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1927 Buick 27-27


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Posted (edited)

 

This is about my 1925 Standard but the ball studs should be the same for your 1927.  I believe I will do a procedural story on the replacement of my very bad tie rod ball studs. It got more involved than I wanted. But one of the most important things in our Buick hobby world is SPARE PARTS.  Also, interesting that the drag link on the axle I acquired from Oregon .....
   DSC01381.jpg.5345f7dc88c88b02eceefc4a4c85e2fa.jpgwas a different design than my 1925 below.
DSC01383.jpg.63415aa43b1e7c739b3211da4e3aa8ec.jpg
 
The new stud on the right compared to the old left side stud.
DSC01379.jpg.657ed3525966124b9c063fabb4840f54.jpg
 I measured the new sphere diameter as .995. The largest unworn area on the original was 1.000. Some areas over .025" loss of material. The rest had flat spots and looked more like a bowling pin.
 The much better leather cover retaining springs and covers I robbed from the Oregon Tie rod. Both of what was on My 1925 "Beulah" were thoroughly mangled. Note the anti-rattle device that was clamped to my tie rod.
DSC01378.jpg.8ce663a9452d6bf1859a483c37ac6761.jpg
 
While cleaning everything up I found that the studs and cups in the Oregon axle were in much better shape
image.png.5ef18675e4ef1164d4d032611d520023.png Oregon set.
Still showing wear, not perfect but serviceable and closer to a sphere in shape than what was in mine. My cups were pretty scored.
 I got the right side off last night and it was worse than the left side. What was on my car.
DSC01387.jpg.63ea7215b9a1c0eb8c43dad29159150a.jpg
So, I have the very good Oregon covers, springs, newly made leathers and cups with the new ball studs installed. The tie rod was also bent a bit.
image.png.3cbb30b68671f7b037802a297480cd53.png 
Hey.... my son Mark thought that I needed a Hydraulic press. 
DSC01386.jpg.df3922bc1acd638b3d335a20e4a4ffb2.jpgNow things have been straightened out.
 Finished installation.
DSC01388.jpg.bd1446466129bb13c9d10af805780c43.jpg
 
Edited by dibarlaw
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16 hours ago, David Stewart said:

Hi You should be pleased that the engine is nearly ready to run. You did a great job. I have a question...Do you have any dimensions for the Brougham 4 door body..Fisher service manual not much use, I'm afraid. The roof on mine is in such terminal shape, rot and wood returned to dust. The distance between the 'B' posts and the 'C' posts across the car. The side roof rails are gone, so I have to find the shape in both planes. 'A' posts are now duplicated as are 'B's.  Over the years the roof bows have sunk so as to force the rails outwards. Any help would be much appreciated.

David,

 

I’ll get some dimensions for you. Keeping in mind my front doors are off and the body is sitting on 6x6’s and not perfectly flat. Might be best to wait until I’m bolted back on the chassis- but I’ll get you what I can IMG_9946.jpeg.5a905e078f02606cd6b8019733bac62b.jpegIMG_9946.jpeg.5a905e078f02606cd6b8019733bac62b.jpeg

IMG_9944.jpeg

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6 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

 

This is about my 1925 Standard but the balll studs should be the same for your 1927.  I believe I will do a procedural story on the replacement of my very bad tie rod ball studs. It got more involved than I wanted. But one of the most important things in our Buick hobby world is SPARE PARTS.  Also, interesting that the drag link on the axle I acquired from Oregon .....
   DSC01381.jpg.5345f7dc88c88b02eceefc4a4c85e2fa.jpgwas a different design than my 1925 below.
DSC01383.jpg.63415aa43b1e7c739b3211da4e3aa8ec.jpg
 
The new stud on the right compared to the old left side stud.
DSC01379.jpg.657ed3525966124b9c063fabb4840f54.jpg
 I measured the new sphere diameter as .995. The largest unworn area on the original was 1.000. Some areas over .025" loss of material. The rest had flat spots and looked more like a bowling pin.
 The much better leather cover retaining springs and covers I robbed from the Oregon Tie rod. Both of what was on My 1925 "Beulah" were thoroughly mangled. Note the anti-rattle device that was clamped to my tie rod.
DSC01378.jpg.8ce663a9452d6bf1859a483c37ac6761.jpg
 
While cleaning everything up I found that the studs and cups in the Oregon axle were in much better shape
image.png.5ef18675e4ef1164d4d032611d520023.png Oregon set.
Still showing wear, not perfect but serviceable and closer to a sphere in shape than what was in mine. My cups were pretty scored.
 I got the right side off last night and it was worse than the left side. What was on my car.
DSC01387.jpg.63ea7215b9a1c0eb8c43dad29159150a.jpg
So, I have the very good Oregon covers, springs, newly made leathers and cups with the new ball studs installed. The tie rod was also bent a bit.
image.png.3cbb30b68671f7b037802a297480cd53.png 
Hey.... my son Mark thought that I needed a Hydraulic press. 
DSC01386.jpg.df3922bc1acd638b3d335a20e4a4ffb2.jpgNow things have been straightened out.
 Finished installation.
DSC01388.jpg.bd1446466129bb13c9d10af805780c43.jpg
 

Looking forward a series /post on these procedures. Just about ready to get into these areas. Thank you! 

