Tom Devoe Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) All, trying to ID this car which belonged to my Great Grandfather. Not enough in the pic for me to go by, and I am really not familiar with this era. Located in Trenton NJ. Thanks!!! Edited March 4 by Tom Devoe (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) Oldsmobile? Edited March 4 by keiser31 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Devoe Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 Researching, Fenders and hood look Cadillac to me. I'm still looking. Left hand steering like a modern car, so another clue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 9 minutes ago, Tom Devoe said: Researching, Fenders and hood look Cadillac to me. I'm still looking. Left hand steering like a modern car, so another clue? That hub cap looks like Olds, but could be something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 21 minutes ago, keiser31 said: That hub cap looks like Olds, but could be something else. My first thought was Ols as well but - the grease cap is reminiscent of Olds but the hubs are not - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varun Coutinho Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tom Devoe said: All, trying to ID this car which belonged to my Great Grandfather. Not enough in the pic for me to go by, and I am really not familiar with this era. Located in Trenton NJ. Thanks!!! 1911 Firestone-Columbus (Torpedo) 1910 - 1911 Photo's attached (Best available) Manufacturer : 1907 - 1915 The Columbus Buggy Co. - Columbus, Ohio. Edited March 4 by Varun Coutinho (see edit history) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Very few cars of this era had left hand drive, especially those in the medium/high price bracket. I wonder if the mystery car should look like this - 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 The whole right hand and left hand driven thing can get really tricky. Between many nations, cultural backgrounds, traditions, and a hundred conflicting reasons the driver's position has been all over the place for well over a hundred years now. The two excellent photos that Varun C posted in this case add to the confusion. One, the similar car with no front doors may be a year earlier, or simply a slightly different model, but appears to be right hand side driven, and the radiator script appears to be correctly oriented indicating that the car is in fact right hand side driven. The car show display photo on the other hand shows two apparently left side driven cars in the clearly marked, flagged by pennants, and correctly oriented Firestone Columbus display. The US built automobiles mostly began as right side driven in the early days, with numerous notable exceptions. Autocar about 1902 and for a few years, offered cars either right side or left side driven, with either steering wheel or tiller type steering. The Sears Autobuggy hit the market in 1908 as a left side driven tiller steered high wheeler. Ford somewhat lead the way toward left side driven with the model T hitting the market also late in 1908. Other automakers were following suit soon after. Around 1910 to 1912 quite few marques were switching to the left side of the car. By 1915, most US built cars were left side driven. Of general interest, is that in the US, there never was a law requiring one side or the other. The OP photo could go either way. I haven't spotted anything in it to determine if the photo is oriented correctly or not? Thank you again Varun C for identifying so many of these cars in photos! You are the master. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 11 minutes ago, wayne sheldon said: The whole right hand and left hand driven thing can get really tricky. Between many nations, cultural backgrounds, traditions, and a hundred conflicting reasons the driver's position has been all over the place for well over a hundred years now. The two excellent photos that Varun C posted in this case add to the confusion. One, the similar car with no front doors may be a year earlier, or simply a slightly different model, but appears to be right hand side driven, and the radiator script appears to be correctly oriented indicating that the car is in fact right hand side driven. The car show display photo on the other hand shows two apparently left side driven cars in the clearly marked, flagged by pennants, and correctly oriented Firestone Columbus display. The US built automobiles mostly began as right side driven in the early days, with numerous notable exceptions. Autocar about 1902 and for a few years, offered cars either right side or left side driven, with either steering wheel or tiller type steering. The Sears Autobuggy hit the market in 1908 as a left side driven tiller steered high wheeler. Ford somewhat lead the way toward left side driven with the model T hitting the market also late in 1908. Other automakers were following suit soon after. Around 1910 to 1912 quite few marques were switching to the left side of the car. By 1915, most US built cars were left side driven. Of general interest, is that in the US, there never was a law requiring one side or the other. The OP photo could go either way. I haven't spotted anything in it to determine if the photo is oriented correctly or not? Thank you again Varun C for identifying so many of these cars in photos! You are the master. Sometimes one way of telling which was round a photo should be is the way men's coats button up but in this case I don't think that is of any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 15 hours ago, nzcarnerd said: Very few cars of this era had left hand drive, especially those in the medium/high price bracket. I wonder if the mystery car should look like this - I don't think it's a reverse photo. Check out, on