Mark Shaw Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Barry, Please tell me where you are and I will give you the name & number of a distributor. You can email me directly at durcodude@comcast.netMark ShawVancouver, Wa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 How do you know Carotek?Mark ShawVancouver, Wa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barry, Please tell me where you are and I will give you the name & number of a distributor. You can email me directly at durcodude@comcast.netMark ShawVancouver, Wa. </div></div>My shop is in Redford, MI just outside Detroit.Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Barry,The company I work for uses the valves and actuators from the company that Mark Shaw posted earlier. I can find out tomorrow whom the rep is and get it to you if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 Thanks Tom, I'd appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Tom, I work for Flowserve.Mark ShawVancouver, WA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 Update 2-19-2006My trusty 1976 Craftsman 10" radial arm saw came in real handy cutting the ramps. Three passes with an 80-tooth carbide blade made clean work of it. After much thought and mock up I decided to make the ramps a little more equal in length. The section that attaches to trailer is 4 1/2 feet and the flipper is 3 1/2 feet. The full weight of the spare and extended ramps took 10 full turns of the springs. It took only 2 full turns to suspend the shortened ramps. The spare must weigh more than I thought.I'm going to need an idler pully similar to this mock-up to keep the wire rope from rubbing on the arch support.The movement of the ramp was restricted by the length of the hinges so I created a floor pocket for them to rest in during transport. This gave me the additional travel necessary to tuck the ramps way into the trailer.Creating the 1/2" deep by 1" pocket moved the top of the ramps inward by 10" giving me all the clearance I need for the upper clamshell door. This pocket will be lined with stainless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 just some diffrent ideas for the trailer building public.Some things man was not ment to built....the unholy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I don't really but found them on the website you referenced as a distributor and picked them because they are half way close to me. Without knowing where Barry is I didn't know where to look for a closer distributor to him.Ain't this internet thing just nifty? It's amazing what you can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Here are some places in your area but you might want to check my note at the bottom of this postCORROSION FLUID PRODUCTS CORP.1850 Bay City RoadMidland, MI 48642Brands: Atomac, Automax, Durco, Noble Alloy, Worcester Controls Phone: 989-496-2600Fax: 989-496-2960Email: rsackett@corrosionfluid.comWebsite: www.corrosionfluid.comCORROSION FLUID PRODUCTS CORP.4475 Airwest Dr., S.E.Kentwood, MI 49512Brands: Atomac, Automax, Durco, Noble Alloy, Worcester Controls Phone: 616-554-9100Fax: 616-554-9669Email: rdingman@corrosionfluid.comWebsite: www.corrosionfluid.comCORROSION FLUID PRODUCTS CORP.24450 Indoplex Circle P. O. Box 337 (48332)Farmington Hills, MI 48335-2526Brands: Atomac, Automax, Durco, Noble Alloy, Worcester Controls Phone: 248-478-0100Fax: 248-478-8970Email: jandronaco@corrosionfluid.comWebsite: www.corrosionfluid.comFLOWSERVE SALES OFFICE11400 N. E. 30th Ave.Vancouver, WA 98686Brands: Atomac, Automax, Durco, McCANNA/MARPAC, Noble Alloy, Vogt, Worcester ControlsPhone: 360-546-5900Fax: 360-546-5901Email: mshaw@flowserve.comWebsite: www.flowserve.comAnd from the email address on this last one it looks like our buddy, Mark works here. Might need to stick with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 duh ... If I had read farther down the thread befor posting .....He said he worked there. Oh well, I was just trying to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Geeze, I've been found out! Yes, I do work for Flowserve Flow Control Division.Mark ShawVancouver, Wa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Good Morning Barry,Since now we know Mark works for Flowserve do you still need me to find out who the rep we use here at work or has Mark given you a contact name?You sure have a mind for detail. I like watching your hauler come along here. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 You may want to make a jig of the vehicle height and length and try rolling it off the trailer. My guess is that you will have to really tilt the trailer back big time and still not keep the car bumper from hitting the ground with the two piece ramp set up. My guess is the ramp that attachés to the trailer will need to be much longer.My trailer is 12" off the ground and on occasion I need to use wood under the first set of wheels out of the trailer to keep the bumper from scraping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 ?