Cargirl Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Hello Everyone! Don't ya just hate intermittent problems? I have one and am in need of some advise. My 1990 did not start the other day while at the mall. (It could have picked a worse place It was not getting any spark so replaced the ignition coil pack (just the top part:Autozone $44.00) After replacing it the car fired right up. The next day I took it to the grocery store and the same thing...no start. I thought the part fial and took it back to Autozone and put the new one in..fired right up. The next day the same thing happened....started ok but failed after driving it again. This time I took off the coil pack and put it back on...the same one. Did not start right up but waited 5 minutes and turned it over and it started again. It's home now and I pulled all the wires even to the bottom wiring cluster of the coil pack and it starts evertime. I can't get it to fail in the driveway and when I drive it around the neighborhood but now hate to drive it anywhere because it could fail again. Should I replace the bottom part of the coil pack...perhaps a loose wire down there...it's a sealed unit so it's not possible to check it out. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointe Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Most likely its the ignition module Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimustanguitar Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 you replaced the coils that do what the ignition module tells them to... it sounds like the ignition module is not telling the coils what to do correctly. try replacing the module, and it should work for you. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I have gone through a similar situation a couple of times before and can't remember if the car cranks and won't start or won't crank when the security system does not see the chip on the key. What I am trying to say is, if you have another ignition key try using that one. I do know if there is a problem with in the chip/security system there is a 5 minute time delay before the car will start again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I personally would F the old square magnavoz coil pack and swap over to a later Delco with the round coils. $60 from a junkyard (reference car I've used is a '95 Park Avenue) and $60 well spent since they like never go bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargirl Posted June 12, 2005 Author Share Posted June 12, 2005 I tend to agree that it seems like it's the ignition module. Does anyone know the email addy for Jim Finn or Reattadudes? Or perhaps there's someone that has a spare ignition module for sale? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 These coil packs and module are on Ebay almost all the time. But a good idea to pick one up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Brenda, I can be reached at jfinn@cpinternet.comI will send you an email at the last address I have for you. BxxxGxxx@aol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadster90 Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Boy do I love a woman that can work on a car . Replace the ICM Brenda.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Boy do I love a woman that can work on a car . Replace the ICM Brenda.... </div></div>nic:I have also noticed from her postings that she can be witty and charming. And she is obviously educated with a certain sophistication and YES mechanically inclined... Oh yes mechanically inclined, how rare.... if only she looked looks Lynda Carter ... and cooks like Julia Child ...Who knows ... perhaps she does?Coming to Syracuse and/or Rochester???PS: Brenda come into the 90s and follow F14s advice ... go for the <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> swap over to a later Delco with the round coils. $60 from a junkyard (reference car I've used is a '95 Park Avenue) and $60 well spent since they like never go bad. </div></div> Live a little!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargirl Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 Your too kind Nic! Actually, I kinda look like Lucy Lawless...AKA Xena the Warrior Princess. Same hair/eyes and features...and love to wear leather as well I am leaning in favor of the ignition keys resistance being off now. Two times that it did not start after being driving I messed with the coil pack to no avail but waited awhile and it started. I do have both sets of original keys and just started the car 8 times...4 times for each key and it started each time. JiM Finn tells me there is a 5 minute delay if the resistance is high or low and the alarm goes off. Thinking out loud here but I have a Jeep and when the alarm goes off it resets when you hit the key FOB to unlock doors. I wonder if the Buick's are the same and the Key FOB ressets the alarm? Perhaps they can check the resistance at the dealer, will call tomorrow. I will also let you know the results as I play with the car. Jim Finn does have a spare Ignition Module for sale at a very fair price. For any newbies here to the group that read this post, if you need any Reatta parts for your baby, Jim Finn has lots of parts, is extremely fair in his prices and ships quickly. I was burned recently shopping on EBAY and only use it as a last resort. Lots of good deals there for sure, but lots of sharks in them there waters as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I've read all the replys and all are good, BUT, I'd put my money on the crank sensor. This is exactly how they act when they go.If the engine cranks, then the Passkey chip in the key is good.Let us know what you find.Leather, huh?....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadster90 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Lucy..Xena...Warrior....Princess.....LEATHER >>>>>> OUI ! STRONG...I don't care if it is to much >>>> I can take it Can't go wrong with Jim BK...