the original photo, the side of the button holes on his suit jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 4 minutes ago, hook said: I don't think it's a reverse photo. Check out, on the original photo, the side of the button holes on his suit jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Devoe Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 (edited) Wow, the knowledge on this site is exceptional!!! I do think Varun C is correct. Everything seems to match in the photo he posted, including the steering side. I do know that the photo is not reversed, as I have 3 different of the same group, but this one was the best of the car. I will need to research the Firestone - Columbus automobiles. They must have been available in NJ, yes? Family lore say's he was loaded, and had one of the first cars in Trenton. Not sure if this is it though. Thanks all for the help!!! What would the cable be that crosses the horn tube (in front of the drivers door)? Speedometer cable? Would a speedometer have been an accessory in 1911? Edited March 5 by Tom Devoe (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Devoe Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 (edited) Edited March 5 by Tom Devoe (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layden B Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Yes speedometer cable driving from a gear on the front wheel. On expensive cars the speedometer would have usually been standard equipment. Others usually offered a speedometer " at list", that is you paid list price and they would include installation, either from the factory or installed by the dealer in the field. Thus many makes of antique cars have no standard or stock speedometer, it was what was available or they could get the best deal on ( dealer purchased at wholesale and sold the the car owner at list price). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 9 hours ago, Tom Devoe said: What would the cable be that crosses the horn tube (in front of the drivers door)? Speedometer cable? Would a speedometer have been an accessory in 1911? Mounted the way this one is, it appears to be an after-market speedometer, or even may have been only an odometer, something also commonly available in those days. I can't tell for certain, but it appears that whatever it is may be mounted where the body meets the firewall. Factory installed speedometers were almost always mounted on the firewall itself in those days. In those days, the way cars were assembled, being mounted on the firewall before the body was installed simplified the installation. Mounted up high and in the corner that way is more likely an afterthought, and therefore likely an after-market accessory. I am not sure just when speedometers became available, but I have seen advertising for them from around 1906. Even most high end marques offered them only as an option for several years. Some automakers began making the speedometer standard equipment about 1910. One would need to research each make individually to know whether speedometers were or were not available from the factory for a given car or year model during the 1910s. Interesting to note and compare, Ford's model T did not include a speedometer its first year introduced late in 1908 as a 1909 model. They were of course available after-market. However, in spite of the Ford being a low price yet quality leader, for 1910 model year, the speedometer became standard equipment on the model T! It remined as such for a few years until a funny thing happened. Roughly five different companies produced speedometers for Ford, but as Ford's production kept increasing faster than had ever before been seen in the automobile world, All those companies could not keep up with the Ford factory's demands! In 1914 and early 1915, the speedometer was considered "standard equipment" on a new Ford, however, a customer could save $5 by agreeing to a "speedometer delete". By the end of 1915, Ford dropped the speedometer as standard equipment, and passed the savings on to the customers as he kept dropping the price of his cars while improvements in production kept making them cheaper to build. Ford left the cars without a speedometer through the end of model T production in 1927. After-market sellers made a good business of providing speedometers for some Ford owners for more than a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Devoe Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 (edited) A couple more photos found which show the speedometer routing on earlier cars (1910?), and one with the same horn tube routing (although a different style horn). Does anyone know if there are any survivors of this model? I'd love to see one. Edited March 7 by Tom Devoe (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varun Coutinho Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Stumbled upon this, captioned 'Antique RPPC man automobile 1913 Ohio plates people porch Real Photo Postcard' which appears to be a 1910 Model 76-A with custom front doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 11 hours ago, Varun Coutinho said: appears to be a 1910 Model 76-A with custom front doors. Those front doors (or fore doors?) are interesting. I have seen a few early automobiles with after-marker fore doors on them that looked really nice. These on the other hand have numerous exposed screws or bolt-heads showing around both the door and its mounting panel I can't recall seeing any like that before? Pure speculation. They were probably custom made to fit the car by a local carriage builder? Still, I would expect that they should have done a more neatly done job of it. Interesting photo of a nice car regardless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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