´You must have missed the beginning of this thread. The trailer will be tipped up 5° which will put the ramps on the same plane as the trailer bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 No I actually did read that but I don't believe that 5% will even be close to what you need to get a vehicle out without scraping a bumper. The longer the ramp the better. I have had issues with scraping the ground and my trailer is 12" off the ground, with the front tilted much higher then 5% and a 6 1/2' straight ramp. I myself would make a jig with 2 bicycle wheels and have it as close to your Lincoln in height and length as possible and give it a try. Just imagine the frustration of getting this beauty done and having a problem like that. The now two piece design will make the vehicle come down the ramp at a much steeper angle.Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Barry,Here is the REP that we use from ENPRO (Flowserve). Tell him that you were referred to them by UOP LLC in Des Plaines.ENPRO Eric Cook121 S. Lombard RoadAddison, IL 60101-3084tel 630.629.3504 *121 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 You missed the point. Look at the picture above. See the ramps? They are on the same plane as the trailer bed whe the trailer is tipped up 5° in the front. The ramps are split so that they will fold into the trailer (see drawings in first post). They will be hinged on the bottom of the split so the ramps will be straight when folded out. The picture I posted was just meant to represent the propostions of the split, not the angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Barry, What happens to your angle when the weight of the car shifts to the rear during loading & unloading? Do you plan to have folding jack stands near the ramp hinges?Mark ShawVancouver, WA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 Done and done. There is a 6,000 lb screw jack at each corner. They lift the entire trailer off the ground for tire change or axle service. The trailer is rock solid with all four pads on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Barry, Excellent, just let me know if you want to source Automax actuators. I have a whole list of distributors, and who knows, somebody may owe me a favor. I just started adapting my old open car trailer to become a "convertable" enclosed trailer. I will make a new post when I get a little farther along.Mark ShawVancouver, WA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted February 23, 2006 Author Share Posted February 23, 2006 I'm intrigued. What would a "convertible" trailer be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Barry, That is what Amphicar Buyer has. His converts from a car port to a trailer. Really! Ask him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted February 23, 2006 Author Share Posted February 23, 2006 I'll bite, anyone got pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Barry, I sent a PM to Amphicar Buyer and asked him to post a photo of it. Last year there was a whole thread about it. If I can find the thread, or he knows where it is, I'll let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Barry, Just like a convertible car;.... you can put the top down! I have different sized sedans and open touring cars that I towed in my big heavy enclosed trailer. After outfitting my truck with mirror extensions to see down the sides, and paying for lots of extra fuel to pull that big "air brake" down the road, I wondered why I had to use such a tall wide trailer. I still had my older open trailer that towed my sedans just fine, but it didn't protect the open cars from the elements (both criminal and weather related). I realized that I had the big trailer just so I could drive my cars into it and walk out through a door. Thats when I decided to build a convertible trailer that can be adjusted to fit the height of each car. This should significantly reduce fuel consumption for the tow vehicle and it can still be converted to an open trailer to haul other stuff. I plan to winch the cars in and out just like your "Toybox" trailer.Mark ShawVancouver, Wa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I've enjoyed watching Barry build his trailer. I think he has some really neat concepts in that trailer. I can't wait for him to finish it.Your project is the one that really sparks my interest as I've thought about doing something along that line to my open trailer, more so for using it to haul things other than my car(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted February 24, 2006 Author Share Posted February 24, 2006 Thanks Novaman.