Restoration or reproduction of diecast script-Advice needed

[Terry Bond]

An important piece of the restoration of our MG is the dealer tag that was applied on the rear of the car when sold new. I know it's not "factory" but for sake of the car's history, we are going to replace that emblem. I have an original but it is a fragile die case script spelling out the dealers name. It shows its age and needs to either be reproduced or restored. So, to the forum I go for advice -

If I restore the emblem, to whom should I entrust it? It would need typical pot metal treatment to smooth out some pits and blemishes, then appropriate replating. The dealership is long gone so finding another would be near impossible unless I got lucky in some old junk yard, but chances are the piece would need the same attention mine does.

If I reproduce the emblem, where should I go? The options seems to be recast it in bronze and plate it, or possibly even a stainless casting that could be polished? Is it possible to have someone laser cut a duplicate from a thicker piece of steel or something that could be chromed? Anyone know of a place that would do that for me?

Any help, advice, or recommendations would be appreciated.

Terry

[Friartuck]

Terry, how about posting a photo of this dealer emblem and that way we can provide some better advice upon seeing it. There are a number of alternatives. Chris

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, Terry...hope all is well.

How about "Verdone's Custom Stainless Casting" (I pasted his info from his web site below).

Jere Verdone has a booth at the Annual Meeting Trade Show and gives a seminar/presentation, too.

He and Marge are located in Nemanstown, PA (about 18 miles from where I live), or, about 35 miles East of Hershey.

He reproduces door handles, cranks, etc.

Regards,

Peter J... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

____________________________________________

SERVING THE ANTIQUE AUTO HOBBY

THROUGH INNOVATIVE & IMAGINATIVE

CUSTOM STAINLESS STEEL CASTING

Since 1970, we are a small operation casting small, mostly pre 1945, non-precision parts for antique cars..

We make replications, not duplication. We take your old worn or broken piece and replicate it in stainless steel. We provide the part fully polished, as required, but we do no machine work. While some holes can and are cast in the pieces, drilling and tapping, etc. are the responsibility of the buyer.

We have thousands of patterns for all different makes and models. Give us a call to see if we have a pattern of the part you need. If not we would need an old original to work from.

Our aim is to provide mostly unavailable parts to individual car owners at the lowest cost to the purchaser. As such, we do not knowingly sell to jobbers who would step on our prices at the expense of the individual antique car owner.

There is never a "set-up" fee or so called "tooling" fee. Cost of a cast stainless part is comparable to having an old part plated.

NO CREDIT CARDS ACCEPTED.

HOW TO CONTACT US:

Jere & Marge Verdone

31 Stricklerstown Loop Rd

Newmanstown PA 17073

PHONE 717 949-3341 FAX 717 949-2782

E-MAIL verdones@evenlink.com

[Gene__C]

I am new to the forum, but not to problems with restorations. Right now I am looking for someone to do lost wax process die casating for all of the inside door handles, window roller handles, escutcheons, and other pot metal parts for my 1927 Oldsmobile Landau.

I have talked to various people but haven't decided on the one yet. Verdone's is a candidate, but when I talked with him in Chickashea, OK I wasn't happy with the discussion on the way they finish out the spline interiors of the handles. As I understood his products he sells the handles finished on the outside,but the buyer has to clean up the grooves in the splines. The other item that I wasn't sure about is that he only works in stainless steel. My handles were nickel plated pot metal, so I would like to have a base metal that will nickel plate.

There are lots of people doing the lost wax process, but mostly sculptures or jewlery.

Any recommendations or clarifications on my project are welcomed.

<img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Gene

[Dave7]

Terry, I am nearly finished restoring my 28 Chev tourer. I have reproduced about 10 of the little brass plates that have the Fisher emblem and the words "Body by Fisher". These are about 1 1/2" by 1". The process I used is often used for etching electronic circuit boards. It took a few tries to master it but it costs basically nothing.

I created a black and white negative of the picture on the computer and printed it on the waxy paper that sticky labels come on using a laser printer. The brass plate is polished nicely and then using a hot iron the picture is transfered onto the brass. The laser ink melts and sticks to the brass rather than the paper. I soaked the plate in water to loosen the paper and remove it. The picture can be touched up using a special pen for the purpose or even paint. The back of the plate is then also masked (? spray paint).

The plate is then etched in warm Ferric Chloride until enough of the brass is etched away.

The Ferric Chloride and the pen are available in electronic shops.

Good luck

[Restorer32]

Our experience with stainless castings has not been good. Stainless doesn't "flow" like bronze. We tried having several parts cast in stainless at considerable expense and ended up having them done over in bronze. Stainless is also very time consuming to polish from the "as cast" state. Not sure how you would clean up internal splines. Most of the detail disappeared with the stainless castings. We are also looking for someone to do lost wax for several parts for a '26 Kissel we have in the shop currently. We have bronze sand castings done on a regular basis but not sure how door handles and the like would turn out.