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greg Ross Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I'm with you Harry on this one, in my 200,000 + miles on 3800s' I've had several Ignition Coils go sour and that's not the mode of failure typically. One ended up dead as a Nit but was only intermittant for about 10 minutes. The other one still started but acted like it was running on 3 cylinders (but wasn't coil) My '88 only had one fit with the Security disable module and that never happened again, as I recall that was a "does not crank"Don't have any experience with the pass key issue but when reading this last night was thinking of suggesting cleaning the wiring harness connectors to the ICM, crank and cam sensors "just because"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 The Passkey business is nothing but a resistor pellet in the key; the contacts in the ignition lock read this resistance, and tells a 'black box' the the correct key is in the tumbler. The idea is that car thieves usually punch out the lock tumbler, and start the car with a screwdriver. Adding the resistor thwarts this. If the correct resistance isn't read, then the 'black box' won't allow the engine to crank, and doesn't allow injectors to fire. It locks out ANY attempt to restart for 4-5 minutes, when it reactivates. It has nothing to do with the alarm system. But 'NO CRANK' is the tip-off for Passkey problems. I often will measure the pellet resistance, and solder that value of resistor (used to be in the tv repair business) in the circuit to bypass the problems with the pellet and the contacts in the lock tumbler that are starting to creep up with us in these cars as they age.Had a '90 Deville the other day that failed to crank; waited the prescribed 5 minutes, and it started. Next day I hard wired a resistor in to bypass the problem with the tumbler contacts/wires; no more problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Well I posted instructions on how to changeover to the Delco ignition on my web page and have changedover all of my 3800s so am a bit biased but first make sure the connector on the end of the ignition module (13 wire, takes 7 mm socket) is tight. I have suspicions about that connector.With a passkey issue, the car will not crank at all.If that doesn't work, check the pressure in the fuel rail - have also seen a failing fuel pump act that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I forgot to give Padgett the credit for his grand idea with the coil packs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I kinda look like Lucy Lawless...AKA Xena the Warrior Princess. </div></div>WOW! but without cooking, can only give you a 8.729Could it somehow be related to your recent coolant problem? Has everything dried out? I would think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juddev Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I kinda look like Lucy Lawless...AKA Xena the Warrior Princess. Same hair/eyes and features...and love to wear leather as well </div></div> I For One, Would Love To see A Picture Of You Next To Your Reatta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargirl Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 The ignition module connector is secure. I removed it and put it back on again. I did not spray it with wire cleaner and will do so tomorrow. The cam sensor? That's a new one on me but will clean the connectors tommorow as well. One question....where is the can sensor located?? Since I raised the issue (so to speak) I guess I have to own up to it...when the trouble with the car is resolved, the picture will be posted! I do not have a Xena outfit handy, but can give my mailing address for anyone willing and able to send me the outfit for the pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greg Ross Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 You're having a bit of fun with this bunch of classless lugs! You'll find the Cam Sensor right around the water pump on the engine front cover. If I remember correctly on the 3.8 it's secured with a single screw/ bolt. It should be the only electrical harness connector in that immediate vicinity.What Padgett refers to with the ICM connector, because seating relies entirely on the fastener pulling it in. I thought I was having some trouble with the Delco Module and would wiggle it at intervals (the connector, the connector!)as I threaded the bolt in. Problem turned out to be more serious, 2 broken pistons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 CRANK sensor!! Not cam sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 After giving it a little more thought I agree, and emailed Brenda, it would not be the pass key system as Harry said, the engine will not crank. I also do not believe it is the cam sensor because the engine will always run with a bad sensor or magnet, just run poorly.It is not uncommon for the ignition modules to go bad and again as Harry said it could also be the crank sensor, although personally I have not seen that one be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Jim, you must live right. I've seen more than the random failure, enough to suspect it when this failure to run (cranks, but doesn't start), then will start whenever it damn well wants to.They're not always easy to change. The sensor bracket tends to oxidize itself to the locator pin, and has to be broken off. At least that's been my experience here in the east.You can buy the sensor all by itself, or for a few more bucks, with the bracket. Pulling the harmonic balancer requires an impact wrench. The code L motors require a puller. The code C motors (88-90) are a slip fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Engine will run and give the code if the cam sensor or magnet goes. IME when the crank sensor goes, it may get home but once shut down it won't start again.Might be useful to run some test if just one of the three magnets breaks but doubt that it would ever run properly.Coilpack usually ether stumbles at low rpm moderate load (locked up at 50 and pulling a mild grade) or loses 2 cyl entirely (but starts on 4).Wiring or ICM can cause "starts sometimes" or "starts, runs for x miutes, and just quits.I have trouble lights for spark and injectors testing, a fuel pressure guage, and built a breakout box for checking the ICM with an O'scope because all can act like any of the above and will generally not set trouble codes.You can visually check the crank sensor from underneath and the resistance values are listed in the "Cranks but does not run" section of the manual (use also for "starts but dies").Or you can throw parts at it until something changes. Think the least expensive ICM I found was from Advance Auto (PartsAmerica) - GP Sorenson & under $100.AutoZones usually have a Wells tester but I have seen bad modules test good on the tester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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