<span style="font-weight: bold">Large aluminum hinge making with woodworking tools 101</span> I needed to fabricate two 14" x 3" hinges for the trailer ramps. The pivot for the hinge will be under the ramp so the weight of the car will pinch the hinge closed. I got quotes from two local fabricators and $75.00 in material turned into $400.00 without welding. I decided to give the trusty old Craftsman radial arm saw a go at fabricating them myself. Aluminum-specific 80-tooth carbide blades cut aluminum like a hot knife through butter. Since I recently squared up the radial arm saw to cut the ramps I used it to cut the 1/2" x 3" bar stock to length. Then I cut the 1/4" wall tubing to 1 7/8". This length allowed for the installation of a 1/8" thick machine spacer in-between each hinge segment. This spacer will be replaced with a nylon washer after welding. Test fitting the pieces. I used a laminate trimmer with a carbide 45° blade to put a 1/4" chamfer on the 1/2" aluminum plate to create a V for the hinge segments to sit in. This creates more surface area for welding the hinge together. Test fit the assembly and determined areas where clearance was needed. Used the 45° blade set deeper to cut away clearance areas using the C-clamp as a stop for the trimmer. Hinge wings with clearance. Everything seems to fit well. Off to the welder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Barry,I was taking to some friends in my aluminum hinge club, or www.aluminumhinge.com and they had several issues to bring to your attention: 1. Just BS-ing you, nice hinges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 When you get done, we need a movie of it working!! Was looking at your drawings again. Any chance of attaching the lower door so it opens and closes with the ramps? Depending on the pivot point, might need some kind of slider on the ramp for a pin to ride in.Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted February 24, 2006 Author Share Posted February 24, 2006 You read my mind. I was just looking at that yesterday. Should be quite simple. I believe I can attach the lower clam shell to the ramps with wire rope attached in-line to a spring. When the ramp drops the cable would go limp. When raised the cable would go taut drawing the clamshell up to its stops and the spring would hold it without being totally rigid. Possibly a small turnbuckle for adjustments.Good suggestion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDale Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Dear Barry,NICE job on the hinges.Those BIG chips STING when your cuttin that aluminum.diz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted February 25, 2006 Author Share Posted February 25, 2006 They sure do Diz. I was taught to never wear long sleeve shirts in the shop. Ouch! What's that smell?2-24-2006Actually, the welder came to me. I wanted to see if everything should be welded while attached to the trailer. Apparently I have things jigged well enough to weld on their level welding tables.I checked all of the clearances to make sure the spare tire would fit in-between the lowered bottom half of the clam shell door and the ramp in its lowest position.The plan is to have the bottom of the clamshell door pull up into position attached to the powered ramp. The door would be held up in position by cables with spring tensioners pulling the door against its stops.The spare tire rack will double as a lever for activating the motion of the ramps. I think I'm going to go with a linear actuator to provide movement. I've found one with buit in limit switches that adjust similar to those on garage door openers. The lever you see sticking out under the ramps is the means of providing movement. The cabled counterbalance springs so equally balance the load that it takes very little effort to fold and unfold the ramps. The lever will be shortened significantly based on tests of the mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 2-26-2006Finished installing the rear clearance lights after polishing the roof in that area. Test fit drip rail and drilled holes for riveting to new 1/8" thick aluminum header. Finished the flexible wiring harness for the lights and rear facing camera on the upper half of the rear door. Installed reversing switch for linear actuator. More polishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted February 28, 2006 Author Share Posted February 28, 2006 2-27-2006Spent 6 hours at the welders today. It's a good thing that I stayed and helped/supervised. I had the undivided attention of certified welders. These guys did beautiful work. National Tool and Die Welding in Livonia, MI.The hinge segments were separated by machine washers and will be replaced by nylon. The hinge assembly was tacked in opposing locations to minimize distortion. The segments were deep welded to the plates to ensure a solid bond. The residual heat didn't allow the hinges to open for close to two hours after welding. The aluminum expanded against the washers and locked the hinge up solid.We ended up leaving them outside (23°) for about an hour and they unstuck.During the cooling process the rest of the tire mount tubes and cross-braces were welded in place. The bolts that held everything together were removed after the joints were