Where is the CCCA going?

[Su8overdrive]

Like most of you, I'd rather be out in the garage fussing with, in my case, a CCCA "Full Classic," reading about interesting vintage cars "Classic" or not, or looking at online car porn.

However, we've been reading posts decrying the insularity of the CCCA, the costs of their various affairs, most recently in this forum's thread entitled "Grand Classic Weekend in Dayton, Ohio, September 26-28."

 

 These are far from new laments.  Perhaps overdue for the CCCA to both get back to basics while parking the off-putting pomposity and constant hits for additional fees for self-serving events. 

 

 First,  "Grand Classic" for a gathering of old cars is comic opera pompous.  Sounds like something one of Margaret Dumont's or Billie Burke's characters, or Keeping Up Appearances' Hyancinth Bucket would attend.

  "Classic" should be lofty enough.

 

 "Classic" wasn't used to describe the automobiles many of us like until a Los Angeles attorney car buff, Robert J. Gottlieb, contributor to Motor Trend,  coined the term in one of his 1951 columns.  The next year, a group of greater NYC/tri-state 20- and 30-somethings, launched the Classic Car Club of America to cover the gas hog white elephants then available off the back row of any big city's used car lots simply as tires were unavailable.

 

  Twenty years later, in 1972, a Duesenberg claimed to be owned by Greta Garbo--who did not own, only drove it several times--became the first car to approach $100,000 at public auction.  Overnight, everyone, as Jimmy Durante would say, "wanted to get into the act."  This included boomers, tired of their "muscle" cars being second tiered.  Then Coke, pizza, drywall companies;  everyone glomming onto that now lucrative word, "classic."

 

   This is no fault of the CCCA, who was only using a benign term for cachet.  But "Classic" should be, even today, plenty enough elevation.  In a nation of 350 million people,  world of 8 1/5th billion, the CCCA remains moribund.  Atop the expensive meets, charges for everything in addition to annual membership, using terms like "Grand Classic" and "Full Classic" only further this downward spiraling insularity.

 

   Grand Classic sounds like Grand Poobah to many, harks to Ralph Kramden's and Ed Norton's membership in the International Order of Friendly Sons of the Raccoons (the International Order of Loyal Raccoons, the Royal Order of Raccoons), to which meetings they wore double-breasted military jackets with oversized epaulets on each shoulder, white shirt, dark tie, hat with raccoon tail. Norton's fellow sewer worker was the Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler, designated by three tails on his coonskin hat. 

 Monthly dues were $2. (The Honeymooners first aired the year the CCCA formed.)

 

   "Classic" is and always has been nebulous. Michael Lamm started Special Interest Autos in 1970 to embrace all older cars, "classic" or not. Clubs are fine, despite what Groucho said about them;  clearing houses for information, help, camaraderie.  CCCA member, SUNY English professor Robert Mehl did a wonderful pictorial in SIA comprised of pictures he and a friend took with homemade pinhole cameras on Pittsburgh's streets of what car-crazed boys in the '40s and early '50s called "fine cars."

 

    When you brandish meetings "Grand Classics" and are, as several posters lamented in the Dayton, Ohio Grand Classic announcement about such occasions in general -- the Dayton encounter promises to be a step in the right direction -- not always welcoming to "classic-"owning non-members who'd like to park and hobnob, little wonder the CCCA is static at best.   Not everyone wants to cough up the expense incurred by steak and rubber chicken dinners at Marriott hotels where trophy trading and self-anointing  the main course.

 

    Some of us wonder at the "of America" in the title.  Why? The CCCA lauds equally cars from both sides of the Atlantic and Channel.  Is our patriotism so tenuous?  Isn't Classic Car Club enough?

 

   You'll also note that in addition to original cost and style, sheer size seems to be CCCA attribute, given the paucity of vintage sport cars.

 

   Is there too large a divide in the club?   The biggest by far CCCA thread, 62 bulging pages, is devoted to the overblown, faintly ridiculous, 115 hp (180 if blower engaged for no more than 20 seconds), 2 3/4-ton  Mercedes 500/540K.  But the most widely owned car by membership is the 1941-47 Cadillac, sharing every panel with Pontiac, offering HydraMatic, enabling an old-time upscale golf cart  for increasingly decrepit members. 

