Guest Posted April 24, 2000 Share Posted April 24, 2000 My 90 Reatta has developed an intermittent and very scary tendency to pull sharply to the right, lock up, and fail to stop the car. We have had it in the shop 4 times and nothing can be found. Yesterday it happened and I wasn't able to pull it out, its a terrifying experience to say the least. There is no pattern to this problem, it is getting more frequent, but it will happen, the pedal gets extremely stiff, then almost goes to the floor, then its fine, for days, or weeks or months. ANY IDEAS??? HELP?? Thanks, Jahnff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2000 Share Posted April 24, 2000 If you back through the archieves, there are numerous posts that address this issue ...<BR>~Brenda<BR>PS - get it fixed, my first Reatta had the same problem & nearly killed me (literally)<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html" TARGET=_blank>http://members.aol.com/gohighr/reatta.html</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 25, 2000 Share Posted April 25, 2000 Hello again, folks. I have decided to write a letter to Buick. I called their Customer Service Number and they asked me to put it in writing what the heck I was talking about with the brake failures. I pointed them to this discussion area and to NHTSA. I don't know how everyone else here feels, but I sure would like to see AT LEAST a service advisory about brake system checkups that would avoid these problems in the first place. I think that would be a reasonable solution given the age and mileage of most of these cars. Doubtful that a recall would ever happen, but we could press for a bulletin to go out to Buick dealers advising service techs what to look for.<P>Or at least that's what I think should be done. I was able to write as a disinterested party (no longer owning a Reatta) to explain what the pattern is looking like. The hard pedal, the lockups, etc. Maybe they'll research it or get back to me. Maybe they'll just ignore it.<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 25, 2000 Share Posted April 25, 2000 I have a 1990 Reatta and have had a similar braking problem. In a panic stop the brake peddle gets stiff and there is little or no braking action. If I pump the peddle it then starts to brake, but pulls to the left. Alternatively I just push through the stiffness and then it starts to brake, but again pulls to the left. I took it to my regular mechanic and he agreed there was a problem and the car is dangerous as is, but he said he didn't have the computer equipment to isolate the problem and recommended taking it to a dealer, which I did. The dealer could find no problem after taking it to them three times. The brake specialist even took me for a ride in it and did several panic stops with and without the ABS connected and could not recreate the problem. I'd really like to know what you find out on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 25, 2000 Share Posted April 25, 2000 I urge you to stop driving this car until you get this very serious problem fixed. In the meantime, please also contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (their website and phone number can be found in those older posts) and let them know what you are experiencing.<P>There seem to be several possible causes for the brake failures in these cars. It can be a very expensive repair if not caught early enough. Besides risking your life, you are risking a huge repair bill if you continue to use the car.<P>The idea behind contacting NHTSA is to alert them to the fact that the brake systems (probably the ABS system) in these cars suffers from a dangerous and unpredictable type of failure. I would like to see a recall.<P>Barring that, the best thing you can do is get this current problem fixed right away, then have your sensors and entire brake system checked thoroughly every year (or whatever frequency makes you feel most comfortable).<P>The problem most commonly implicated here is a bad pump, but the pulling to one side is indicative of something else in addition or instead.<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 25, 2000 Share Posted April 25, 2000 I'll gladly let you all know what Buick says, if anything. In the meantime, I firmly advise you NOT to drive the car if it is still acting up. I'm curious, you say the mech disconnected the ABS and now you don't have the problem. Is that something your mechanic recommended as a solution? Are you leaving the ABS out of the loop for good? Perhaps this would be a good solution for the guy in the first post as well?<P>By the way, he asked if anyone knows about existing service bulletins or advisories. I never saw any about this, but maybe someone else has them?<P>I also urge everyone with this problem to lodge a complaint with NHTSA. If GM decides not to act, we can still pressure NHTSA to pursue it if there are enough cases of a similar nature.<P>Another question for the mechanics on this board: Can you think of a safe alternative like replacement of the ABS or removing it, or some other action that would give the rest of the owners some peace of mind?<P>This only happened once on my car and my wife and I were so spooked we never drove it again (towed it to the dealer, then towed it 50 miles to where we traded it in). I can't believe people are driving their cars with the potential for this problem to re-occur!!!<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 25, 2000 Share Posted April 25, 2000 See my post dated 03/01-00 on the same problem. 'em' responded on 03/07 That Buick had a service bulletin No.315004 dated Jan. 1994 titled 'Intermittant pull under hard braking'..I will put in more later no time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Buick Mike Posted April 25, 2000 Share Posted April 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jahnff:<BR><B>My 90 Reatta has developed an intermittent and very scary tendency to pull sharply to the right, lock up, and fail to stop the car. