Sad ending for Hispano-Suiza J12

[arcticbuicks]

Federal law.... §383.91(a)(1) USA
Combination vehicle (Group A)—Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).

[arcticbuicks]

the trailer companies are going away from trailers our size as bumper hitch that came in even longer versions ......and with good reason.....i just bought a new one 42 feet and gooseneck and much safer and feels better

[arcticbuicks]

11 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Nope……as far as I know it’s only Califunny that has limits like that. Since I’m legal in my state, I can run through and of the lower 48 without issue. I think the speed limit in CA is also 55mph. I try and never tow there unless absolutely necessary. My trailer is a bumper pull and it’s 37 from front to back……a big boy and definitely not easy to deal with in many areas. I love the safety and stability it provides……also with the triple set up it stops about 200 percent better than a dual axel unit. 

 

 

I think your wrong on being legal towing that with what you say,its federal law 

[edinmass]

My truck, trailer, and load are always under the 26k gross number……so it’s not an issue. The trailer is rated for a huge number, but actual running weight is never near the upper end limit. Of course you need to keep an eye on the tow vehicle numbers. Car and trailer never exceed 14,500……….that allows you a truck GVW of 11,500.

 

Over the years I have been stopped a handful of times by State Police and DOT. Never had an issue. I bypass ALL weigh stations as I have private non commercial plates on my truck, and I am “towing for recreational use” and not for hire or commercial purposes. If you hauling as a business……..that’s an entirely different issue.

 

 

 

Edited September 10 by edinmass (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

wrong....DOT goes by "assigned" GVW........not the actual weight or how much load you have in it .......I travel many states with very similar unit and been checked at scales etc ......its also stated in the rules........you are towing a triple axle 7000 lb each axle .......that is a assigned gvw of 21,000 lbs and gvw will be stated on your data plate sticker on vehicles........plus the weight of truck

Edited September 10 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

recreational vehicles USA

Additionally, nearly a third of the states, including Arkansas, Georgia, Iowa, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio, Rhode Island, Washington, and Wisconsin, require vehicles weighing more than 10,000 lbs to stop at highway weigh stations.

[edinmass]

DOT only applies to commercial hauling…………

 

Here is the motorhome and trailer. It carries four CCCA big classics and is not required to stop at weigh stations. It’s exempt as a private non commercial use. It’s insured as a motorhome. It’s built as a motorhome. And the title on it says motorhome. Never an issue and it’s been in almost all the 48 lower states……….this rig hauls our stuff every year to Pebble, ACD, Amelia, ect….. can haul six small and light cars or four big boy toys.

 

Edited September 10 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

3 minutes ago, arcticbuicks said:

recreational vehicles USA

Additionally, nearly a third of the states, including Arkansas, Georgia, Iowa, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio, Rhode Island, Washington, and Wisconsin, require vehicles weighing more than 10,000 lbs to stop at highway weigh stations.

Nope……no need to stop. Been there, done that. Lived in Massachusetts for fifty years…..NEVER once stopped.

 

DOT rules govern COMMERCIAL vehicles, NOT private vehicles.

 

Edited September 10 by edinmass (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

just because you do not .....does not make you legal.....that is federal law and state weigh scale laws under DOT....it is the same for everybody to follow the laws 

[edinmass]

40 minutes ago, arcticbuicks said:

just because you do not .....does not make you legal.....that is federal law and state weigh scale laws under DOT....it is the same for everybody to follow the laws 

 

It’s legal……..read the DOT regulations………..interstate commerce is what the rules state. Recreational uses are exempt. Ever see a desiel pusher at a weigh station? Nope, no special license required. Do you think we would put four Duesenbergs in a trailer and subject them to problems or issues without researching it? We read the rules and comply. 

Edited September 10 by edinmass (see edit history)

[zepher]

All this talk about weight is why I refuse to give up my Class A CDL.

I can drive pretty much anything and be legal no matter where I go.

 

And, I trust that Ed has done more than enough research to stay legal with the vehicles he carries.

[arcticbuicks]

i see that this is more about bragging about what he carries .......actually all bragging seems to be more the topic in any discussion  always......i trust the copied quotes from DOT and state laws .........not what Ed says Zephyr..............have at er boys

Edited September 10 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[Grimy]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

I think the speed limit in CA is also 55mph. I try and never tow there unless absolutely necessary.

