dibarlaw Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) This is about my 1925 Standard but the ball studs should be the same for your 1927. I believe I will do a procedural story on the replacement of my very bad tie rod ball studs. It got more involved than I wanted. But one of the most important things in our Buick hobby world is SPARE PARTS. Also, interesting that the drag link on the axle I acquired from Oregon ..... was a different design than my 1925 below. The new stud on the right compared to the old left side stud. I measured the new sphere diameter as .995. The largest unworn area on the original was 1.000. Some areas over .025" loss of material. The rest had flat spots and looked more like a bowling pin. The much better leather cover retaining springs and covers I robbed from the Oregon Tie rod. Both of what was on My 1925 "Beulah" were thoroughly mangled. Note the anti-rattle device that was clamped to my tie rod. While cleaning everything up I found that the studs and cups in the Oregon axle were in much better shape Oregon set. Still showing wear, not perfect but serviceable and closer to a sphere in shape than what was in mine. My cups were pretty scored. I got the right side off last night and it was worse than the left side. What was on my car. So, I have the very good Oregon covers, springs, newly made leathers and cups with the new ball studs installed. The tie rod was also bent a bit. Hey.... my son Mark thought that I needed a Hydraulic press. Now things have been straightened out. Finished installation. Edited May 28 by dibarlaw spelling (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 27 Author Share Posted May 27 16 hours ago, David Stewart said: Hi You should be pleased that the engine is nearly ready to run. You did a great job. I have a question...Do you have any dimensions for the Brougham 4 door body..Fisher service manual not much use, I'm afraid. The roof on mine is in such terminal shape, rot and wood returned to dust. The distance between the 'B' posts and the 'C' posts across the car. The side roof rails are gone, so I have to find the shape in both planes. 'A' posts are now duplicated as are 'B's. Over the years the roof bows have sunk so as to force the rails outwards. Any help would be much appreciated. David, I’ll get some dimensions for you. Keeping in mind my front doors are off and the body is sitting on 6x6’s and not perfectly flat. Might be best to wait until I’m bolted back on the chassis- but I’ll get you what I can 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 27 Author Share Posted May 27 6 hours ago, dibarlaw said: This is about my 1925 Standard but the balll studs should be the same for your 1927. I believe I will do a procedural story on the replacement of my very bad tie rod ball studs. It got more involved than I wanted. But one of the most important things in our Buick hobby world is SPARE PARTS. Also, interesting that the drag link on the axle I acquired from Oregon ..... was a different design than my 1925 below. The new stud on the right compared to the old left side stud. I measured the new sphere diameter as .995. The largest unworn area on the original was 1.000. Some areas over .025" loss of material. The rest had flat spots and looked more like a bowling pin. The much better leather cover retaining springs and covers I robbed from the Oregon Tie rod. Both of what was on My 1925 "Beulah" were thoroughly mangled. Note the anti-rattle device that was clamped to my tie rod. While cleaning everything up I found that the studs and cups in the Oregon axle were in much better shape Oregon set. Still showing wear, not perfect but serviceable and closer to a sphere in shape than what was in mine. My cups were pretty scored. I got the right side off last night and it was worse than the left side. What was on my car. So, I have the very good Oregon covers, springs, newly made leathers and cups with the new ball studs installed. The tie rod was also bent a bit. Hey.... my son Mark thought that I needed a Hydraulic press. Now things have been straightened out. Finished installation. Looking forward a series /post on these procedures. Just about ready to get into these areas. Thank you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 This weekend I separated the rear end/ suspension from the chassis. First came removing the break lever assembly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 Dropped the rear end- ended up separating the rear suspension blocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 Rear leaf springs removed- passenger side front shackle is pretty jammed up and did not want to come off- soaking it on kroil and we’ll try removing it another night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 As all there parts are coming off it is really apparent that constant lubrication of all grease points is not optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 Front end and rear leaf springs on a cart now - easy to move around and keep out of the way. Photo is before I put the springs on the bottom shelf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 Rear end is on a set of dollys- again for ease of moving around the shop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 So here is the reason this whole project took the path it has… the front of the frame members between side and front motor mounts were “ repaired” at some time in the past. Repaired poorly. Somebody welded in some c channels and burned out holes in them to accept parts that mounted in those locations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 I removed the c channels tonight- wasn’t hard to do! They were booger welded along the top edge and tacked in one location at the bottom. I removed the lower sections of c channel and left the top intact so I could go to the next step 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 The passenger rail was not straight. i know when I removed the lower valence on the front end it was jammed in- the very front on the passenger side wasn’t in line with the rest of the frame. Here’s an earlier photo showing that front frame member at the weld askew by about 1/8” looks like it wasn’t held straight when the c channel went in and they just rolled with it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 (edited) First I cleaned up the weld on passenger side and relief cut the hop and bottom to get the rail to align again. First photo shows the cut edge of the c channel where it was welded to the frame after the relief cut the frame member lifted up you can see how much movement had to take place to get the frame member lined up again - it’s ugly! Edited May 28 by Slawnski (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 I clamped the frame wher it was straight and welded the frame back at the relief cuts, cut out the old weld in a manner to be able to fill this with new weld there is still a dip in the top of the frame but I’ll address that by cutting out the areas marked out in this photo I’ll weld in another strip of steel which will add strength, as well as leave the top inner edge of that frame rail straight again 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 I’ll repeat the process for drivers side but the drivers frame rail is straight- so the added steel will mostly serve to straighten the top of the frame. I’ll fishplate the inside of both frame rails being careful not to get in the way of any mounted components which I think will end up being an oddly shaped plate(s) but both rails will be straight and reinforced. here’s a photo after the cutting, adjusting, welding and grinding on the passenger side rail tonight. