RARE CANADIAN VINTAGE TRUCK

[35&73]

Made in Canada, stayed in Canada  - Selling a 1935 Canadian built #214 of 460 produced (3 models for that year KC, KCL, HC total 460 - number of each model not determinable) 1st Series Dodge Brothers KC pickup complete with history and articles of provenance, likely the last surviving Canadian built truck of this era.  In final stages of restoration, suicide doors, manual transmission, 6 cylinder, have all parts to complete, all steel body, if you are interested or know anyone who is, please email.  Thanks 

Edited March 28, 2018 by 35&73 (see edit history)

[Guest]

No pictures, no price, no location?

[35&73]

I've put up pics, vehicle is just outside Halifax, NS Canada.  The truck was originally purchased in 1935 from a Sydney, NS Dodge dealer and remained in the Cape Breton Highlands of Nova Scotia.  It was last on the road in 1958 then sat in a building until 2012 as part of the original owner's estate.  He died in 1960 (coincidentally the same year I was born) and I purchased the truck in 2013.  There is a true trail of history connected to this truck, from the original owner's 1939 Nova Scotia chauffeur's license and vehicle permit which verifies the serial number to the Dodge Brothers of Canada - Windsor, ON owners manual and drivers handbook, all passed along to me.  The original windshield contained a Nova Scotia Dept. of Highways 1943 registration sticker exempting licensing until the end of 1944 due to the war.  I've since spoken to residents of the community who remember the truck from years ago and how it hauled telephone poles to installation sites. 

 

Restoration began soon after purchase.  Frame has been blasted and epoxy sealed and is solid.  New shackles and bushings, king pins, tie rod ends complete, installed brake linings on original shoes, new wheel cylinder kits, master cylinder kit, and brake lines were just the beginning.  Rear axle disassembled and all bearings were checked and new axle and pinion seal installed.  Original rims have been cleaned and painted, new tires and tubes.  All new steel box fabricated to original specs, cab still needs work but have cab frame wood and aftermarket cab body pieces from Plymouth Doctor.  New windshield frame with safety glass, running boards, reproduction rear fenders from CountryTraveler.  No interior seat, just the frame.  Also missing tail gate.  All original parts have been saved.  Misc other pieces include a wiper motor, extra tail light for right hand side, signal light switch assembly and the list goes on.

 

Complete original drive train, engine runs, original starter and generator, and original clutch.  69,000 original miles.

Asking price $30K US.

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by 35&73
Added info (see edit history)

[35&73]

Owner's manual Dodge Bros. (Canada) Limited, Windsor Ontario and drivers handbook, also have 1939 permit

[JACK M]

Nice truck.

The price might be reasonable for a finished rig.

[35&73]

Price is a start point/asking price, you wouldn't find another of these vehicles and that has to mean something

[dodgebrother]

Hi Greg,

 

Just noticed your post here.

Surprised you are selling.

I tried to PM you but wont go through.

 

Send me a PM.

 

Brian

Edited March 26, 2018 by dodgebrother (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

I hate to be negative about a rare truck however you seem to indicate that rarity and originality are the rationale behind your "steep" asking price. The rarity I wont dispute , 460 produced is definitely lowish production , but this is after all a Canadian commercial vehicle and production numbers in these sort of quantities are not that out of the ordinary.  I have a few myself . 1945 GMC 3 ton , 1946 Maple leaf 2 ton, late 1929 Ford AA sold as a cowl and chassis and locally bodied in Vancouver. etc.  The 1945 GMC in particular was produced in very small quantities however I have never considered that fact to materially increase its value. Even my  circa. 1960 Buckler MK 16, one of 2 known by the Buckler register or my 1912 Staver Chicago model 40, only known Model 40, only known 1912, one of 5 known Stavers, are to my knowledge made no more valuable by their relative rarity. In some ways the rarity actually works against them, parts are that much harder to source, information is very hard to find etc. Their value lies in what they are as vehicles, one a Brass era , medium price range, independent make, the other a specialist built, Canada Class competition vehicle/ vintage racer.

