Vendors good and bad

[Steve29]

The interesting discussion on the ?Unethical Auction Company? confirms what most of us know about auctions and the auction companies that run them. Integrity is not part of their business model. The issue of getting what you pay for and expect from vendors is a big topic for most of us and I would like to see it discussed more, with names for both the good and the bad ones. Most of my dealer experiences have been good; however some have been a total complete rip-off. I think we should not be reluctant to name names both good and bad. People seem too polite sometimes to name names, but I think we should. One of the forum discussions steered me away from a Chrysler parts vendor I was going to use to another one who I was totally satisfied with. I would like to see a forum where we can discuss and rate our experiences with the various dealers and parts restorers we use. It would be great to be able to look up a service and find peoples comments on various dealers they have used. What a great resource it could be.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Steve,

(Clear from the start: These are "my personal" comments, "not the AACA's")

To date, the AACA Forum will not be the venue for airing out complaints between Vendors & Customers. The reason is quite simple: Our club could stand to be included in any legal action instituted by one party, or, the other.

Legal action could be with a "valued" club sponsor that provides financial backing to this forum, or, a "miriad of vendors...(Hershey alone has about 9-10,000 vendors)".

Sitting here, I am thinking of a scenario: Suppose 500 people have a complaint about any one of 9-10,000 Hershey vendors. All of the complaints were aired-out on the AACA Forum. Law suits are filed. The way things are today, the AACA would be dragged into the proceedings as they provided the media for nasty posts.

Again, the aforementioned is my "personal opinion".

This AACA Forum is provided as a service to hobbyists, not a vehicle, or, media for complaints/compliments.

My thoughts are that you could create a Website specifically dedicated to "Old Car Hobbyist" vendor satisfaction and rate them.

At this point, I would give the AACA Management a chance to respond.

Regards,

PJH

[Dave@Moon]

If there is a way to adequately address this problem, it would be as an inverse to an airing of dirty laundry.

There was a thread years ago in the Buick Forum which, for a time, evolved into a listing by people of their favorite vendors. Titled "BuickFarm or Aftermarket Parts?", it was used by posters to applaud vendors who went above and beyond the level of service that was expected.

I suggest we simply validate exceptional service we recieve from vendors we're happy with in a specific thread, perhaps a "sticky" thread pinned to the top of a forum. If it turns out that vendor "A" and vendor "B" compete for a given niche in this business, and there are a half-dozen or so endorsements for "B" and none for "A", the buyer can draw his own conclusions.

[Guest BJM]

Time and time again posts show up with a complaint about a vendor that is deleted almost instantaneously. Supposedly because of the lawsuit argument. More to the point, it is because a lot of these vendors support the AACA and the old car hobby and that support might be pulled.

The BCA has such a vendor. A long time advertiser in the Bugle club magazine and frequent attendee of Buick events - that has provided horrible service to many Buick owners over the years. Yet, there is no mention of removing them from the Bugle. Heaven forbid. The fact is it won't even be discussed on the BCA forum or at any Buick get together. The Board of Directors won't touch it.

Lawsuits? Has it ever been done or is it just speculation? I think it's an excuse to get out of possible losing the support of some deep pocketed sponsor.

It's a relationship though that goes both ways. If a vendor wants to remain viable in today's marketplace, they need to support organizations like A.A.C.A and it's members. If they go away because of too many bad service experiences with the members, then why would we want their monetary support anyway? We need them, they need us.

Positively, we can leave good comments about businesses that provide what they say they will. This will help those businesses. Also, consider that being an old car hobby vendor is not a static issue- a company can provide great service and develop a great reputation only to be sold to an individual that only sees $$$ and service and results go way down. At that point, we need to know about it. Otherwise, it could take years before the old car hobby community catches on, at which point thousands of dollars are lost.

The bottom line is this is an expensive hobby, usually with deadlines. For someone like me who is not wealthy and must watch every penny spent on this insane hobby choice, knowing who to trust and turn to is of great service to me. Therefore, both positive and negative posts (for me) would be welcome.

But the political reality, not the possible legal reality, is the reason it will never be allowed. It's the hush-hush reality that never gets discussed by marque clubs or the A.A.C.A. Who knows, maybe some of the major vendors provide hust money and perks to A.A.C.A. officers under the table, just like politicians and others who serve the public.

