cost of paint job

[FRANKL]

i was wondering what the cost of having someone (body shop) strip and paint a car is running in your area. i haven't checked for over 10 years and i am getting some quotes on having my 49 painted (base and clear coat). i am surprised at what i'm finding. very few people will even take the time to quote and those that do are a lot higher than i expected. ($3500 - 4500) i know the cost of materials has gone way up since lacquer and they make a lot more on insurance jobbs but it seems a lot for the work. i guess i'll have to buy some equipment and learn some new skills.

just curious if this is just my area, rhode island, or if this is the norm.

thanks

[DizzyDale]

Dear Frank,ALL depends on what kind of job their going to do.For 4500 sounds like the bumpers are the ONLY thing coming off and EVERYTHING else gets taped up.YOU get what you PAY for....NOT unheard to pay 10,000 to 15,000 for a job when car has to come apart,metalwork and blocking and reassembly.Material is goin cost you at least 1,000.IMHO diz <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, I paint my own cars, but if I was doing one for someone else, I would charge $5,000 or more. Man, That's a lot of work, if done correctly. And I only do it good enough to please myself, not someone else. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

[WCraigH]

I also will be doing my own prep and paint work on my projects because of the cost. I've heard quotes up to $20,000 and 1 year wait. Fortunately, I have a local car buddy who has painted several of his cars (a 1967 Porsche and a 1937 Buick, both of which turned out beautifully). He's willing to tutor me through the process. Also, I'll be painting my 1976 Firebird turbo project car as a learning experience before I tackle the Panther. With $$$ willing, both will happen this year. I'll post the experience and JPGs on my website.

[Twitch]

I am currently getting our 73 Z-28 done. Believe me it was crappy with about 4 coats on it= a lot of prep work. In Southern California we're blessed with lots of shops and high costs for most things.

There is a shop here that does nothing but custom and "old cars" work that took it down to the naked metal, everything off and over about a 10 day period layed on primer and paint with rub out and wet sanding between coats until clear. $3500- can't touch this! A chain auto body/paint place, 1 Day, has a $1999 price for their so-called primo job and you can be sure they aren't going to be pampering it like my place.

Is there any sort of school that teaches auto shop around you? Reason being- they could do the basic tough labor of removing the paint and preping a lot cheaper (or free) than a pro shop. THAT'S a big factor in quotes not just paint costs.

Most importantly find a place that is not an revolving door insurance depot- hurry up in, hurry up out. I find all my "car places" by asking other satisfied people and the owners of the auto businesses I patronize. "Who does good exhaust stuff?" "Go see John at Aladdin Muffler." This sort of thing.

$3500 is not really bad considering- yeah it's always more than we want to spend. Our cars are huge compared to most around today= lots more work.

The $3000 "driver" paint job is the term these days with generally $7000 for a near show finish. Are you going to go with the original burgundy?

Remember there's always Earl Schieb for about $400. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[55Connie]

Much of the cost of the paint job is the cost of the modern paint systems being used. For example, depending on the color and how you use the car, you don't need to use a two or three pack (base coat/clear coat). Some systems can't be color matched to your exact original color, but that's more of an issue in California than anywhere else.

I get good results with a one part Urethane, and I spray it myself at home. Since we're in California and restrictions abound, I actually have more paint system choices than body shops, which are heavily regulated. I'm careful to paint in components, section at a time, to avoid putting too much fog in the air at once. I also choose colors that I like from the chart so they can be matched later, except on my Packard, where I matched the Jade Green/Sea Foam Green to match the interior. I had no problem getting the right colors.

That said, even Earl Schieb will get up to over a grand with prep and careful masking. Labor isn't cheap, and paint is very expensive. The stuff I recently used for painting wheels ran $90/quart! And that does not include reducer or hardener.

Unless you need a show quality job, which will be big bucks, the home mechanic can do a perfectly acceptable job on a driver. The cost of the equipment and some practice would require that you plan to do more than one to make it cost effective. The prep work is the most important part, and also takes the most time. If you can do the prep, and have the car trailered to the body shop, it will save some money there as well. Some body shops will not guarantee the finish unless they do the prep and base coats (like primer), but there will be places where they will use your materials and prep.

This is indeed an area where you get what you pay for. You have to decide how the car is to be used and go from there. If you're getting itno judging the finish will need professional application. If you want a nice driver you have more options.

[Packard8]

One approach I?ve used is to do the bulk of the trim removal, stripping, prep etc myself (I work cheap?lol) and then taking it to a body shop with a booth for the final paint. I used a Miracle Paint shop in Alameda, Ca years ago. If you brought in a prepped car on a Sat afternoon with your own materials (paint, reducer, thinner etc) they would spray it for $75.00 and you came back to pick it up Mon AM early. They had a painter named Jose who did about 3 cars a day 6 days a week and he was GOOD!