  To me the problem is that for a vehicle that you are saying is valuable because of its originality you are well on the way to obliterating that same originality. Pulling it apart, blasting , and black epoxy overall is certainly not a way to preserve originality. To modern standards it is probably not even correctly restored let alone original. Hard to see from my point of view where the justification for desirability, and hence the higher than average price comes from. 

  Sorry to be a bit harsh, but please have a look around at a few examples of what a very original ; and also what  a correctly restored, mid 1930's vehicle looks like and then have a look at what you have. 

 

Greg in Canada

Edited March 26, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[35&73]

Dear Greg in Canada, from another Greg in Canada:

Are all your posts that negative??, personal attacks on others while bragging about what you own?  

[auburnseeker]

What are the differences between the Canadian Version and the US version besides Vin and Paperwork?  Are there any real stand out features?    I'm not familiar with them,  but have casually pursued a few US Versions of this vintage Dodge truck.  They seem to run 20-30 in good running order that look respectable but not fully restored for the US versions.  

[35&73]

1935 1st Series have suicide doors for both Canadian and US, half way through the production year they changed to regular doors (2nd Series) for both Canada and US.  460 produced in Canada and about 25,000 in US for that production year.

[auburnseeker]

So are there other visual differences?  I know like the later Fargo and Dodge had different trim. 

[1912Staver]

18 hours ago, 35&73 said:

Dear Greg in Canada, from another Greg in Canada:

Are all your posts that negative??, personal attacks on others while bragging about what you own?  

I certainly wasn't intending a personal attack, just questioning the rationale behind your pricing. You stated rarity and originality as being the reason behind your price starting point. 

  I was simply  attempting to point out what I perceive as a misconception on your part that rarity will  has an substantial  influence on value. I mentioned my vehicles to illustrate that even very rare vehicles are often worth relatively modest sums. And secondly that many Canadian market commercial vehicles were produced in small numbers.

  Also I think perhaps you are using a slightly outdated view of originality. True your truck is unmodified, and therefore to original specification. It is however far from a vehicle that exhibits a high degree of "originality" . That is a vehicle that is largely untouched since it was assembled at the factory. 

In todays market it is usually the latter form of the word originality that is sought out by many collectors , and at times a premium paid.  That is why I suggested you acquaint yourself with a few vehicles that are generally recognised as being highly original. 

 As for the "bragging" exactly what claims did I make of my vehicles other than they exhibited rarity without a unusually high price tag ? 

Greg in Canada

Edited March 26, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[bobg1951chevy]

It's my thought, and possibly only my thought ...... but when I view a car for sale, I certainly look at the price.  If the price is reasonable, I may continue with the adventure of buying.

If the price makes no logical sense to me, I try to do one of two things.

1. I pass on  the illogical priced vehicle and MOVE ON.

2. I contact the owner of the illogically priced vehicle, via P.M OR EMAIL to determine if any resolution is possible for buyer and seller.

I like those two options and no one publically becomes offended.

[roysboystoys]

7 hours ago, bobg1951chevy said:

It's my thought, and possibly only my thought ...... but when I view a car for sale, I certainly look at the price.  If the price is reasonable, I may continue with the adventure of buying.

If the price makes no logical sense to me, I try to do one of two things.

1. I pass on  the illogical priced vehicle and MOVE ON.

2. I contact the owner of the illogically priced vehicle, via P.M OR EMAIL to determine if any resolution is possible for buyer and seller.

I like those two options and no one publically becomes offended.

 

Agree , I still maintain these cars for sale ads should be locked to comment. Discussions on them can be started in the general discussion section. 

I can't understand why someone wants to belittle a person publicly?

If you want to help , send a " Private" message.

[auburnseeker]

I don't know.  I think in the line of questioning I was pursuing it really benefits the vehicle when questions are asked about one that is so rare as to why it's going to stand out on a field of other US version trucks besides a vin tag that says made in Canada.  I like these trucks and have as I said followed a few.  This is a great site for education of vehicles and their history which I think is goal 1,  a for sale section is just a bonus that has also been educational in the past.   

So again I'm seeking education as to what makes them so special when compared to the US counterpart,  of which I believe one might even be for sale on this site now, that very likely might have found a new home in my garage if I didn't already have a Hudson big boy. 

People here are very civil compared to any other number of not quite so civil sites.   