[Restorer32]

Wow, that's a lot of unsubstantiated accusations! I wonder how many vendors actually support AACA other than thru the purchase of advertisement? Is there any evidence anywhere that any officer or board member of AACA has benefited monetarily from AACA's association with a particular vendor?

[TG57Roadmaster]

OUCH! Sounds like someone's been watching too many Oliver Stone Conspiracy Theory Movies. To imply in print that officers of any club are motivated by "hush money" is going a little too far. We freely elect our boards of directors to provide, well, <span style="font-style: italic">direction</span>, and they spend a lot of time and travel (usually on their own nickel) to make decisions based on their own experiences.

None of us always agree with those decisions and/or the direction in which a club goes, but like any elected body, we can always

"throw the bums out".

TG

[R W Burgess]

Jake, I can see how one would not want to be burned by using a vendor with less that perfect credentials.

I'd suggest that you post "Who would you go to?" type questions concerning getting work done, to see what the response will be.

On the other hand, if there are bad experiences involved with a vendor, I'd suggest that "private messages" and/or "e-mails" between you folks would keep the AACA out of the "thick" of it.

As has been said many times before, dirty laundry will not be allowed "air time" on the AACA Forums.

Wayne

[1937hd45]

This is all BS in my opinion, setting up a rating system for vendors will have little value. If you look at the eBay Feedback system I've found that the bitching and moaning comes from $10.00 item sales, while items selling for hundreds of dollars get a "Thanks item arrived in good condition". There is no sliding scale for the value of an item. Someones Business could be killed over an unfair feedback if it was setup here.

[SolidAxle]

I am a part time court paid Arbitrator for automotive related disputes and I can assure you that censoring of complaints, disputes, or opinions regarding a vendor's product or workmanship does not necessarily lessen or prevent the AACA from being pulled into a lawsuit. It may in fact, increase the liability if it pertains to a known safety issue involving a vendor.

Here are the weaknesses in the argument:

1.) The AACA has stated that it does not have sufficient forum manpower to ensure that all posts are in conformance with the rule regarding no complaints. In reality, the rule is randomly enforced. Therefore posts have been entered and are currently active that do in fact aire negative experiences and complaints with vendor's services and products.

2.) The AACA does not apply this rule to positive comments or compliments (contrary to Peter's posting). Thus a false sense of security can be derived from an inquiry on a given vendors product or service by a poster.

3.) Connecting posting complaint censorship with vendor support is dangerous at best. The implication is that this rule is less about servicing the membership and more about money.

4.) Providing a forum for the sharing of knowledge and experiences is a valid part of servicing the hobbiest, or more specifically servicing the AACA membership. To that end, allowing only one side of the story, can have detrimental effects.

Lastly, the best defense against liability would be for a stronger supporting vendor contract which holds AACA harmless and more notification on the forum regarding opinion.

This issue is not unique to AACA, it is sucessfully dealt with everyday by radio and TV talk shows, print media, as well as other web medium. The position that that is just the way it is, take your problem or complaint off line or to another web site can also be a dangerous solution longterm. Bettering the system that the membership, in part, pays for is a much more progressive, proactive approach in my opinion.

Please don't get me wrong, I am a strong supporter of AACA and the old car hobby. I just believe that on this issue either the real reason is not being stated or the AACA has received some poor advice.

[Guest BJM]

Of course there is usually no way to prove that a politician is on the take, and i am not suggesting that every elected officer of all these clubs is either.

I do see quite a few posts asking who to turn to for a particular service or item, and those are in essence "good" vendor comments.

ebay can not be used as a reference, IMO. Too many people are afraid of retaliatory negative feedback and grudgingly leave positive feedback, even if unsatisfied.

I do agree that to add a disclaimer would take care of 99.9% of the issue. before you can post, and be a member you would have to electronically agree that "the opinions are those of (you) and not necessarily the opinions of the A.A.C.A." I hear that same style warning before any talk show on the radio.

Other forums have vendor and services comment section, including "Classical Pontiac" website. I believe they are still in business and doing fine.

It does sound like a conspiracy but there are major players in all organizations that are well connected and have influence over these decisions. This group (AACA) is not a democracy, trust me. I don't like negative posts about vendors, I wish everyone treated everyone by the Golden Rule, personally. I believe when a person has been treated poorly by a vendor they tend to over exaggerate the experience, really bashing the company. So I see that side of it.

No clear answer here. You can go with the status quo, I just believe it protects bad companies to some degree.