Most of the art of laying on a good coat of paint is practice & ?touch??something the average DIY guy doesn?t have (at least not until he botches several jobs?<G>).

[Bill Kennedy]

I paid $4500 for a MG, so your quote sounds VERY reasonable! As some else else pointed out, these cars are HUGE (my 400 is the same length as a Chevy Suburban!!!)--I could probably put the MG in the trunk of the 400.

[Twitch]

So is THAT why there's this green haze around Magic Mountain? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

The prices that you fellow are quoting for paint jobs, makes me feel very happy, and leaving a big grin on my face, and a happy wallet. Two years ago Mike Watson of Watson"s Body Shop painted my Packard over a year period. Removed the chrome from around the windows sand blasted in the areas that needed it. Cut the rust away from both quarter panels, dog legs, and rockers panels. Hand formed all new panels and welded them in place and completed all the body work. Then completely painted the Packard under the hood the insides of the doors and door jams, plus a two tones paint job. He used urethane paint five coats of base and five coats of clear then buffed it out to a glass like finish. The total price came to two thousand five hundred dollars.

Right now Mike has my 66 Chevelle in garage for the winter prepairing my Chevelle for a new paint job. This paint job will be five coats of base and five coats of clear then rubbed out to a mirror finish. I will match Mike's work and quality against a body shop or person charging three timed the amounts that he has charged me to do both cars. Mike is charging about one grand to do the Chevelle

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Wow, You should get ol' Mike a Birthday Present. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[FRANKL]

packard53

this mike sounds like my kind of guy. what state is he in? sounds like i could ship my car both ways and still save $1000 and get a quality paint job.

i guess it is good to know most others are in the same situation as me.

i am removing all the chrome and have removed the front and rear windows to replace the rubber. i stripped all the rubber in the jams and trunk to replace. i am putting a new headliner after putting in new wiring so i took the interior door panels. i have stripped and painted a couple of cars using lacquer but got rid of most of the equipment due to lack of storage 10 years ago. i have not worked at all with these urethane systems.

i can understand why professionals would charge as much as they do as they can make so much money doing insurance body work. time is money. i talked to a guy today and he said he would take it and work on it as he had time but i would have to strip the paint and it would have to sit outside while he wasn't working on it. even then it will be 3000-4000.

i bought this car at a reasonable price for the condition in the fall but i could never recover all the money i put into it to bring it to where i want it to take to cruise nights. after you pay for parts and restoration supplies. and this is doing most of the work myself. by the time i'm done with reconditioning this car to use as a driver the best it would ever be is a "B", even with a new paint job. by then i'll have spent about twice the book value. it is a good thing we restore these cars because we love owning and driving them cause it is not a good investment.

that's the nature of the beast i guess. damn the expense, full speed ahead. don't tell my wife i said that though. what she don't know won't hurt me.

[Guest Albert]

I had my 54 Clipper Special done two tone a couple of years ago, and it cost me a brake jobs Labour for a friend who owns a body shop, but it went in completly nude, the only masking we did was the top once it was sprayed I supplyed the materials, and the car was all in Y2K primer and sanded.

[joe kastellic]

I have seen some paint jobs done by MACCO on some of my friends collector cars and I have to admit for the price(1000.00-1500.00) materials and labor and if your on a budget its a choice to consider. I have done some daily drivers where i have done the prep and masking, and sent them to MACCO and they came out really great!!! BTW the way MACCO only uses a one guart of paint!! and they spray cars only 2 times a week. Joe

[Twitch]

Frankie- how was the wiring harness? Sounds like you bought the one from RI Wire like you were saying. Was it a horrendous, time consuming mutha of a job? I know one day that I'll have to do it.

<img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[FRANKL]

twitch,

yes i did buy the wiring harness from RI wire and it was built very nicely. however, i liked the documentation better with a harness i bought from harnesses unlimited around 10 years ago for a 40 buick because they put numbers for the connections taped on the harness. this was easier to follow.

also, there were several connectors they did not include so i had to use the old ones. this worked out ok, i think. one of the connectors is the multi-pin connector from the steering column which was difficult to disassemble due to the age of the solder connections. i also had to reuse the front and rear connectors for the turn signal and brake lights.

i still have not gotten the entire system together as i had to order a new ammeter and overdrive relay. i have the gauge cluster out and will connect the rest of the dash connections once this is done. i figured i'll do all my troubleshooting after all connections in. the harness was well built and everything was positioned well.

let me know your address and i'll mail you a copy of all the documentation so you can see how it looks. my email is fjlaw@cox.net.