[35&73]

100% agree with private messaging.  So many factors go into value and when it's all said and done the value of a vehicle is what someone is willing to pay.  I know this truck is not super rare but it is rare and it is even more rare in Canada.  I also believe there is a desirability in the Canadian classics market to purchase a vehicle that was manufactured in Canada, compared to similar American models.  

 

I did not pitch this truck as an "original" as in unrestored perfect condition like it rolled off the factory floor, I pitched the provenance and history more than anything.  To find an original vehicle needing no restoration and looking like it did when it rolled out of the factory would be unheard of and would not be in the $30K range.  These vehicles were work horses, people used them on farms and other businesses and after they drove them into the ground they scrapped them.   Most of the 1935 Dodge Brothers trucks for sale in the US have undergone restoration and are also not original, and the ones that haven't need to.  They have been chopped or hot-rodded or have undergone a restoration consisting of fibreglass body pieces instead of steel.   My intention was to put it back to as close to original (meaning original motor and drive train and all steel body) as best I can.

 

 

[JACK M]

3 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

 

People here are very civil compared to any other number of not quite so civil sites.   

 

Soooo true.

[1912Staver]

Once again I apologise if you viewed my comments as a personal attack, they were not intended as such . They were simply intended as a comment on how I perceived your asking price to be positioned in the market.

  You also use the term "survivor" several times in your description. That is a term that is generally understood to mean a vehicle that has seen little or no restoration in its life. It may be rough or pristine, the important part is it is relatively untouched over the years.

  I agree completely about your point of Canadian built vehicles being more desirable , but in my opinion this is only relevant to a Canadian buyer. I am given to believe most American buyers attach little if any increased desirability to Canadian built machines.  The odd Canadian built car is by specification a bit more interesting than its U.S. produced counterpart, teen's era McLaughlin -Buicks are often nicer in detail appointments than U.S. Buicks . Canadian Model T Ford touring's have all 4 doors functional Etc. But in general if anything Canadian versions are often somewhat "down market" from the U.S. versions, "Plodges", Canadian Pontiacs of the 1950's and 60's that are really Chevy under the skin, and others. Many of these Canadian vehicles don't really spark up much interest on either side of the border.

 And your experience may be substantially different on the East coast than here on the West, but from what I see the Canadian old car market is generally quite soft.  Quite a few Canadian old car owners ; possibly even yourself, seem to be trying to attract a U.S. based buyer and presumably a higher dollar return than they are finding at home in Canada. Canadians may well favor Canadian built cars, however they seem to be somewhat reluctant to pay a premium for the distinction.

 

Greg in Canada 

Edited March 26, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Guest]

Hmmmm?

On a site where every single aspect of a vintage vehicles is discussed, why in the world should anyone expect discussions of pricing to be off limits?

The only ones who seem offended buy this type of input are the ones who place clearly overpriced ads for sale. Naturally this will draw questions as to the reasoning behind a record asking price. There seems to be one or two that pop up here every month . With the plethora of info available through the members here, I believe a seller can gain a more realistic idea of his vehicle's true value. I have not seen one outrageously over priced vehicle bring its asking price. If I was selling, and off the mark on numbers, I would welcome any and all valid input.

Greg (in America)

[35&73]

I'm open to information and happy to check out any comparables anyone throws my way

[dodgebrother]

Well here is one for comparison.

This one is a 1935 Dodge Brothers 2nd series built in Detroit.

I have owned it for 28 years.

Some unique provenance to this one is that it was special ordered by the IRS in Fargo ND.

I did the full info package with the Chrysler Museum and got the build card plus other info.

One option listed on the build card was dual spare wheels.

I guess they wanted to have a set of winter tires with them if they had to go visit "clients" back in the hills and it was muddy.

Somewhere along the line it got painted with a paintbrush in grey but hey that just adds to the provenance.

Apparently the farmer who owned it did this to go court his future wife back in the day.

I guess it worked.

 

I wouldn't sell mine for any less than 30K US and it is a survivor, licensed and driven.

 

So I think Greg's truck has a fair asking price as some people think the 1st series with suicide doors are more desirable.

 

I have a friend in TN who has a 35 2nd series beautifully restored and correct and has turned down 50K USD for it.

So pricing of these vehicles anywhere it seems is within those scales of economics.