Yes.  You can get by with 60 or 61 but absolutely no more than that.  Illinois used to limit trailers to 55 but those signs went away about 15 yrs ago.  @edinmass it's fine with me if you don't trailer here in my state, but I'll be looking for your Yugo as usual when you stop by for adult beverages.  🙂 

[kar3516]

I’ve been stopped by a Texas DPS officer driving a Ford F350 special ordered as a 10,000 GVWR vehicle pulling a loaded open gooseneck trailer built to 20,000 GVWR specs but titled as a 15,900 GVWR trailer; both vehicles titled in our company name under commercial ownership.  He was pumped for a full commercial DOT inspection but I told him we were exempt due to being under the 26,000 combined GVWR limit and not (ever) being for hire.  I had a large antique truck properly secured with chains and boomers on the trailer at that time.  He asked to see both vehicle stickers and then agreed.  Said he would do an inspection for my benefit only and then sent me on my merry way.  Only thing he found was the attachment method for my trailer brake emergency wire cable.  So even for a commercially titled vehicle he recognized the 26,000 GVWR exemption.  I did tell him it was my company and I was using both vehicles for my own use hauling the antique truck I had purchased; again not for hire.  My latest F350 is titled in my personal name and my enclosed 12,000 GVWR trailer is titled in my personal name as well to avoid any future commercial confusion.

Kent

[Tph479]

All this talk about trailers has me thinking about the stories that my old friend who used to own this J12 would tell me. He talked about how in the mid 1950's when he first seen a guy trailer a brass car to a show and it was being pulled by a Classic era Packard and everyone was like "what's with the guy who trailered his car?"  He said everyone drove their car to meets at that time and trailering a car was unheard of in the area. Then he told the story about the first time he seen a guy trailer a car to a meet in an "Enclosed trailer" and all the talk at the meet was "what is up with the guy trailering an old car in an Enclosed trailer!" and that everyone was checking out the enclosed trailer all day. He finally ended the story laughing about how a local guy with a trucking company later showed up to another show with his Duesenberg in one of his enclosed semi's and that it really blew everyone's mind. 

Edited September 11 by Tph479
typo (see edit history)

[Grimy]

4 hours ago, arcticbuicks said:

just because you do not .....does not make you legal.....that is federal law and state weigh scale laws under DOT....it is the same for everybody to follow the laws 

 

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

It’s legal……..read the DOT regulations………..interstate commerce is what the rules state. Recreational uses are exempt.

Ed is right, see 49CFR 390.3(f)(3):

(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to—

(1) All school bus operations as defined in §390.5 except for the provisions of §§391.15(e) and (f), 392.80, and 392.82 of this chapter;

(2) Transportation performed by the Federal government, a State, or any political subdivision of a State, or an agency established under a compact between States that has been approved by the Congress of the United States;

(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation and not in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;

I was a DOT aviation hazmat specialist and aviation security enforcer for 26 years.  Any get-out-of-jail-free card is always in the exceptions--look for them right after applicability.

[zepher]

4 hours ago, arcticbuicks said:

i see that this is more about bragging about what he carries .......actually all bragging seems to be more the topic in any discussion  always......i trust the copied quotes from DOT and state laws .........not what Ed says Zephyr..............have at er boys

 

Ed doesn't need to brag about what he does or what he's done.

He has the knowledge, experience and resume to back it all up.

If Ed was bragging, you'd know it.

[Grimy]

And by the way, I always keep a printed copy of the first couple of pages of 49CFR 390 with my truck and trailer registration docs, with 49 CFR 350.3(f)(3) highlighted.

[kar3516]

3 minutes ago, Grimy said:

 

Ed is right, see 49CFR 390.3(f)(3):

(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to—

 

(1) All school bus operations as defined in §390.5 except for the provisions of §§391.15(e) and (f), 392.80, and 392.82 of this chapter;

 

(2) Transportation performed by the Federal government, a State, or any political subdivision of a State, or an agency established under a compact between States that has been approved by the Congress of the United States;

 

(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation and not in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;

 

 

I was a DOT aviation hazmat specialist and aviation security enforcer for 26 years.  Any get-out-of-jail-free card is always in the exceptions--look for them right after applicability.

Hear hear!!!!

[Grimy]

1 minute ago, zepher said:

 

Ed doesn't need to brag about what he does or what he's done.

He has the knowledge, experience and resume to back it all up.

If Ed was bragging, you'd know it.

Just because some of us rag on him a lot doesn't mean we don't respect what he does and has done--that's actually why we do so!

[kar3516]

Just now, Grimy said:

And by the way, I always keep a printed copy of the first couple of pages of 49CFR 390 with my truck and trailer registration docs, with 49 CFR 350.3(f)(3) highlighted.

I hadn’t thought of that; good idea!

