R134A

[Jay Wolf]

Is there a deduction for an older car converted to R134A

Since R12 is getting almost impossible to get?

[Dr Morbius]

There better not be. I'm sick of judges taking points off especially for radial tires. They came out in 1948 so it's possible for example to have them on a 1954 Packard - yet they take points off , even though you want to protect your family with better tires!!! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

..........................Steve

[Shop Rat]

The rules are very clear. If the vehicle did not come from the factory with radials, or radials were not a factory option for that vehicle, then points will be deducted for incorrect tires multiplied by how many incorrect tires there are. Safety is not the issue with show cars as far as type of tire. Correctness is. There are safety items, ie. turn signals and seatbelts, that have been approved. Radial tires have not been approved as a safety item.

The rules also state that if the correct tire is not available from any source the next closest tire will be accepted. But it must be a bias ply tire if that is what the car should have.

For local driving with your family you can put radials on. All you have to do is put the correct tires back on when you show it.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Jay, the short answer is that no one will know. Many just remove the adapter after filling. If the adapter is left on, I am not sure anyone would know the difference. It is something that has not been discussed in the judging committee since I have been here and is not in our judging manual either.

Steve, Susan answered you rather well but if you have read previous threads about radials versus bias-ply you will find that some of the tire companies disagree whether their is any inherent safety advantage in switching to radials. I have done this on one of my cars and am willing to live with any point deduction. The criteria for judging has been made in the best interest of our hobby and not made lightly.

[novaman]

The biggest difference between radial and bias tires is ride and handling. The radial tires have a softer sidewall and therefore give more when you hit bumps in the road, for a softer ride. Radials due to design don't follow grooves as easy.

Would you try to drive a Model T out on the interstate at 65+ MPH? Probably not. You'd respect it's limitations and drive acorrdingly. Bias tires weren't meant for 65+ MPH contant. Both radials and bias tires will get you safely from point A to point B if you respect the tires and drive according to your equipment.

In 2001 I went to NY for the founders tour and had one radial tire blow out the sidewall and two radial trailer tires had belts seperate. I ended up towing the trailer from NY/PA with one dry rotted bias tire and putting onther dry rotted one on in mid-VA and got home. (That is not something I would recommend most people try.)

Ran out of time on my lunch hour to finish. My boss was walking in the door so I had to post it quickly. What I didn't get a chance to add was the fact that the trip home was on a Sunday, so chances of getting a trailer tire was going to be slim.

[Jay Wolf]

Most of the kits now available you remove the stock Schrader valve and the valve is in the adapter, It allows fo much faster filling so removal of the adapter is not possible without discarging. Also Federal law requires a sticker under the hood noting the conversion. You could remove the blue dust cover that would be about it.

[Guest John W. Harvey]

Geeeez........... and we were worried about the judges........ we should be worried about the Feds looking for the stickers! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Let's see........ the judges wear the blue shirts, the national awards team wear the yellow......... what color will the Feds be wearing???? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

John <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Shop Rat]

Black with flak jackets. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

[Guest Randy Berger]

Well, you know it won't be the INS - they never leave their building. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Joe Block]

With FEDERAL Marschal on the Back

[Jim Cannon]

R-12 is not really that hard to find, if you take some time to look for it. And not that expensive any more because the demand is WAY down from when the R-134a first came out. There are few cars on the road today that need/want R-12, so the demand is just not there. I can buy all I want for about $8-10 a pound. Full charge uses about 4 pounds. Not too bad. R-12 really does cool better than the R-134a on my car ('63 Riviera). That has not been the case for other guys with other cars; they say the new stuff works OK for them.

[Guest 70 Electra]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">R-12 is not really that hard to find, if you take some time to look for it. And not that expensive any more because the demand is WAY down from when the R-134a first came out. There are few cars on the road today that need/want R-12, so the demand is just not there. I can buy all I want for about $8-10 a pound. Full charge uses about 4 pounds. Not too bad. R-12 really does cool better than the R-134a on my car ('63 Riviera). That has not been the case for other guys with other cars; they say the new stuff works OK for them. </div></div>

Jim,

I agree with you completely. The cost differential for the refrigerent alone, between R12 and 134a is relatively low. Even at the high rate of $25 per lb for R12, the cost penalty is over $5/lb 134a is only about $80. Compared to the cost of repairing and restoring an AC system, this is minimal...just a little more than the cost of a tank of gas! For my money, I would rather have OE performance and appearance of the R12.