 

There are and have been over the years several on the net and in various publications throughout the US between 15K and 50K.

The only CDN 35 1st series I know of is Greg's (CDN).

 

The attached photo is from a few years ago with incorrect wheels and caps.

It now has the original rad cap and wheels and caps and the spare covers back on it.

As soon as winter comes to an end here I will roll it out of the barn and go for a spring drive.

 

Good Luck on the sale of your Truck Greg...someone will step up...!

 

PS: US treasury guy looks like a reasonable sort and even has a camera to take some family photos during his "client" visits.

      The additional photo has one of my 1946 Dodge flat deck CDN built and my 1935 Chevrolet dump truck CDN built.

 

Not sure if all this was relevant to the original post but I like trucks and see their value either Detroit or Windsor Built.

Edited March 26, 2018 by dodgebrother (see edit history)

[35&73]

That was a breath of fresh air lol  beautiful trucks Brian, thanks for your post 

[1912Staver]

Those are a great trio of trucks ! Your grey and black IRS truck is definitely a "survivor".  Is that your shop building ? It appears to be perfect for a vintage truck fleet.

 

[dodgebrother]

Thanks Greg.

[dodgebrother]

Thanks 1912Staver......That is one of my shops and it is getting a bit crowded.

[auburnseeker]

1 hour ago, dodgebrother said:

Thanks 1912Staver......That is one of my shops and it is getting a bit crowded.

I think I solved that problem.  Just keep building more buildings,  if you build them very big and pretty nice,  then try to finish them off inside and out,  you will never have enough money to buy any cars or trucks to put in them.  Though the equipment to build them is starting to take over. 

[dodgebrother]

Auburnseeker I can appreciate your logic.

I am up to four locations with 3 shops stuffed and one barn filling up and many trucks and cars outside sitting like ducks in a row not to mention oil & gas signs and pumps and so on filling up all available other space.

It is a controlled habit and a therapeutic pastime.

As they say in life you should seek all you desire as moderation is for monks.

I am promising myself one day to build one of those big new buildings you speak of so that I can consolidate to one location.

I am told by my in house "accountant-ess" that maybe I can purge a bit when this happens.

I say don't be sore cause I would like to buy more.

 

So that is my story and I am sticking to it.............................

 

[auburnseeker]

At the rate prices are going you might need to purge a lot to build something decent.  I have 100G in this as you see it.  No electric no floor no insulation just the shell and a stack of windows I just bought to put in. They were just shy of 10G.  Still have to buy doors.  That was getting a very good deal on the labor from a friend and doing a lot of the excavating and clearing work myself.  That doesn't include the cost of the equipment I bought to do the work with which would tack another 50G on to the price,  but they have other uses and could always be sold once it's done,  though likely never will.  5 G in gravel alone. 

Over 3 G in Plans, permits etc. 

See how that adds up so quick. 

Of course the size has a lot to do with it at 60 by 72. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[bobg1951chevy]

Hey Mr Auburn, can my wife and I  and our two dogs move in when you finish ?  It's gonna be a nice place !

 

[auburnseeker]

I'm probably atleast 100G from finishing.  Bring your check and I'll sign you right up.   That's as long as you don't mind sleeping with the cars. 

[dodgebrother]

Nice looking building.

So with your breaks and deals it will be about $62.00 a ft2?

That is not bad in todays building market.

Now if you did build that mez with a suite and rented that out to Mr. bobg you would have debt service income to add in more extras.

 

Good luck with the build and post photos of the grand opening...!

[auburnseeker]

That will be doing most of the rest of the work myself and probably still underestimated like I did to get to this point. 

[1912Staver]

I will be starting on one in a couple of months, but quite a bit smaller at 30 x 50.  I sure hope it doesn't end up being 50 G's. I plan on doing 99% of it myself , and will keep it strictly no frills. Also my Pacific N.W. climate is a lot milder than where you are, so a bit cheaper for lower loading trusses , a little less r value insulation. And I am not going nearly as high as yours.

  As funds permit I plan on a similar size but extremely basic dedicated storage building. Just a basic shell. No insulation , no heat, no windows. Just one rollup door and one man door. 

Greg

Edited March 28, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)