of the early years of Duesenberg . And early OHC engines. The twin cam engine book is pricy , but the Golden Age of American Racing is a lot more wallet friendly. Greg

Interesting cars , however I have never owned one. Any I have encountered seemed complex and unfortunately quite rusty. SM's look great but even more complex { and rusty around here }. Big fan of the Renault 4 cyl engines and transaxles but only because of their use in my Lotus Europa. Parts are very expensive, as most parts are aimed at Renault Alpine and Gordini owners. A group with far deeper pockets than you typical Europa owner. Still a remarkably light, high performance sports car powerplant. Greg

You have a greater tolerance than many of us . Sounds like a trial of biblical proportion....or Kafka.

Those rates are a real eye popper Stude. And I thought my rates were high. I sure hope that is offset with an otherwise reasonable cost of living.

That's a big move ! Best of luck with it all. At least the $ work in your advantage. I understand Upstate Michigan is a bit cold in the winter so no doubt the condo will get quite a bit of use. I spent my early years in Winnipeg Man. so I have a good idea of what Winter is all about.

But do you have relocation options ? { Apart from Florida} . Due to local geography options are a minimum of 3 or 4 hours away and unless quite remote indeed not all that much cheaper. Like I said before I have a pretty crappy house on a very small for the area , non conforming lot, so quite limited resale . All the disadvantages of the country with relatively few of the advantages. Zoning regulations , like yours changed after I bought. If anyone wanted to build a new house { 90 % of potential buyers } it is difficult and very costly to meet the septic regs. due to the small size of the property. We are grandfathered due to the age of the house. Plus the divorce is a down payment killer.

I don't mind living in a mostly Ag. area . It would just be nice to have a bit of land like most of my neighbors , but at today's price not going to happen. Only real problem was when all the dairy farms around me changed hands and were converted to Blueberry's . Apart from the much increased use of chemicals { all well water for miles around }, the Blueberry cannon's were a real intrusion in berry season. Like living in a 24 hour a day war zone. I am only about 500 Ft to the South of a large Berry farm. The cannon's sounded like they were in my back yard. Eventually the farmers realized after a couple of years the birds paid no attention to the cannon's and stopped using them. Also I am told the Propane bill was very high per acre. After about 5 years of serious noise peace was restored. I never complained but many did. Especially the Horse owners, several large and many small stables in my area.

Ed, click on the link. That's typical of my area .Not that long ago they were $350,000 - $400,000 and a remote posibility. Now they are roughly3 times a decent lifetime , after tax income. I would not care except my house was built 75 years ago by a gang of hung over farmers. You got me beat on taxes however. Mine are only about 300% in 20 years.

Absolutely, , they only run 2.5 - 4.5 Million as long as there isn't too much land, otherwise they get quite pricy. My X- BIL has done the Kitchen in several of them. https://bcpropertysource.ca/recip.html/1187793.search/listing.r2510759-1386-242-street-langley-v2z-1l2.93174415 Greg

That's why growing up in a second or third generation vintage car family can be a huge advantage. The necessary infrastructure needed for the hobby is already in place and accessible to the youthful person and hobby participation can happen while still young. The rest of us may out of necessity take a number of decades until we are even near the infrastructure starting point. In some cases we are quite old before we are at square one. It is a tall hill. As alsancie's diagram shows. Some of us run out of time, desire or ambition before we make it to the self - fulfillment level. Just too much of a hill if starting from 0. Greg