A Serious Question

[Twitch]

"The AACA is dedicated to perpetuating the memories of early automobiles by encouraging their history, collection and use."

A manufacturers of NEW motor vehicles are licensed by the various states they operate in. This goes for motorcycles also. This goes for Shay cars or Paul Teutel's latest S&S motored American Chopper with a custom frame. When I worked at Road & Track many years ago they merged with Cycle World which published Dune Buggies & Hot VWs. Remember dune buggies? Bruce Meyers manufactured the Meyers Manx dune buggy which sure as hell didn't look like a VW. The titles said that though. For a DMV to put Mercedes on a replicar or 1929 Model A on a Shay is probably easier than we think. Have just a bill of sale, no title, from the old owner who calls the vehicle by the original manufacturer's name. Take it to the DMV in another state. They sit in the office and type it up as the old car. A person who is no automotive expert, but a state employee, checks the VIN. He/she has absolutely no idea that 1929 Fords did not have a OHV engine. Most probably don't know the difference between a flathead and OHV. That's it. Your car is whatever you want it to be legally now.

RonBarn- I'm happy to hear you think my wondering that perhaps some decision-makers in some organizations are elitist is unwarranted. By taking exception to the querry it proves, at least, some are not. Good!

The quote at the beginning above encompasses all cars. I guess the Shay has a history worth telling just as Dusenberg does. No doubt the founder sought a way for folks to have the fun of an antique auto without the hassle and expense of parts-finding expeditions and specialized mechanical maintainence. There's probably some interesting stuff that happened as things came together for the replicar to be born. Most limited quantity manufacturers never make it to start up after building a prototype and sending out press releases to the auto media. So the fact that this Shay thing was actually produced is amazing in the anals of automotive history in itself.

Today if you want to have the thrill and nostalgia of owning a 1932 Ford roadster you may have a very hard time of finding a suitable chassis and body to begin with, much less suspension, dash and all the rest. This ain't the 1950s with the "farmer's barn" stories. That's long over for the most part.

So what do you do? You can built several 30s-era historical stand-out autos by using modern replica parts. And the bodies don't have to be yucky fiberglass anymore. There's such an interest that there are companies producing steel body shells? If there was not a demand for these specialty parts there would be no industry. That's simple Econ 101. If a 1934 Ford 3-window coupe is a replicar but still looks beautiful and gives pleasure to its owner and spectators that's a good thing. Ok it might have a modern frame and disc brakes but the flathead V8 replica blocks go a long way toward original looks. Sure it probably has an OHV V8 but if the hood is closed it IS, for all intent and purpose to onlookers, a 1934 Ford, not a Boyd Coddington creation. Would the owner foist it off as a true 1934 Ford? Unlikely since the Coddington-built car is worth infinitely more!

I saw just such a car on Saturday at a club cruise. It was a real 1932 Ford 5 window steel coupe on a 1932 frame. The hood was closed so I have no idea the motive power- probably OHV V8. And it had modern, not era-wheels. That's it. Otherwise bone stock in appearance. There were some non-original-Ford roadsters with big tires and huge V-8s built on custom chassis with glass bodies. Anyone could tell the difference.

As far back as maybe 10-15 years there was a company building rolling, complete cars like a 34 Ford without running gear. That was for the buyer to do. If that produced them as the "Yahoomobile" legally by their state's accordance. Then when they're 25 years old they'll be classic Yahoomobiles.

The very popular Cobra replicars have been built as complete cars, not kits, for quite a while. When they become 25 they too will be classics.

These are just 2 examples of cars that are obtainable by the average person without the need for massive expense and parts hunts that only turn on a few hardcore people.

Hal said it all with, "If the AACA wants to make a class for replica's that are 25 years old, I have no problem. Just list them as the real year model."

I can't see why anyone would argue with that.

[1937hd45]

WHO CHANGED THE FORMAT OF THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It now fills 2 1/2 screen widths,and is unreadable. Must have been a Shay lover!

[R W Burgess]

You're right, Bob. Impossible to read. I gave up on it. Most of the time a large picture attachment causes this. ????? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Got me! Wayne

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Twitch...out of curiosity, remove the moving Chevy Wagon icon.