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Rear leaf springs removed- passenger side front shackle is pretty jammed up and did not want to come off- soaking it on kroil and we’ll try removing it another nightIMG_5368.jpeg.c749dda4e609f57de1553f0cd2802741.jpegIMG_5369.jpeg.8c2efaa3d59d3a74054bb3501f3250b1.jpeg

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Front end and rear leaf springs on a cart now - easy to move around and keep out of the way. Photo is before I put the springs on the bottom shelf IMG_5348.jpeg.18dcc0d05d9f0ff91db5e0a753c056ef.jpeg

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So here is the reason this whole project took the path it has… the front of the frame members between side and front motor mounts were “ repaired” at some time in the past. Repaired poorly. Somebody welded in some c channels and burned out holes in them to accept parts that mounted in those locations. IMG_5375.jpeg.beb4192b1ba6bcf846ec2158b28d0c95.jpegIMG_5376.jpeg.9712cd40fd4f91528b768f0d5583bd9b.jpegIMG_5377.jpeg.29829e9af67c157f839ff1a66aae787a.jpegIMG_5383.jpeg.279b5a0d7df5ee596716f09e60f0510a.jpeg

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I removed the c channels tonight- wasn’t hard to do! They were booger welded along the top edge and tacked in one location at the bottom. I removed the lower sections of c channel and left the top intact so I could go to the next stepIMG_5386.jpeg.a22ab67e24b9413ccc9ac7192002e23a.jpegIMG_5394.jpeg.571a0456fd2e10bc309ae50a2803d925.jpeg

IMG_5385.jpeg

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The passenger rail was not straight. i know when I removed the lower valence on the front end it was jammed in- the very front on the passenger side wasn’t in line with the rest of the frame. Here’s an earlier photo showing that front frame member at the weld askew by about 1/8”  looks like it wasn’t held straight when the c channel went in and they just rolled with it  IMG_0286.jpeg.6962dc22bf378e8414b23c10e2c5ffc8.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

First I cleaned up the weld on passenger side and relief cut the hop and bottom to get the rail to align again. First photo shows the cut edge of the c channel where it was welded to the frame  after the relief cut the frame member lifted up you can see how much movement had to take place to get the frame member lined up again - it’s ugly! IMG_5403.jpeg.7cc5adaffdef98232333463f730523cc.jpegIMG_5404.jpeg.138497aabcda45d6dbe539afecfa31a5.jpeg

IMG_5402.jpeg

Edited by Slawnski (see edit history)
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I clamped the frame wher it was straight and welded the frame back at the relief cuts, cut out the old weld in a manner to be able to fill this with new weld IMG_5411.jpeg.f85d0e94690bd9cb70b29786be05cedc.jpeg there is still a dip in the top of the frame but I’ll address that by cutting out the areas marked out in this photo

IMG_5412.jpeg.65fb1322237ec2317796eecee76a76dd.jpeg

I’ll weld in another strip of steel which will add strength, as well as leave the top inner edge of that frame rail straight again 

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I’ll repeat the process for drivers side but the drivers frame rail is straight- so the added steel will mostly serve to straighten the top of the frame. 
 

I’ll  fishplate the inside of both frame rails being careful not to get in the way of any mounted components which I think will end up being an oddly shaped plate(s) but  both rails will be straight and reinforced. 
 

here’s a photo after the cutting, adjusting, welding and grinding on the passenger side rail tonight. IMG_5413.jpeg.04961831d48251f279437bffa9d914eb.jpegIMG_5409.jpeg.e5babbe7c409be0e070d76b0d5897ed5.jpeg

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Thanks Mike. Looks like it had been replaced.  but I suppose it could have just cracked. it would have been odd to crack in the same place on both rails? In either case it was a pretty shoddy repair that was not seen before I purchased the car. The photo shows how far off that passenger rail was installed. It wasn’t much - but enough. That rectangular hunk is the top of the C channel. 
 

I’ll probably add an additional plate on the bottom of the frame rails. IMG_5420.jpeg.9ee94f826756da722e3be8b011ea2445.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

It looks like the trouble may have started where the rear shackles of the front springs attach to the frame.  Though it wouldn't look original, I would consider finding a way to box that section of the frame or add gussets in order to better support the spring mount.

 

image.png.d711afa9ab632c4d26e48efe12378371.png

 

 

Edited by EmTee (see edit history)
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Very good point. Boxing the frame in that location would be ideal and is something I’ve considered. I’ll need to see how much that interferes with the parts that occupy that space. 

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Didn’t get to do anything in the shop- but here are details/ closeup photos of the drivers side frame rail at the repair/ crack(?) after I hit the joint with a flap disc. 