 

    "Full Classic."  As apart from Partial Classic, 62% Classic?

 

   BTW, we are hardly suggesting the CCCA allow newer or lesser cars, or deviate from their original mission statement,  just as the Horseless Carriage Club remains devoted to strictly pre-1916 automobiles.

 

    Reading the frequent objections the past couple years on these forums,  it seems many including CCCAers decry the pricey, exclusionary soirees,  while wanting to attract new members.  The Horseless Carriage Club's most active, enthused sticklers for historic accuracy are often 20- and 30-somethings.

Edited September 20 by Su8overdrive (see edit history)

[Lee H]

I wouldn’t join, if I were you.

[Su8overdrive]

You miss the point, Lee.

[alsancle]

Every club has its quirks, cliques, and jerks.  It is the nature of the human condition.   I had a hair across my fanny for years against a certain club I was sure screwed my dad (I still think they did) but got over it eventually and I'm still a member.   My rule with all these things is that I defer to the people that are doing the actual work.   Is the CCCA run perfectly?  Probably not, but as car clubs struggle  I appreciate they people doing the work to keep them going, even if it is not exactly the way I would do it.

[8E45E]

The Milestone Car Society, formed in the 1970's comes to mind.  It was supposedly formed to be a postwar continuation of the CCCA of potentially, and already collectible cars from 1948 through 1964, at first, and then later until 1968, if I remember correctly.  As far as I recall, it was formed with the help of Richard Langworth and others, and dissolved sometime in the early '80s.  There was considerable controversy at first when the 1965 Mustang was not on their list as it was a '1965' model, and not a 'late '64' as some like to refer the early cars to, though extending the cutoff year to 1968 more or less solved that issue.  The MCS was active on the eastern area during the malaise era for a good few years when mid-to-late '70's cars were horrid to look at.

 

Craig 

 

 

[jcrow]

What great, concise comments by "Al". 

 

Clubs are run by people, with their faults and biases. Most work for free,  sometimes doing a lot and

often with little help. As Lincoln said  "you can't make all the People happy all the time". 

 

Instead of the constant criticism of those who do the work, why not chip in and guide these clubs the

direction that we think is better?  Knowing what is "right" or "better" and doing nothing about it is worse

than knowing nothing and doing nothing.

 

Just my view.

 

Johnny

[Walt G]

On 9/24/2024 at 8:36 PM, jcrow said:

why not chip in and guide these clubs the

direction that we think is better? 

I did for decades, formed a region, was elected to the national board,attended events and when I had open heart surgery and was not allowed by my Dr.s to attend anything was requested by the CCCA President to resign from the national board. Few of the other board members objected , so resign I did, from the board and my membership in the club after 45 years where I had contributed to their magazine for over 30 years. CCCA does not welcome people with open arms unless you own a car - do not promote or educate general car collectors to see and understand the value of the luxury cars of the era. Sad but that is the way it is and the attitude that remains..........

[jcrow]

Walt,

I know nothing of your experience or the details over which you are obviously upset.

 

But, if you thought that Club was worth your effort for 45 years then it must have

offered something for at least 44 of those years.  Should board members who

are unable to fulfill their positions because of serious health issues be asked

to step aside......... I have no idea......I can see both sides. But I would guess that

those who were on the board then are probably gone...... and as happens with

long term clubs, new members pick up the slack. 

 

Again it seems that you have strong ideas, maybe good or bad about how the club

should grow and change. Those ideas will never execute themselves. You can sit

by feeling harmed (which maybe you were) or step up and offer your ideas and

efforts. Only then does it seem fair to be unhappy with the current state of affairs.

 

Just my two cents

 

Johnny

 

[motoringicons]

Well put, Johnny. 

[Walt G]

One of the board members "then" is President now. No change . I stand by my convictions - I tried and did contribute beyond my annual dues but was dismissed when health did not allow me to participate in person. SO how is that fair? Meetings had been held and members of the board who could not attend were heard via audio communication at board meetings. I even suggested that until I could travel someone could take my place "in person" but that was not considered . So I guess that I am still wrong. Are you really putting yourself in my place to see it from my point of view - those of you who gave a thumbs up????