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> I had the same problem. It was a bad ABS valve. Had it replaced (expensive!) and the brakes have been fine ever since. <P> My mechanic (not a dealer) was able to diagnose this on the first try. I would suggest you find a better shop.<P>Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 To anyone thinking of replacing their brake system with one from another car be advised that TSB 315004 also covers most 86-91 full size Buicks, Cadillacs, Oldsmobiles and Bonnievilles with ABS. You might get a system with the same problem.<BR> Out of despiration to find the cause of my brake pull I purchased the ALLDATA service manual on CD. I also purchased access to the Service Bulletins. As noted on this forum before this program is of limited value as a repair manual but could be of some value if you don't have a real manual. However, the TSB's are pretty interesting and cover a lot of the problems mentioned here such as low oil warning light. When I determined that I probably needed a very expensive valve block I traded both of my Reattas. The program takes about 20 MB of drive space and can be uninstalled. It is registered for a 89 Reatta but most of it is the same for other years also. If anyone is interested it's yours for the asking. I'll make a few copies of TSB 315004 also in case anyone wants one of them.<BR> wem@interactive.net<BR> <BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by em:<BR><B> To anyone thinking of replacing their brake system with one from another car be advised that TSB 315004 also covers most 86-91 full size Buicks, Cadillacs, Oldsmobiles and Bonnievilles with ABS. You might get a system with the same problem.<BR> Out of despiration to find the cause of my brake pull I purchased the ALLDATA service manual on CD. I also purchased access to the Service Bulletins. As noted on this forum before this program is of limited value as a repair manual but could be of some value if you don't have a real manual. However, the TSB's are pretty interesting and cover a lot of the problems mentioned here such as low oil warning light. When I determined that I probably needed a very expensive valve block I traded both of my Reattas. The program takes about 20 MB of drive space and can be uninstalled. It is registered for a 89 Reatta but most of it is the same for other years also. If anyone is interested it's yours for the asking. I'll make a few copies of TSB 315004 also in case anyone wants one of them.<BR> wem@interactive.net<BR> <BR> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I would definitely be interested in the alldata info. What do I need to do<P> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 Ronald...e-mail me the address where you want it sent and its yours. Let me know if you want the CD or just a copy of the TSB. I was going to throw the CD away so you are welcome to if if you want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 Ronald...e-mail me the address where you want it sent and its yours. Let me know if you want the CD or just a copy of the TSB. I was going to throw the CD away so you are welcome to if if you want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 I'll keep asking until someone answers! I've looked back through old discussions and found only hints. Someone reading this knows. I imagine "bscopatz" knows.<BR>What is the difference, as specific in laborers terms as you can get, in the brake system for 1991 Reatta's compared to 88 thru 90 Reatta's???? All the brake discussions have two similarities: First, they all have to do with 1988 thru 1990; Second, no one with a 1991 Reatta has the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 Sorry, echo, I don't know a thing. I'm sure someone out there does. IS DenMech still posting? Barney do you know?<P> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 Sorry I didn't get back sooner bscopatz. In your respnse to my message you asked the following, "I'm curious, you say the mech disconnected the ABS and now you don't have the problem. Is that something your mechanic recommended as a solution? Are you leaving the ABS out of the loop for good? Perhaps this would be a good solution for the guy in the first post as well?" <P>The problem did not show itself with the ABS connected or disconnected while the mechanic was driving it. He reconnected the ABS after the demonstration. As he could not find the problem he did not recommend anything to solve it. <P>After this, I took the car home and the problem seemed to have gone away, but then started to recurr again a few weeks later. As a result I've driven the car very little the last couple of months. I'm gathering information from this site to take to another dealer in the area and see if i can get this resolved so I'll feel comfortable driving the car again.<P>By the way I did ann electronic complaint with NHTSA also on May 17.<P> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 Echo, the '91's use a different system, which in my opinion is much better. It is a more conventional vacuum boosted system. Owners of '91's can give you a better feel for this.<P>------------------<BR>Hal, btk@vbe.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted May 30, 2000 Share Posted May 30, 2000 My two cents worth.... I believe that many of these brake problems are either being misdiagnosed or the service person lacks experience with the system. It is complex but can be broken down into pieces and worked as components.<BR>Is the problem.... 1. just a brake problem. 2. a booster problem, 3, a master cylinder problem, 4, a ABS problem. <BR>I think you can determine yourself if it is a ABS problem by disconnecting the connector going into the ABS unit. I experimented with my working system and nothing is damaged if you disconnect the connector.<P>If you believe the ABS is causing you car to pull to one side, it is very simple to remove the connector and totally disable the ABS.