[Twitch]

My only thought on anyone painting any car in comfort of their own home or whatnot is simply the fact that one had better have previous experience before swallowing hard and shooting the juice to a beloved car in a virgin spray-a-thon. It ain't like using Krylon on the patio chairs.

[Guest Albert]

The only car i have done a full paint job on was a K-car i fixed up for a friend a number of years ago, and even the body shop where i did the spraying was quite surprised at the finish gloss it had, and even more surprised when the Painter found out i had sprayed it with only one quart of trimclad enamel and a single coat.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

When I repaint my '56 Clipper this Spring, I plan to try Epoxy primer. Has anyone used that before? If so, is it difficult to sand compaired to normal primer?

[Guest 51Patty400]

and here I thought I could just get a can of Tremclad for rust and go for it...lol

- Mark

[Aanderson44]

As a professional automotive miniaturist (read that a model car builder who does scale model auto's for money), I can tell you that of all the brands of touchup paints on the store shelves today (such as Duplicolor, Krylon, Sherwin-Williams/Martin Senour and Plasticote) only Plasticote remains as acrylic lacquer. All the rest have gone to what is called "Modified Enamel", which while smelling very much like lacquer, behaves quite differently.

Art

[Jack Harlin]

BH

Yes lacquer can still be purchased but its quite different than the original & some colors cant be mixed. All pigments arent available weve been told.

Unless they have changed, be carefull who you buy nitrocellulose from as it has already been reduced some before packaging. This may not be done any more, not sure since its been awhile that I have used any. Jack

[Restorer32]

About 10 years ago a customer of mine had us paint a 1932 Packard in Nitrocellulose Lacquer which he purchased from "a place in New Jersey". Three times he ordered paint, all three orders differed significantly in color.

[Twitch]

Re: 3 different color orders....It would be funny <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />if it wasn't so a sad and atypical of service/quality that we get in these times.

[Jack Harlin]

Restorer

Not being "cute" but I bet I know WHO. I know of this same thing happening with another painter. He called & got the run around bit, but no correction. Jack

[FRANKL]

on the subject of paint variation. how stringently are antiques and classics judged regarding the types of paints used and the differences with the old and new systems? i'm curious as i heard a lot of talk from the comentators on the Barrett jackson auction this week regarding a muscle car (hemi of-course) concerning the difference in the new body paint and the some in the engine compartment that they did not repaint. the shade was close but the metallic and depth of clear coat was obvious. it didn't affect the bidding as the car sold for 6 figures

i don't intend to enter my car in any car shows but i was wondering if this had an impact on the judging in the exclusive shows. the difference is very apparent between lacquer and the current urethane systems. most of the 50's paint on packards were early metallics (poly) but were quite different than todays metallics.

just curious if anyone had any experience on this.

[Jack Harlin]

BH

This is getting a little complicated. My son & I just two weeks ago visited a friends personal "junk yard 14 Packards outside" for any parts we wanted to remove, free. Inside 6 nearly finished. A 53 Pat. base & clear, Polaris Blue, was way off original cast. No fine metallic could be seen & the blue had a faded look. It never was a bright looking color, but this was way off.

A 56 with your color on an EX. 4dr. was just as bad, but excellent quality paint job. I wasnt about to ask any questions where or whose paint it was. His 49 Custom was black & very nice. Others were covered. He said the colors were scan matched from paint book chips. If you have different paint mfg. chips you know they vary some. Even so, why didnt the metallic show up in the Polaris blue. Im guessing only, did the scanner call for more white by passing the metallic & thats what gave a fadded look to the blue???

Your friend with the 5qts. of Du Pont nitro should have enough to paint his Pontiac but it will be close. As I remember 2 or 21/2 reduction & Should use red oxide primer for beter coverage. If he is courious he might take the # & see which one he has. GM used 3 different blacks.

Du Point came out with Acylic lac. called Lucite in middle of 58 & rest followed them. Was a night mare changing shop mixing machines, paint & new #s & formula books. Now look what we ended up with, a whole new system. Guess the robots like it better at the factory. Jack

[Jack Harlin]

FRANKL

the 40s & 50s paint with matallic wasnt as much for it to have a matallic look as it was to brighten up the color & get the shade more attractive. It was a very fine cut out of 4 different metallics available. It also lightened colors some where if white were used to lighten, the color would get muddy. Later colors used the course cuts but not in large amounts. This way the metallic seperated itself more & the matellic showed up better. Jack

[Guest bkazmer]

scan of old chip and computer match is not accurate for several reasons:

1)The chip was never a particularly good match of the actual paint on metal.

2)the chip has changed color with time

3) "computer matching" uses a spectrophotometer and pigment curves. It does not model "travel" or "flop" - the way paint changes with viewing angle. The spectro gets "confused" when metal flake scatters the light.