welded and their holes filled. After the hinges were separated the matched pairs were welded to the appropriate ramp pieces.The ramps stayed remarkably flat through all that welding. The hinged "flippers were installed and folded back against the longer section. Another cross brace was installed to keep the ramps the proper distance apart. The hinges were put through their range of motion and worked smoothly.Set the ramps back in place and secured them to hinges. Installed spare tire and hooked up steel cables to hinge pin.After 27 turns the counterbalance allow the ramps just hang wherever I set them. There appears to be very little pressure necessary to induce movement.The cable attachment points need to be extended for maximum width so this was as far as I could fold the ramps in. The idler pully also needs to be extended further from the wall to be effective.Kind of looks like a Praying MantisThe hinge in operation.Works like a champ!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 TIG welding with a foot control. In the race shop where I work all our TIG welders have thumb controls. Try using a foot control while lying upside down and hanging out the side of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 This shop does lots of production work so this project was a breath of fresh air for them. I came out of there with a smoker's cough and I haven't smoked in 18 years. These were some hard working welders. The only time they took a break is when the coolant in the unit got too hot. I figure there was about 25 feet of welding in six hours. I also learned first-hand why you need to drill a vent hole. Molten aluminum spits under pressure.I don't know if I could stand the repetition of a job like that. Every time I go there I see bins and bins of the same part. Year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novaman Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Any metal that you heat up to a molten state will spit unless that heated air on the other side has somewhere to go. On the race cars, we vent every tube so there is no blowouts from the pressurized air inside the tube blowing out the tubing wall. It doesn't take much to blow out the wall of .049 4130 (chrome moly)tubing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted March 4, 2006 Author Share Posted March 4, 2006 Here's a link to the first ramp test. Ramp Test 3-3-06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 Update 3-6-06A week of inelegant fixes. Installed the new 500 lb actuator. It seemed like it was struggling to lift the ramps so I adjusted the counterbalance springs to assist the lift. Added so much lift assist that the lever broke trying to get the assembly to move.The arm was to be reinforced as it was made of aluminum rigid conduit. I wanted to make final adjustments before finalizing its position. The more powerful actuator did it for me.I fabricated a replacement out of 3/4" rigid conduit which fit perfectly inside the aluminum conduit. It functioned properly but didn't look vey good compared to the rest of the ramp so I made another arm.This time I inserted a piece of rigid steel conduit inside the aluminum conduit and bent them together. The third picture below show inelegant but effective adjustment tools.The next step was to attach the lower clam-shell door. The shape is determined by the external butresses stamped out of aluminum. They were too long for the application so they needed to be trimmed to fit.I disassembled the rear panel and it laid down flat. I determined the exact length needed to make the horizontal seam line up correctly and installed another aluminum-specific saw blade into my 7 1/4" circular saw, clamped down my 8-foot level as a straight edge a zipped right through the metal. The edge was razor sharp and straight as an arrow.Not recommended use of a radial arm saw.All parts cut to size.When I reassembled everything I realized the wood strips on the inside of the lower clam-shell door were interferring with the placement of the spare tire. The 2" wood spacers were no longer necessary as this was an insulated area in its former life. I removed the two-inch pieces of wood and replaced them with 1/2" aluminum struts. This will be covered in the same fiberglass reinforced panel material as the rest of the garage area.The lower door is pulled into position by wires attached to the hinge axle. As the ramps start to extend and drop, the lower door simply drops to the ground on cables that go slack until the door is pulled back up. I'll probably use some type of spring tensioner like that on a screen door. That should provide firm mounting with some give for flexibility.The wires are holding the door in positionThere's about 3" clearance between the lower ramp section as it swings by the lowering lower gate. I believe that that was just dumb luck.Lower panel snuggly in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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