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 Here another early before of this same rail hoping you can make out the thing being 1/8” off the plane of the rest of the chassis rail 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike "Hubbie" Stearns Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 Was the frame just cracked or was the front replaced? Adding the reinforcement is a must. Just make sure you remove all rust before welding the fish plate. Any rust that is left will grow and won’t be seen in till the frame brakes. Love the work you’re doing. Mike 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 Thanks Mike. Looks like it had been replaced. but I suppose it could have just cracked. it would have been odd to crack in the same place on both rails? In either case it was a pretty shoddy repair that was not seen before I purchased the car. The photo shows how far off that passenger rail was installed. It wasn’t much - but enough. That rectangular hunk is the top of the C channel. I’ll probably add an additional plate on the bottom of the frame rails. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod P Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 Slawnski, thanks for the crash course in repairing dodgy frame repairs there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 (edited) It looks like the trouble may have started where the rear shackles of the front springs attach to the frame. Though it wouldn't look original, I would consider finding a way to box that section of the frame or add gussets in order to better support the spring mount. Edited May 28 by EmTee (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 Very good point. Boxing the frame in that location would be ideal and is something I’ve considered. I’ll need to see how much that interferes with the parts that occupy that space. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 29 Author Share Posted May 29 Didn’t get to do anything in the shop- but here are details/ closeup photos of the drivers side frame rail at the repair/ crack(?) after I hit the joint with a flap disc. I'm not sure if these were cracks or replacement frame components. Are these 20’s Buicks prone to cracked frames? I made the slice at the bottom - not sure I really need to tweak this side much at all Last photo is overall look at the setup. I’m grateful for the lift. It’s going to get grittier and dustier before it gets better. More welding/ fishplates/ boxing coming up- Then wire wheeling the whole frame and prep for paint. There are a few later added items on this frame I will probably cut off. I’ll post these tomorrow. Thought about powder coating - but I’d have to/want to do all the other components and I’m not a fan of being at the mercy of whatever schedule the powdercoater has. Plus if I forget a piece there’s more delay. It’s nice being able to do parts as I have time, clean paint and reassemble. Not sure you Cann beat powder coated finish though… 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradsan Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 Have you thought about finding another frame? Given where you are in the process with a completely stripped frame , it might be the best option. They are out there and might be a whole lot less work ! I know they are out there because I have a spare 1925 Std frame still sitting around from my Sask. parts car. As much as I curse it every time it gets in the way, I just can't bear to throw away even though I'll probably never use it . There have to be others. I'm not aware of any cracking issues greater that any other car of they day, maybe this this one might have spent some time in the field! Brad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradsan Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 Wrong year but in support of my comment!😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 29 Author Share Posted May 29 3 hours ago, bradsan said: Have you thought about finding another frame? Given where you are in the process with a completely stripped frame , it might be the best option. They are out there and might be a whole lot less work ! I know they are out there because I have a spare 1925 Std frame still sitting around from my Sask. parts car. As much as I curse it every time it gets in the way, I just can't bear to throw away even though I'll probably never use it . There have to be others. I'm not aware of any cracking issues greater that any other car of they day, maybe this this one might have spent some time in the field! Brad I have made inquiries and have been looking for a frame while rehabbing the engine. Hoping I find a nice replacement. No luck- I’ll check that fb post though. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 29 Author Share Posted May 29 That one won’t work for me- listing ended anyway. I appreciate it though. If anybody has any leads on a 27 sedan frame let me know- but at this point it looks like more grinding/welding/ boxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradsan Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 (edited) I just posted the link as an example of frames still being out there, I agree that 1930 wouldn't fit. However, I'm pretty sure that 26-27 frames are all the same regardless of model. Short of having them side by side, one way to check is by going through the component part numbers in the 1918- 1931 Master Parts Manual. There is only about a dozen parts to check and the manual is pretty good with describing application. Not sure about 1925 . It's such a strange year for parts I'd give the chances 50/50 on the frames being the same . I'd say 1928 is probably out as there was a major redesign that year . I'd offer mine up but the shipping would be ugly between the border and the mileage. Maybe post a wanted ad in the for sale section of the forum? I'm surely not the only guy here that can't throw out stuff they'll never use! Brad Edited May 30 by bradsan (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 They may be available, but location (i.e., shipping) can be a challenge. Repairing the existing should be OK if done properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 2 hours ago, EmTee said: They may be available, but location (i.e., shipping) can be a challenge. Repairing the existing should be OK if done properly. Agreed- I’m hoping to be able to box both sides at the cut/crack/ old repair. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 Progress on the passenger side. I cut out a section to allow for new steel to be welded in. I ground the edges of the existing frame and the new steel to allow for the weld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 The steel is sticking beyond the edge of the frame so I can trim after it’s installed. Clamped in place and tacked. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 Filled in the weld, ground down and hit it with a flap disc. I’m not super proud of my welding but I got good penetration and it ground down nicely. After I repair drivers side top I’ll flip the frame and weld the undersides. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 Cut off the extra steel then hand filed the edge. I think there should be a gentle curve going to the front cross member and I might ease this in with the grinder. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 Before and after so far 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted June 1 Author Share Posted June 1 Drivers side tonight. Same process- cut out the gross spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted June 1 Author Share Posted June 1 Insert the new metal after grinding bevels on edges. spot welded to secure the new metal the weld in the new metal and grind down the welds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted June 1 Author Share Posted June 1 Mark out and cut off the excess tomorrow I’ll flip the frame over and weld the underside and lower leg of the frame 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted June 1 Author Share Posted June 1 Casualty of the evening 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slawnski Posted June 1 Author Share Posted June 1 I’ll need to weld around the bolt holes that were blown through with a torch when they transferred the frame holes to the c channels. I’ll drill out the holes after. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS25 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Great progress thanks for sharing 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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