coil springs and shocks help needed

[bhclark]

Hey,

I'm shopping for new front and rear coil springs and shocks for my '59 Invicta.

Local parts places have front coil springs and rear shocks(intereting combo?), but can't get me a complete set.

I've got prices for the springs ranging from $65 a pair from ESPO up to $175 a pair from CARS!

What's the difference? How do I know I'm getting the right springs? I need to get it right the first time, cause I'm paying a shop to put them in.

Does anyone have GM specs for these/

Also looking to get shocks...preferable upgrade to Gas charged instead of the tube-type. Does anyone have info on these? Again, Cars looks like they want about a 300% markup over Monroe shocks...but I dont have a spec for the front shocks from anyone? Am I stuck overpaying for these components?

Thanks!

[rechless1]

Wherever you end up getting springs be sure to test the compression rate. By this I mean make sure the tension is the same so that when you install them, your car does not sag to one side. This is easily done on a drill press using a bathroom scale. They should be within 10% for the same compression distance. Typically two circles of the drill press wheel is good enough.

I have also heard that gas shocks are the ones to get, but I also do not know if brand makes a difference. I do know that the more internal valves, the firmer the ride. For me, 2-3 valves is okay, and 7 is too hard.

Hope that helps.

Bill

[NTX5467]

For general parts searches to see what might be "out there" from the replacement auto parts companies, I'll use the www.rockauto.com online catalog. At least they have model year listings that go back into the middle 1950s and prior--something the corner auto parts chain store most probably doesn't have, I suspect. Even if you go into some of the auto parts manufacturers' own websites, many use a particular catalog list that might not go back past about '61 or so, and even limited items listed back that far too.

As for coil springs, Detroit Spring has the blueprints (as they claim) for all of the coil springs used by USA automakers back into the early 1900s. They might be a little pricey compared to what the auto supplies might have, but they should be correct for your vehicle. If you can find a GM Parts book that covers your model and year of Buick, it should have some spring selection charts in it--which will then relate to particular "tag codes" or "color codes" on the springs themselves AND a GM part number. Having that information can take much of the guesswork out of the whole situation (if you get them from Eaton Detroit Spring). Also, with the GM part number available, you might also do a search in the GM Restoration Parts catalog for vendors (usually the Eaton source).

In the aftermarket spring selections (i.e. Moog, Perfect Circle, or similar), they'll take several OEM applications and consolidate them into a few listings (i.e., with or without factory a/c, heavy duty, standard). If it doesn't sell, they'll discontinue the listing when they sell out.

Choosing springs from the salvage yard can be tricky. When you look in the specs section of a Moog coil spring catalog, you'll find that springs are much more complicated in real life. There's "wire diameter", free length, checking height, plus things like "ride rate" and "weight capacity". In listing their springs, GM typically does it by weight capacity, then using the various suspension options to further define the particular spring for the vehicle. In the GM realm of things, they sell their coil springs individually (and they match the other side when intalled too!) whereas the aftermarket sells them in axle pairs (which also helps compensate for any differences in what they sell and what OEM specs might have been)--and the aftermarket pairs have been close to the same price as the single OEM replacement spring (when available). The GM OEM springs would need to be a dead-on match to the original spring for warranty purposes, so they would also obviously have a tighter quality control system in place for them. But, for the purposes here, you'll need to do them in axle sets anyway.

As for shock absorbers, the "gas charged" versions will most probably be all you'll find. If Monroe still makes shocks for your vehicle, then you should be able to get them from a local Monroe dealer or auto supply source. Same with Gabriels. Not sure if ACDelco has any listings any more. Again, check the www.rockauto.com online catalog for "leads". If you are going to enter the car in any "tight" judged car shows, then you might desire to repaint the shocks to match the original production shock absorbers' color.

It might be easy to knock CARS or others for their price strategies, but if they were not making money, they could not continue in business for very long. Plus, they are supposed to know what fits your vehicle and what is not correct for it. You are paying for the total package deal when dealing with NOS or similar parts vendors, not just buying a part from a parts person that punches buttons into a computer at the chain parts store. They also must spread their overhead and inventory investment over just one operation, whereas the chain stores can work from a common master inventory location and spread the cost between their many stores. Not trying to justify what they might be doing, but just to offer some side issue comparisons.

Also, be cognizant that some of the NOS parts vendors might specialize more in one particular year and model range of Buicks than another one might. This can make a difference too. As long as you're doing things via WATTS lines and such, location and shipping charges might not be that important if that's the only place you can get those things.

BUT it's also good to be an informed consumer at all times too! We might like the more expensive luxury car makes, but that doesn't mean we have a debit card tree orchard in the back yard (some soils just don't support the growing of plastic!). Shop the online catalogs, note the prices (which will have to include freight/shipping charges, but possibly not state sales tax), and then make your best decision of where to purchase your parts. And don't forget local places like NAPA that might have sources on some of the more vintage parts. If you can find a more local source, or even one from a WATTS line vendor, that you can build a good working relationship with, all the better in the long run.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[bhclark]

I'd agree with most of what you said about CARS.....they have a right to charge more.....but if I can get the same part somewhere else, I'd like to do it. But if I pay their higher price, I would like to be SURE that I'm getting an OEM spec.

Rock auto lists the same thing I've found everywhere else for shocks...only the rears. They don't even have a coil spring listed.

I have heard elsewhere that Moog Springs(from ESPO, the cheaper ones) might be a consolidation part, not the OEM spec.....I guess that explains the $100 per pair price difference.

I've examined my shocks and it looks like the fronts are really new. bolts are clean and the shaft of the shock is really shiny. I may be able to reuse those, and if not, they don't look too dificult to swap out. The rear shocks have taken a beating due to the extreme lack of tension in the rear springs(they currently have 1 pair of spreaders and a 2x4 giving them the correct height!)

I can't decide if I want to take a chance on the cheaper springs from ESPO, at around $65 a pair, or pay the extra $160-$200 for a set from Eaton or CARS. (eaton is $135 a pair, CARS is $165)

By the way....what is a WATTS line?

Thanks!

[Bill Stoneberg]

A WATTS line is the old term for the 1 800- numbers that everyone has.

Its an old term that was around before everyone and their mothers had 800 (and 866) numbers. You know back when ATT was the only phone company around and cell phones weren't even thought of.

[Guest]

I put the ESPO springs on my 1950.

Actually I put the overload springs on.

Note, these springs are not "original", but were matched from a newer model, with the same load requirements.

A 1974 Chevy monte Carlo..... so, who cares?

Why drive yourself nuts, on something that is actually better then the original in materials and design.

Plus, who's going to see them?

[Guest Straight eight]

WATS when originally available was thought to mean WON'T ARGUE, TALK SWIFTLY

[Guest AWBE]

I put Detroit coils on my 55-76R and they are great. I don't know whether RockAuto has springs or not---but everything I have ever bought from them has been SUPER--and inexpensive, also.

[Bhigdog]

I bought front springs for my 55 from ESPO. The top of the spring is supposed to be gound flat to seat properly. these were not but I figured they would be ok. They looked OK until I installed the engine/trans and the front end. Then the unlevel top ends caused the spring to bow and rub the inside of the spring pocket in the frame. I still have them if anyone wants them. You get what you pay for..........Bob.

[bhclark]

Update. I did pick up the coil springs from Eaton. While the don't appear identical Physically, they did fit perfect and provide the correct, and even ride height. Rear shocks were picked up from NAPA and I'm still searching for fronts. (still have to change the front springs)

[ted sweet]

have parts from ESPO on 5 of my cars. An A-1 vendor.