<BR>If the car continues to pull to one side then look elsewhere for the problem.<P>To disable, turn the car OFF. On the engine side of the master cylinder assembly there is a flat connector (about 7 wires) with a blue locking key. Remove the key, depress the lock, and pull out the connector. Your ABS light will stay on when you drive the car and the ABS cannot work because you have disconnected the signals to make it function.<P>It's possible that there is still a problem with the ABS sending a false signal, but eliminate the simple things before jumping into the expensive part.<P>This subject is too complex to address in one note on this forum. <P>------------------<BR>Barney Eaton Reatta technical advisor for BCA and keeper of the Reatta database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 Brought forward for Buick Folks.<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncgirl05 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I did a search for the words "pulling to the left" and got this thread. Since it's from 2000 I thought maybe someone would have some more thoughts on this problem. My '89 pulls to the left when I have to do a quick hard brake when driving, and even then it's not every time - maybe 50% of the time? Needless to say it's a bit aggravating and I would LOVE to be able to find out what's making it happen.Anyone solve a problem like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadster90 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I had the same problem and it requires a Teeves to resolve. There is a TSB on the topic....go to Reatta.net and get in to the long list of TSB's and you will find it. The problem is actually the most expensive component of the Teeves system....I forget the descriptive word, but the component adjustsor equalizes the amount of hydralics to the front calipers (getting old - hate when that happens )I wrote this post before reading the above posts....it can be called the "valve block" as in one of the above posts, but there is still the proper term of which I still can not remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">go to Reatta.net and get in to the long list of TSB's and you will find it.</div></div>Nic, could you please tell me how to find the TSBs on Reatta.net? Or better still give me a link to the page?Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadster90 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Ronnie,Still confused on doing links.Go to Reatta.net and go to documentation...the TSB's are in that section. See your PM for other info.Nic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncgirl05 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Hmmmm... GM Parts Direct has the Valve Block listed for $487 - YIKES! We have an '88 parts car - would the '88 valve block fit an '89? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadster90 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 You are lucky to have a spare....Replace the whole Teeves assy with your used one....Not that replacing the valve block can not be done of course, BUT .... could be not asking .... but begging for trouble by attempting partial parts replacement of the Teeves.The condition you are experencing is not only aggrafretting and scary, but dangerous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 I would start by checking the standard, non TEVES brake parts to be sure they are in good working order before spending money, such as:* internal collapsed brake hose* blocked or pinched steel brake line* a stuck caliper* pads worn unevenly* pads completely worn out on one sideA front end way out of alignment could cause the car to pull to one side. Also eliminate the ABS system as being the problem as Barney suggests above. THEN start looking at the TEVES unit as the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Since it is an intermittant problem, I would say it's the ABS portion of the Teeves. I would disconnect it and drive it carefully and try to duplicate the problem before I would start throwing money at it. You don't need ABS anyway. It's for incompetents. Put a piece of tape over the light. Or let it shine to remind you not to tailgate. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadster90 Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 hmmmmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncgirl05 Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Found the TSB:Technical Service Bulletin # Date: 940101<span style="font-weight: bold">Intermittent Pull Under Hard Braking</span> (Vehicles W/ABS)Group Ref.: BrakesBulletin No.: 315004Date: January, 1994SUBJECT:<span style="font-weight: bold">INTERMITTENT PULL WITH A HARD BRAKE APPLY DURING NON-ABS STOP ON ABS EQUIPPEDVEHICLES </span>(REPLACE ABS VALVE BLOCK/PRESSURE MODULATOR VALVE)MODELS:1986-90 BUICK ELECTRA1986-91 BUICK LESABRE<span style="font-weight: bold">1988-90 BUICK RIVIERA, REATTA</span>1991 BUICK PARK AVENUE1986-91 CADILLAC DEVILLE, FLEETWOOD1988-90 CADILLAC ELDORADO, SEVILLE1986-91 OLDSMOBILE NINETY-EIGHT, EIGHTY-EIGHT1988-90 OLDSMOBILE TORONADO, TROFEO1986-91 PONTIAC BONNEVILLEEQUIPPED WITH ANTILOCK BRAKESTHIS BULLETIN IS BEING REVISED TO ADD THE 1991 MODEL YEAR FOR "C" AND "H" VEHICLESINCLUDING PART AND WARRANTY INFORMATION. PREVIOUS DIVISIONAL PUBLICATION NUMBERSWERE: DIVISION BULLETIN NUMBER BUICK 90-5-17 CADILLAC T-93-134 GM OF CANADA 315004R OLDSMOBILE 90-T-213 PONTIAC 90-5-19Some owners may comment on intermittent pull with a hard brake apply, but without ABSactivation. The intermittent pull can be either to the left or right and only occurswith hard non-ABS stops.This condition may be due to a base brake condition, loose suspension component, orthe Antilock Brake System. When working on a vehicle with this condition, use thefollowing procedure:1. <span style="font-weight: bold">Inspect the base brake system</span>. Check for loose or binding calipers, damaged rotors, or restricted brake lines. Refer to Section 5 of the applicable Service Information Manual for complete inspection and repair procedures.2. <span style="font-weight: bold">Inspect the suspension system.