[Su8overdrive]

Some of you fellows either have short memories or have not been around long.  Walt Gosden is one of those genuine rarities;  an automotive  h i s t o r i a n.   Walt didn't and doesn't just write about vintage/Classic cars, but unearths period photos and asides about coachbuilders of the era.  His knowledge is nonpareil.  Walt's features were staples in the CCCA quarterly, The Classic Car,  as well as national magazines including the respected and much missed Special Interest Autos, published by Hemmings Motor News.   And Walt was already doing so before I involved in this alleged hobby half a century ago.

 

 Walt well merits your respect, and thanks.    Do a little homework before posting.  Spare us the clueless "get involved" gee whiz pep talk, reactionary drivel.  You're missing Walt's, and my points.  Many of the same CCCA "leaders" are still non-leading, hence a generally moribund club.  If they're happy with self-congratulatory chicken dinners at Marriott's and trading trophies, so be it.  Water seeks its own level.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:28 AM by Su8overdrive (see edit history)

[jcrow]

Well not to drag this on too long, but I have gone out of my way to be respectful of Walt. In fact

my comments were made to help Walt considering joining back in to something that by his own

words he loved for 44 years. While I am not any part of the Club leadership, I have been a member

for over fifty years, so I have the experience of seeing both the good and the bad. I am fairly well

recognized as a complainer about those things that I think are wrong. But I also understand that

sitting around complaining only and putting others down seldom fixes much. 

 

Johnny

[prewarnut]

...and of course now-a-days with Zoom, Microsoft Teams, etc allowing real time video conferencing there should no longer be any such excuse. I've had job interviews, contract negotiations, troubleshooting, presentations, lectures all by this modality in the last 5 years.

[Packard enthus.]

Aw...come on...folks.   This hobby, this Club...the world - the universe is not what it was.  Things change.  Roll with it or get rolled over.  "CLASSIC"...?   We (meaning folks my age) took the word "CLASSIC" because it had a clear and distinctive meaning in our world.   Clearly defined in the dictionaries of our area.  Go try and find a dictionary printed in the last 50 years or so that bares any resemblance to our world then.   "Something unique, of rare and distinct quality"...."an engineering exaggeration...magnificently over-done".   "Form follows function"....so that a headlight shell, a fender, a running board, confirms to the Roman and Greek design theory - straight angles".

     

But that was then.   It would never have occurred to us to call a "streamlined" car a "classic".   Well...along came the used car dealers and body shops to discover "tacking on" the word "CLASSIC" would help "move" an old Cord or Lincoln Continental...and we needed membership, so the next thing you know we diluted  the Club's purpose.

 

But the world did not end!   I recall the fuss over the admission by the Club to late 1930's and 1941 Cadillac 60 S to "classc" status. Oh..horrors...the "camel got his nose under the tent".   

 

Yes, i was part of the group opposing that...because I owned one at the time.  An outstanding car that had an all-steel body, hydraulic brakes, pressurized cooling system,  independent front suspension - could be ordered with "factory air",  climate controlled creature comforts - an automatic transmission with a final drive ratio that permitted effortless cruising at 80 mph plus.  Power windows!    Try that in your "452"....! So yes, we argued that those outstanding cars were WAY too "modern" in both design and technical aspects to be considered our historical purpose.

 

Well, one walk thru a supermarket will find it is harder each year to find any product someone is trying to "unload" that is not called "classic".

 

But so what?   At recent car shows, I have had a lot of fun meeting up and renewing friendships, discussing how the planet is going to fall into the sun.   When the show breaks up,  wonder of wonders...my '38 Packard Twelve starts and runs just as well even tho some guy parked his "classic Chevvy pick up" next to it.

 

Face it - things change. In the 1950's, we were invited to an old guy's ranch who liked stage coaches and early "brass" cars.  There was even a club for the horse and buggy crowd.   We in the CCCA did have fun joint meets with the HCCA crowd!  But many of us sniffed at some...well....ewwww....a forty year old vehicle - who would actually want that...didn't even come with radios...? (in that era our cars in the CCCA were typically around twenty five year old cars.

 

Bottom line...WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES....DIFFERENT PEOPLE TODAY WITH DIFFERENT LIFE EXPERIENCES!    ACCEPT IT...AND ENJOY THE IMPORTANT THING...THE SUN WILL COME UP TOMORROW MORNING !

 

(that's me in 1958......)

 

Edited Thursday at 02:00 PM by Packard enthus. (see edit history)