Even today, metallic matches are done by an expert (there is a color acuity test) by eye, with several tries needed.

As mentioned, older colors tend to use much finer metal, but these are available

[Jack Harlin]

You are correct on all counts. Thats why if you receive your order in more than one container you have to inter mix together before using.

That word "spectrophotometer" is at least a twenty five cent word I didnt know how to spell it. Paint chips were never made for matching. Jack

[Custom8coupe]

Polaris Blue was NOT a metallic color.

[Jack Harlin]

Thanks

You are right. I checked now instead of before, going on memory. Its Yosemite. Jack

[Jack Harlin]

BH

Matching metallics even when new was a challange, even though they were not weathered or oxidized. This could vary with two cars with same factory finish.

Reduction of paint & air pressure had a lot to do with the cast looking at it from an angle, it wasnt a perfect match but it looked matched facing it.

Higher air pressure drove the matillic lower & less pressure it floated more to the top thus giving a lighter cast. It was normal to use heavy reduction & a top grade thinner for last coats to reduce compounding. This would float the metallic more to the top & lighten the color, so you had to be carefull.

With a heavy metallic painting, spraying removed pannels at different times is not a good idea for that reason.

When doing collision work, & the perfect match isnt possable you have to cheat the eyes. You have to blend some color & fade it into adjoining panels. Jack

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Here is one that needs RePainting, Real Bad. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...91&rd=1

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I hear ya <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> and I Love a Good Flame Job, (on a '32 Ford), But those flames just Don't look Right, on a Packard, for Some reason. * There are Some Things, that are Just Wrong * <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

[Twitch]

Speaking of flame painting has anyone seen the new style of flames that actually look like fire instead of the old style we're all familiar with? On a black hot rod they are just awesome!

[Jack Harlin]

RickL

Reversing the colors would take the cold look away from the front, & probably be more balanced, if you like flames that is. Jack

[Twitch]

This is the only FIRE paint schemes I could find on the web. But imagine the entire front quarter of the car done this way. Anyhow it looks great.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Okay, Looks Great, When are you gonna get your Packard Painted like that? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have a Great picture of a Real-Flame paint job, but the file size limit has gone back to 100.k for attachments, for some reason, and the pic looks like crap at that low resolution, so I'm just Not going to post it. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

[Matt Harwood]

Honestly, it sounds quite reasonable, though there are a lot of things you can do to help cut costs.

First, do <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> the disassembly yourself. Not only will you save money on the hourly, but you can be sure the stuff won't get broken or lost in someone else's shop.

Second, strip all the paint yourself. If you're not doing a frame-off total repaint and just want the jambs and body painted, a set of sanding discs on a buffer will do the job in about a day. They sell a kit just for this at www.autobodystore.com. Get a selection of smaller wire wheels you can chuck into your drill for some of the nooks and crannies. <span style="font-style: italic">Not a hard job at all!</span> A body shop will likely use chemicals, which can come back to haunt you later.

Third, prime and straighten the body yourself. <span style="font-style: italic">Yes, you really can do this yourself!</span> There are no special skills here. If you screw up, put on some more primer and sand it again. The equipment is very inexpensive (a good HVLP primer gun is under $200 and epoxy and high-build primers are generally not nearly as hazardous to spray as urethane paints). A few home-made blocks and long sanding boards combined with a few weeks of spare time will get the body perfect. Just make sure you talk with your painter ahead of time to discuss what materials he wants to use so that there are no compatibility issues between what you apply and what he prefers to use. He may insist on doing a once-over final sand and sealer coat so that the finish is right, which is a good idea.

Honestly, all it takes is time. Instead of paying the body shop workers for their time--during which they're doing some unskilled labor with inexpensive tools--<span style="font-weight: bold">do it yourself.</span> Let them do the application of paint, which requires some skill and expensive equipment. If you find a painter willing to work with you in this way, you'll save a bundle and have a much nicer paint job than you could ordinarily afford. Pick up a book or two and learn about the techniques, but there's no magic involved and no special knowledge you need. It's just <span style="font-style: italic">time.</span>

I would also recommend using single-stage urethane. The clearcoat paints, while easy to work with and very durable, just don't seem to look right on the older cars. And take it easy on the metallic--too much will really change the way the car looks.

Usually the difference between a lousy paint job and an amazing one is nothing more than <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">time.</span></span> If your time is less expensive than theirs, then there's no reason not to do it yourself. Remember that good prep will make cheap paint look good. There's no paint that can make bad prep look good.

Here are more of my thoughts on the subject: Quality Amateur Restoration--An Oxymoron?

Hope this helps!