</span> Check for loose control arms, damaged struts, or bushings. Refer to Section 3 of the applicable Service Information Manual for complete inspection and repair procedures.3. <span style="font-weight: bold">If nothing is found during the above inspections, replace the AntiLock brake system valve block</span>, (pressure modulator valve for 1991 models). Follow the procedure in the appropriate Service Information Manual. 1986-87 C/H Models Valve Block .....P./.N 25530880 1988-90 C/H Models Valve Block .....P./.N 25533639 1988-90 E/K Models Valve Block .....P./.N 1646523 1991 C/H Models Pressure Modulator Valve P/N 25559182We did steps 1 and 2 above and found nothing, which was frustrating. Looks like the valve block according to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 I converted mine to a Riviera unit for less than half of what that Rube Goldberg valve block costs. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadster90 Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 PROPORTIONING VALVE ASSEMBLY was the word/s I was at loss for....below is a portion of a post by Drake referring to the PVA.Proportioning Valve (s) [Re: nic walker] Drake Member Registered: 02/19/08 Posts: 186 Loc: Oswego, Illinois "Nic, you are absolutely correct about the proportioning valve assembly ( valve block assembly ). It is actually a main part of the Teves unit itself." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 The proportioning valve is not part of the Teves. The proportioning valve is located near the left rear wheel. It regulates the front/rear bias during normal braking and wouldn't have anything to do with severe pulling. That would have to be related to a bias between the two front wheels. If some restriction or frozen caliper has been ruled out, it would have to be in the valve block, which might be functioning in some partial ABS mode or something. You can buy a used Teves for less than $100 that you can get the valve block off of. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Think I would do a complete brake fluid flush first and see what shows up. I had a front rubber brake line that was disintegrating from the inside that was giving me intermittent problems. If you see lots of black or rust colored particles in the drained fluid you have probably found your problem. I would buy a complete rebuild Teves off the post on eBay rather than pay that much just for a valve block Assy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 I saw Jim Finn today at my favorite u-pull yard. He grabbed two of them. One is sure to work. Try him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 I had a follow-up to my last post that has disappeared reminding you to depressurize the system before you pull the valve block off the Teves. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncgirl05 Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 oooohhh - Thanks! We're going to make the switch today - glad I was reading threads this morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncgirl05 Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nic walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PROPORTIONING VALVE ASSEMBLY was the word/s I was at loss for </div></div>I think the proper term is PROPORTION<span style="font-weight: bold">ER</span> VALVE ASSEMBLIES. I am looking through the service manual now and just saw this - these proportioner valve assemblies go into the master cylinder.Funny enough, I had to order a PROPORTIONING valve for my other '89. If you happened to see my other thread about brake fluid being 'all gone' - this was the reason for THAT car.Geesh - you know, if these cars had "normal" brakes we probably <span style="font-style: italic">almost</span> wouldn't need a forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncgirl05 Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DAVES89</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I saw Jim Finn today at my favorite u-pull yard. He grabbed two of them. One is sure to work. Try him. </div></div>Okay, I was just reading the service manual and it instructs one to take off the hydraulic unit before taking off the valve block... if Jim grabbed 2 of them, then I'm assuming he did NOT take off the hydraulic unit and just took off the 3 retaining nuts to remove the valve block. Correct? Is the manual making it more difficult than it should be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 I've never removed the valve block, but I don't see why you would need to remove the Teves which IS SOMETHING YOU DON'T WANT TO DO. Don't lose the O rings. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobwhite Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 When I had this problem, it would pull and lockup once every month or so. I never knew when it would happen, so I had to try to be ready all the time, what a pain. I tried the easiest recommended solution first, I replaced the brake fluid and did a flush of the braking system as per the instructions for a Reatta. That was about ten years ago. I haven't had that problem since, and I change the fluid and have a flush done every year or 18 months. Other than replacing the accumulator once, and replacing the brake pads, I have not had any more braking problems. Someday I would like to do the brake upgrade with bigger wheels and rotors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncgirl05 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 We performed the 'operation' today and after a test drive filled with quick stops I can report SUCCESS. However, my ABS light, which has been on for some time, is STILL on. But right now I'm just happy about the straight braking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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