As Wayne mentioned, normally a large photo will expand the text.

Will e-mail our webmechanic to see what causes this.

Regards,

Peter J.

[Twitch]

Thread format was tweaked real wide when I logged on before I every wrote word one. ??? I'll remover that emoticon just for fun though....

[R W Burgess]

I, like you Pedro, are curious to what caused this phen.. Wayne

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Fixed via PeterG...

Peter J.

[Al Smeraldo]

Great discussion topic, Howard. I can forsee many administrative problems with a class for these types of vehicles. There have been quite a number of cars that might fall into this category and they are very diverse. I remember a Cord replica that was about 3/4 size. The very pricey Dusenberg replica. The modern iteration of the Stutz. The Cobras would present a special problem. How would you determine whether it was built from a kit or was factory manufactured? Some manufacturers sell them both ways. I do believe that they are part of our automotive heritage though just as Model "T" and American La France speedsters are. It would take a real King Solomon to administer this class.

[A. Woolf]

Howard,

This is a question that should have been addressed years ago. I felt like AACA was making a mistake when they lifted the cap on age eligibility and started the 25 year and older rule. I have been of the opinion ever since that the rapid proliferation of cars eligible for judging tends to overwhelm the judging staff.

It will be difficult to make changes now but I think it is appropriate to put some limits on eligibility and create a committee to determine eligibility for some of these limited production cars. They could be accepted on a request basis if it can be demonstrated that they have some relevance to automotive history. AACA really needs to consider limiting eligibility to maintain the integrity of the judging process. There are plenty of opportunities to get involved now with a wide range of vehicles.

Alan

[pa67smith]

This issue will have to be dealt with eventually. I'm surprised no one brought

up the other Shay cars such as the first generation T birds. A Shay version wouldn't fool anyone with a passing interest in them but the licencing and classification problems exist for this model as well. Pat

[ex98thdrill]

Ron, with all due respects, I disagree with the definition. I see no problem with allowing the tractors in, and the current definition is totally narrow minded. Understanding that you're only quoting the book, and not preaching gospel, I'm a firm believer that time has passed and things should be rethought.

The antique tractors are as much a part of history as anything, and it allows younger people the way to get into the hobby for an affordable price. Were they street legal and driven daily??? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Am I looking to see Lawn and Garden tractors?? NO!! But on the same token, the Artic Cat and Rupp mini-bikes were never built to driven daily as motor vehicles either!! Those mini bikes were built for kids!!

In all fairness, we either should allow the old farm tractors in, or get the mini bikes out. On the flip side of the coin, the mini bike owners are card carrying members who pay their dues, and are able to enjoy the hobby at an affordable price, and for a club that wants more members and a younger crowd, the farm tractors should be allowed in. Currently I don't believe that there is a national club that recognizes farm tractors. This could be a way to boost our membership.

If you establish the classes and no one comes in to a meet, then the issue is dead. If you don't establish the classes, and people don't join, then we're going to lose. I like the race cars as much as anyone, but last I knew, tractors have competed in tractor pulls too.

As for the snowmobiles, the rulebook does state that the vehicle must be driven on the field, so with a summer meet, you very well could rule those out very easily.

Without offending anyone, I've seen some judges "knitpick" a vehicle very badly and yet to their credentials, they've got a Senior AGNM on a Cushman that they paid someone to restore. I have been actually been told by a judge that if I wanted to reduce the point deductions on a vehicle and get the awards to do a scooter! That isn't what this club is about.

With the issue of replicars, if the car was built by a factory, how can you keep them out? A production car is a production car. Most cars from a given decade look like most of the other cars from that same decade, so how can you turn a car away for looking like something else? You can't go by production numbers because the GM only made about 300 1953 Corvettes when many of the replicars had higher production numbers.

Ron, I know you're only quoting the book, and this is not against you, and I'm not trying to aggravate you or anyone else. But I think that it is time for a change. The tractors were out before the cars were, and they too are history. Perhaps a person might join the club, show a tractor or a scooter, and as time and money allows, they might get interested enough to buy an old car.