 

I'm not sure if these were cracks or replacement frame components. Are these 20’s Buicks prone to cracked frames? IMG_5427.jpeg.98be3a3c8a6825bb6e9405908b50b1cb.jpegIMG_5428.jpeg.829970b4c060f69185ca3e86628abbd3.jpeg

I made the slice at the bottom - not sure I really need to tweak this side much at all  IMG_5426.jpeg.0f6daa311628c6f9a0c0ec6d710ccca4.jpeg

 

Last photo is overall look at the setup. I’m grateful for the lift.  It’s going to get grittier and dustier before it gets better. More welding/ fishplates/ boxing coming up- Then wire wheeling the whole frame and prep for paint.  There are a few later added items on this frame I will probably cut off. I’ll post these tomorrow. Thought about powder coating - but I’d have to/want to do all the other components and I’m not a fan of being at the mercy of whatever schedule the powdercoater has. Plus if I forget a piece there’s more delay. It’s nice being able to do parts as I have time, clean paint and reassemble. Not sure you Cann beat powder coated finish though… 

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Have you thought about finding another frame?  Given where you are in the process with a completely stripped frame , it might be the best option. 

They are out there and might be a whole lot less work !

I know they are out there because I have a spare 1925 Std  frame still sitting around from my Sask. parts car.  As much as I curse it every time it gets in the way, I just can't bear to throw away even though I'll probably never use it . There have to be others.

 

I'm not aware of any cracking issues greater that any other car of they day, maybe this this one might have spent some time in the field!

 

Brad

 

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3 hours ago, bradsan said:

Have you thought about finding another frame?  Given where you are in the process with a completely stripped frame , it might be the best option. 

They are out there and might be a whole lot less work !

I know they are out there because I have a spare 1925 Std  frame still sitting around from my Sask. parts car.  As much as I curse it every time it gets in the way, I just can't bear to throw away even though I'll probably never use it . There have to be others.

 

I'm not aware of any cracking issues greater that any other car of they day, maybe this this one might have spent some time in the field!

 

Brad

 

I have made inquiries and have been looking for a frame while rehabbing the engine. Hoping I find a nice replacement.  No luck- I’ll check that fb post though. Thank you. 

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That one won’t work for me- listing ended anyway. I appreciate it though. If anybody has any leads on a 27 sedan frame let me know- but at this point it looks like more grinding/welding/ boxing. 

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Posted (edited)

I just posted the link as an example of frames still being out there, I agree that 1930 wouldn't fit.

However, I'm pretty sure that 26-27 frames are all the same regardless of model. Short of having them side by side, one way to check is by going through the component part numbers in the 1918- 1931 Master Parts Manual. There is only about a dozen  parts to check and the manual is pretty good with describing application.

Not sure about 1925 . It's such a strange year for parts I'd give the chances 50/50 on the frames being the same .

I'd say 1928 is probably out as there was a major redesign that year .

I'd offer mine up but the shipping would be ugly between the border and the mileage.

 

Maybe post a wanted ad in the for sale section of the forum? I'm surely not the only guy here that can't throw out stuff they'll never use!

 

Brad

Edited by bradsan (see edit history)
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They may be available, but location (i.e., shipping) can be a challenge.  Repairing the existing should be OK if done properly.

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2 hours ago, EmTee said:

They may be available, but location (i.e., shipping) can be a challenge.  Repairing the existing should be OK if done properly.

Agreed- I’m hoping to be able to box both sides at the cut/crack/ old repair. 

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Progress on the passenger side. 
 

I cut out a section to allow for new steel to be welded in. IMG_5443.jpeg.213dbf3a05d69d00463013ede48615b5.jpeg
 

I ground the edges of the existing frame and the new steel to allow for the weld 

 

IMG_5445.jpeg.ff9283712b5d5dc6b0b1e9f6ef6970dd.jpeg

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Filled in the weld, ground down and hit it with a flap disc. 

IMG_5450.jpeg.a3a39cccc35ea76ea8872a4046281ef8.jpeg

IMG_5451.jpeg.f1c4e9468d846c38df9bb32a051d88b0.jpeg
 

I’m not super proud of my welding but I got good penetration and it ground down nicely. After I repair drivers side top I’ll flip the frame and weld the undersides. 

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Cut off the extra steel then hand filed the edge. 
I think there should be a gentle curve going to the front cross member and I might ease this in with the grinder. IMG_5452.jpeg.2f150f74cbae14f5aa434ba01f18c3ee.jpegIMG_5454.jpeg.49f05f798d967508f6927257586e72b6.jpeg

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Insert the new metal after grinding bevels on edges. IMG_5467.jpeg.02717902bac0895d8e7f835245db523b.jpegspot welded to secure the new metal the weld in the new metal and grind down the welds

 

IMG_5468.jpeg.88ce25ab7f9844e5d5eff54d69c0a80f.jpeg

 

IMG_5469.jpeg.f9b036d8668b2306aaab3e432021913e.jpeg

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I’ll need to weld around the bolt holes that were blown through with a torch when they transferred the frame holes to the c channels. I’ll drill out the holes after. IMG_5476.jpeg.f1fc86b251751058e0ac8a0ed42085a3.jpegIMG_5477.jpeg.67f9c7f81a84a9190b91d05f8aa828de.jpeg

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