[arcticbuicks]

31 minutes ago, Grimy said:

 

Ed is right, see 49CFR 390.3(f)(3):

(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to—

 

(1) All school bus operations as defined in §390.5 except for the provisions of §§391.15(e) and (f), 392.80, and 392.82 of this chapter;

 

(2) Transportation performed by the Federal government, a State, or any political subdivision of a State, or an agency established under a compact between States that has been approved by the Congress of the United States;

 

(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation and not in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;

 

 

I was a DOT aviation hazmat specialist and aviation security enforcer for 26 years.  Any get-out-of-jail-free card is always in the exceptions--look for them right after applicability.

you have combined two separate issues .....my statement you quote was in response to being required to stop at Ma. scales..........RVs over 10,000 lbs are required to stop at scales in Ma.........anyways I have better things i can be doing ,when hauling in the US I follow the laws with heavy unit

Edited September 11 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[Grimy]

1 hour ago, arcticbuicks said:

you have combined two separate issues .....my statement you quote was in response to being required to stop at Ma. scales..........RVs over 10,000 lbs are required to stop at scales in Ma.........anyways I have better things i can be doing ,when hauling in the US I follow the laws with heavy unit

Uh, "DOT" is generally construed as federal, although some states call their agencies DOT as well.  As to scales, that's largely state:  In California, you must pull your U-Haul dually into the scales, but you won't get tossed unless you're overgrossed or there's a glaringly obvious equipment violation.  For most of us, if one is exempt from FEDERAL DOT regs, most of the state requirements (except equipment and weight limits) go away.

[zepher]

In a private vehicle, I have never stopped at the scales and I have never been pulled over for bypassing them.

Didn't matter if I was in a moving truck or pulling a large trailer.

Last time I went through the scales I was driving a trash truck for someone that had won it at an auction out of state and I drove it back to his shop in a different state.

[8E45E]

12 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

It’s legal……..read the DOT regulations………..interstate commerce is what the rules state. Recreational uses are exempt. Ever see a desiel pusher at a weigh station? Nope, no special license required. Do you think we would put four Duesenbergs in a trailer and subject them to problems or issues without researching it? We read the rules and comply. 

You are correct for a private carrier.  I do know in Canada, Ontario and British Columbia does have some strange rules that also apply to private carriers, including having the max. GVW labeled and visible on the outside of the vehicle, for one.  As far as I know, a private RV does not have to stop at every weighscale anywhere, but a patrol officer CAN pull one over to be weighed if he suspects the total GVW of the unit exceeds the maximum allowable.   Then the owner could face fines, same as a commercial carrier would if he exceeded the maximum.

 

Craig

[arcticbuicks]

Each one of us have our heresay opinions like "nope"...or "never have " etc....but if you google the laws or call .very simple to see it comes up multiple times which states require what to stop at scales....

Here is a breakdown of basic RV weigh station rules by state:

Stops Required for Vehicles Above a Set Weight Limit

Some states require vehicles over a certain weight to stop at weigh stations. If your RV or or vehicle combination greater than that amount, a stop at the weigh station is necessary.

Although certain states specifically exclude RV’s, most states with a set weight limit do not specify the type of vehicle, which is why it’s important to know your vehicle’s approximate GVW as you travel.

States that require any RV or RV and vehicle combination over 10,000 lbs. to stop include

• Alaska
• Arkansas
• Georgia
• Iowa
• Louisiana
• Massachusetts
• Minnesota
• Nevada
• New Jersey
• New York

Several other states have similar requirements, but only for vehicle or vehicle combination over 26,000 lbs., including:

• Colorado, where you are first required to get a clearance, but are then free to travel throughout the state
• New Mexico
• Oregon
•  

 

RVs,private recreational vehicles

Exceptions to the RuleAdditionally, nearly a third of the states, including Arkansas, Georgia, Iowa, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio, Rhode Island, Washington, and Wisconsin, require vehicles weighing more than 10,000 lbs to stop at highway weigh stations.

Edited September 11 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

Anyways.....very sad loss for the J12 car .....perhaps we can all learn from it also to be safer with more adequate protection and hauling of such valuable goods.

Safe trailers with proper insurance and licence etc .

Maintenance and safety equipment it so important we can all see also when handling or hauling such cars .

Some really good points came up from comments I think.

[BobinVirginia]

Exclusions for the 10,000lb according to the DOT website. 

Generally, most here on the forum fall into private use carrying their own goods as stated in first. I’ve never seen a non commercial or private hauler without a DOT# at a weigh station. Not that I’m advising folks to pull 35,000lbs with a 3/4 ton diesel just because it can. 
Be safe out there folks. Maintain your trailers as they’re an extension of your truck.