farrellg

1931 Plymouth 4 Cyl water pump

Recommended Posts

Good news, the 1931 engine fired up in the test stand and sounds great. I have one issue I am not sure how address. The water pump is leaking from a small brass fitting on top. I am not sure what this is. First thought it was a grease fitting. Doesn't leak while running, only at when off. Can some tell me what this is and how I can fix the leak?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pictures would help but would that be your grease fitting, if so is it coming out of the fitting or around the threads?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe this to be the grease or oil fitting. What I don't know is this just indicate that there is not enough oil/grease in the pump or a bigger problem? Also, my instruction book calls for engine oil in this fitting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I believe this to be the grease or oil fitting. What I don't know is this just indicate that there is not enough oil/grease in the pump or a bigger problem? Also, my instruction book calls for engine oil in this fitting.

Im sorry, I called it a grease fitting because 9 out of ten times people remove these oil fitting and in its place put a grease fitting, that is your original oiler which is rare, if waters coming out of the ball than its a possability that the ball is rusted badly, push down on the ball in the center, there should be a spring back, if there is not than the assy has gone bad and would have to be replaced, if it does come back try and spin the ball and see if its free, may be rusty and pitted badly so it wont seal in which case you would have to replace.

Looks like its coming out around the threads in the picture, have you tried teflon or the brush sealer ( which I prefer )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I pulled it out today, these are just press fit. Spring is still there but must be rusted. I was able to get it much better with some emery cloth. May have been peened a bit on top. But I am sure it is shot. Question, since this is for oil, should water even be behind it? Is this a sign of another seal or packing leaking?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes George, you are correct again, I forgot ( once again ) that they were a pressed fit instead of being threaded. Yes also in that it is an oil fitting as your manual states, it is ( prob. obvious ) to prvide the shaft with lubrication and there should not be any water behind it, there was a post here not long by Mcdawg ( maybe I spelled that wrong ) he gave some info on rebuilding his DA water pump, good thread.

I know your pump is a Plymouth 4 cyl but same sort of pump, he had some good pictures if memory serves me, also might want to try here, good group of early Plymouth guys that are just itchin to help.............28Q29U Plymouth Forum - Index..........

BTW the original oilers I believe are still avail, will have to find that info though if you would like it

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yea, if you can find where, would be greatly appreciated.

Will look and see what I can come up with, maybe someone here will beat me too it though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what is the model of your plymouth ??       should say on side of block     it is either a 30U or a PA      the large nut you speak of is packing nut and only has to be tightened      there is packing material      which has to be serviced      see picture of PA motor and my car

plymouth PA 1.jpg

plymouth show.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good Day farrellg, I'm having the exact same problem with my 29 Dodge water pump bushing oiler that you sought advice for in June 2012 for your 31 Plymouth (The bushing oiler on top of the water pump is leaking cooling system fluid).  Can you share any information on how you may have solved the problem (short of rebuilding the water pump)?  Thanks, pseibert.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It may just be that you have the wrong type of bush. My Dodge 8 had a brass bush with a hole in it to get the oil onto the shaft. There is nothing to stop water coming through that hole and out the oiler hole. Mine, and perhaps yours, should have an Oilite bush with NO hole in it. Also, there should be a carbon washer under the impeller, between the impeller and the body of the pump and the end float of the pump shaft should be fairly small; I can't remember the number or where I found it, but I think it was only a few thou', maybe 0.005".

 

The problem with this theory with regard to your car is that 1929 is right about when the Oilite bush was developed and first used by Chrysler. I don't know when they first put it into service, so what I say here might be rubbish with reference to your car!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all for the responses; so glad I found the ACAA forum!  The owner's manual for my 29 Dodge (The model is "DA six") provides that the "water pump bushing oiler" should be lubricated with engine oil every 2000 miles.  It goes on to state that besides protecting the surface of the bushings, the oil prevents coolant from leaking out of the oil holes.  I'm not sure I'm interpreting that correctly, but I think it means that if the oil bushing reservoir is properly filled with oil, coolant should not leak out of the oil fitting.  Anyway, I removed the fitting, filled the reservoir with about a half teaspoon of oil (that's all it would take), and replaced the fitting.   The fitting is not threaded; it's just a push-in plug (which I find odd, and I guess means the fitting is not subject to the normal pressure of the cooling system).  So far it's not leaking but I haven't run the engine yet.  It was previously leaking with the engine running or not running.  I've attached two photos of the fitting in place.  Thanks!

IMG_6953 (1280x853).jpg

IMG_6955 (1280x853).jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that fitting is an aftermarket thing. My 1930 Dodge Brothers 8 (DC) has a flip up top you just put oil under.

 

Again, if water is coming out, I think you have a hole in the bush, which should not be there. Water ordinarily cannot get through a sintered bronze bush filled with oil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:05 PM, nearchoclatetown said:

PSeibert,  as this thread is many years old contact George at Romar Dodge parts. I don't think he comes on here much anymore.  They have a website. 

 

Hopefully it's a success at Romars for him. I miss seeing him around on the boards, very knowledgeable and helpful in regards to trucks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it is not supposed to be a sintered bronze bush, but brass with a hole is correct, maybe that fitting should be a grease cup?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Spinneyhill, a grease cup or fitting would certainly be easier to deal with.  The owner's manual describes how oil placed into the water pump bushing oiler is supposed to seep through porous bronze bearings and lubricate the shaft, so it looks like the design is for oil lubrication.  Regarding the leak, hopefully it's either that the fitting wasn't in tightly (it wasn't) or that the bushing hadn't been oiled for so long that it had essentially dried out.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, pseibert said:

 Regarding the leak, hopefully it's either that the fitting wasn't in tightly (it wasn't) or that the bushing hadn't been oiled for so long that it had essentially dried out.   

.

Possible but very unlikely. There is very little air around the bush for the volatiles in the oil to evaporate into. It is more likely some unknowing person has put in a brass bush with a hole in it to get lubricant to the shaft. Mine was exactly like that and leaked water there. There should be no hole in the bush. It should have a flip up cap to open and fill with oil from time to time. The reservoir around the bush is a chamber that goes right around the bush. Sometimes, as in generators, it may also have a felt wick in it.

 

Notice the front bush in your pump should be the same, with just a hole in the casting into which you put oil.

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

This the 1930 Dodge Brothers 8 DC version. The little flip up top is arrowed. The front bush is oiled through a hole arrowed under the pulley.

image.thumb.png.168ef8842c422ffe890bd44c891801a5.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a little bit of newbie humor, I had no idea where the front fitting was until I looked at your photo and went out to find mine under the hub between the fan and pulley.  Well, believe it or not, it's the same fitting (photo attached).  A concern with this one is if it leaks or otherwise needs to be serviced,  it's not easy access like the back fitting.  Anyway, I now know it's there and will be paying attention to both of the fittings.   

IMG_6959 (1280x853).jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now