[Gene__C]

Restorer32,

Thanks for the input. You seem to have the same experience as I did with the stainless steel approach.

I have contacted a couple of vendors who may be able to do the pieces in brass. If I have any luck I will forward the contact information to you.

I did meet a vendor at the pre-war swap meet in Oklahoma last year who said he could do the parts in brass, but can't locate him now. He was going to take some time off to relax. I believe that he was from Arizona, but internet searches don't seem to turn him up.

If you have any luck finding a vendor, I would appreciate a referral.

Gene

[Friartuck]

ALL:

A vendor that was referred to me for lost wax bronze castings. This is an art type casting house, but the owner, Chris Piazza is a car collector who will take on car projects. I'm about to send out some simple peices to them myself.

The Pour House, 2065 E 37th Street, Vernon, CA 90058 Contact Person: Chris Piazza, 213-235-1981

Services: Fabrication, Mold Making, Patination, Welding.

Casting unique pieces from non-traditional materials.

Processes: Ceramic Shell, Metals: Bronze, Aluminum

Dave7: Interested in knowing more about the label/waxy paper you used in the brass plate process. I've used Technik's Press-n-peel film ( web page ) to transfer the artwork with limited success. Also, what temp and supplier for the Ferric Cloride?

Chris

[Gene__C]

I have talked with Mr. Verdone, Verdone's Custom Stainless Steel Castings, and he indicates that he has some of the parts that I need and has the patterns to make some of the others. All of his work is in stainless steel. He was very helpful with providing information about the parts and their availability. I am interested in the quality of his work, the detail that can be expected and how much finish work he does on the parts. My door handles have ribbed interface that must go onto the matching ribbed shaft of the door mechanism.

One restorer that I have talked with said that the grooves were very difficult to clean out if the part is stainless steel. Any comments?

These parts are pretty pricy $$$ and I want to be sure they will work for my needs.

Gene

[Coley]

I have delt with stainless steel, investment casting, shops over the years.

A good shop will bead blast the internal splines, before they send them out to you.

And they would have to fit a dummy shaft well, before they would pass inspection.

It would be up to you to cut the slots in the back of the handles, if they are held

on with "C" clips as most GMs are.

Investment foundry prices are usually such that they won't do small jobs.

If you have the talent and the time to make your own wax patterns, you can save a bundle.

If you deal with an "ART" studio, hang onto your hats when the bill arrives.

Your handles can be cast from a zinc alloy and the splines will be as good as the outside of the handle. BUT...the cost of the tooling for the insert, that makes the splines in the handle, are

a little high.

The insert has to be made of machined teflon and be oversized enough to take care of the shrinkage

of the cast metal. Usually this is a CNC machine job and not many shops like to machine teflon. It is not because it is hard, but telfon is not as solid as metal, when it comes to machining it.

Plastic molds can be made for most any part that you desire a wax pattern for.

You do Not need $$$$$$ steel die molds.

I made thousands of parts with urethane molds and never wore one out.

We used to cast things like distributor housings, generator end frames, taillight stands, hood ornaments, even things as thin as taillamp housings, using the lost wax method. I even made the gear shift boot tooling for the Ford Motor Co. back in the 90s.

But, on 9/14/01 my shop burned to the ground and I lost a 25 year casting business.

I just turned 64 last month and don't really want to go through the replacing all of all that

equipment to start over.

If someone wanted to learn how to make their own molds etc., I would be glad to advise them on sources of the materials and the proceedures.

As far as I could find out, (by asking the Investment Casting Institute of texas), I was the only shop investment casting zinc alloys, in the country.

It is challenging and interesting (and dirty at times) work that is really needed.

I started out because a die-cast shop just laughed at me, when I asked how much for a die to make 1933 radiator caps.

Let me know if I can help.

[Terry Bond]

I'd like to know more about this - if there is a way to make a simple mold in wax and then do a brass duplicate it would be great. I don't mind spending evenings in front of the TV with small files to dress it up. I could then get it chrome plated. My good orig isn't too bad really, just showing its age.

I'll try to get a picture posted.

Thanks,

Terry

[Restorer32]

Bringing this thread back up with an update. We are in need of interior door handles and window winders for a 1926 Kissel. We have one original of each for a pattern. The best estimate we have been able to get to have these reproduced by the lost wax method in bronze was $500 each for the patterns, then $15 or so for each cast part. Tough to justify $1000-1250 for door handles unless, of course, a demand suddenly developed for 1926 Kissel Brougham interior handles and winders. In that case we'd be in on the ground floor and could make a killing.

[mrpushbutton]

when pouring stainless steel into a lost wax mold you have to pour the molten metal into the mold then get the mold into a vacuum furnace as fast as possible to get the proper flow into the mold.