1932 Packard production and sales

[Tph479]

I thought all of you would find this interesting. Amazing how the sales plummeted as the depression went on.

[Tph479]

7 minutes ago, Tph479 said:

I thought all of you would find this interesting. Amazing how the sales plummeted as the depression went on.

 

[John Bloom]

Interesting, you wonder what would’ve happened in 32 if they did not have the light eight.  Hard to look at those numbers and not see the families being supported by the men and women who were able to remain employed. Every day at work must’ve been stressful as people were nervous about losing their jobs and the impact on their family.

 

I assume Cadillac, Lincoln, Pierce Arrow, etc. had similar contraction of production? 
 

I think I read the 120 was being planned at this point in time even though it was still 3 years from coming on line. 

Those numbers must’ve crushed some of the coachbuilders too. 

 

 

 

[Su8overdrive]

Always interesting to see automotive historical records, but where does the amazing come in?  The nation was devastated by a financial crash that quickly crossed the Atlantic.  Few had money for huge, fancy cars.

Unemployment in the Eastern and Midwestern US reached 25%.  John Bloom raises a good point, about those able to keep their jobs in those dark days. The "shovel nose" Light Eight was not at all profitable, which is why the next year, planning for what became the One Twenty began in earnest.  Oft wonder what Pierce's proposed, Hayes-bodied 25,000 1938 juniors at their higher price point of $1,200 base would've been like, had Buffalo been helmed since the early teens by ex-cash register and Hudson executives as Packard was who knew how to better milk tooling and retain higher profit margins, Packard the most widely held automotive stock before the war after only GM,  Ford not going public 'til New Year's Day, 1956.

 

  BTW, what became the '32 "Twin Six," Twelve 1933-on, was never intended to replace the big 385-ci Custom Eight.  The initial 376-ci Packard V-12 was meant as a FWD Buick 90 contender, sub-luxe.  Packard's most profitable year would remain 1929, despite the funky little six of 1937,  and bucket milling all their products but a few leftover Twelves from 1939-on,  guided by former GM big B-O-Ppers brought in to cost the excellent 120, even Chevrolet's sales mgr. Bill Packer recruited to teach Packard dealers how to sell on credit.

 

  Cadillac unveiled, to Packard's chagrin, after years of crowing over their V-8,  essentially a straight eight with the firing impulses halved for less crankpin loading, the V-16 simply as more power required to move custom bodies approaching three tons and a bigger V-8 would only present increased torque, vibration, and thermodynamic woes, yet able to share the existing Cad V-8 driveline.  Packard couldn't be outdone -- the Six that comprised 84 or so percent of their 1920s sales had been slickly one-upped by Cad's crisp '27 LaSalle -- so hurriedly dropped a stroked V-12 into the existing Custom 8 chassis, with resulting initial cooling problems.  Packard's thorough engineering and refinement were so ingrained that even with four main bearings, their 1932-39 Twelve was one of the finest luxe engines of the decade, tho' it used Cadillac's fiendishly complex hydraulic valve  s i l e n c e r s,   while Pierce-Arrow's robust 385-ci straight 8 and 462-ci V-12 their own patented hydraulic valve lifters    Pierce's V-12 was designed from the outset to launch massive luxury barges as seven mains attest.

 

   But Packard's chassis was nonpareil, and allied with Werner Gubitz's crisp, understated bodies, retained a sculpted look Cad, the big Lincolns, Pierce, Marmon and the others could not match, and so retained up to 42% of the minuscule fine car (above $2,000 FOB) market through 1936, when Cadillac downsized all their product, increasingly sharing components with lesser GMobiles, and the rest of the industry went "junior."  But remember: Even when Packard dominated what remained of the fine car market in the '30s, their styling was also thanks to a pair of outsiders, Count Alexis de Sakhnoffsky and Ray Dietrich, just as their sole hit of the '40s thanks to a theme presented by Dutch Darrin, who the Company stiffed.

 

    So, interesting, of course.  But amazing?   The party was over, and engineering improvements meant a new breed of "pocket luxury cars" as they were called, could outperform the earlier juggernauts, which in any event were seen as "high hat,"  old school pomposity by younger, hipper buyers.

 

    You could argue that all engineering is cost engineering else we'd be serfs to this day.  Rolls-Royce was disassembling a new Buick Limited annually in the years just before War II to glean the latest Detroit production tips.  Some here gathered get so swept into buff book, coffee table book paeans to expensive cars they lose industry perspective, let alone an understanding of the times.

 

     Anyone can build a cost-little-object super car, but it takes real skill to engineer affordable quality and performance.  Equally, it's easier to make any long wheelbase barouche look elegant,  it taking advanced artistry to do so on a wheelbase of 120 or so inches.

 

     There were still a few who could afford, and thought they needed, sheer size and a certain craftsmanship then and now.   The paucity of prewar sport and grand touring cars among the CCCA's accepted list suggests size is as much virtue as anything.

 

     Not complicated, TPH.   No money, no sale.

 

     Autoholicism.  Should be in the kitchen helping my girl bolt together Christmas eve repast.    Happy New Year to you and all on these forums, and have you ever tried to explain the visceral pull certain old cars have on us to enquiring "civilians" at the dinner table?  Oh, they might grasp the shiny, imposing, impressive part, but not what it is to drive, to feel the quality;  to enjoy wiping down an engine with a 100% cotton rag dipped in a bit of kerosene a day or two after a run.

 

   

Edited January 7 by Su8overdrive (see edit history)

[Tph479]

Reviewing the chart, most of the 9th series standard eights and deluxe eights had to be built in the 1931 calendar year and took most of 1932 to sell. The month of august was absolutely brutal for production. I do not have the twin six production figures by month, but 549 of them were produced from January 1932 on. But from June 1932 on, you can easily see how quickly it was deteriorating at Packard. It would be interesting to see the custom body orders with all of the coach builders to see what their trends were.

 

I wonder how many of the light eight sales stole from the standard and deluxe eight numbers or alternatively, if the light eight wasn’t around would packard had those sales anyway. Werner Gubitz did a fine job with light eight design on the shorter wheelbase and maybe it was the stop gap the company needed to boost sales and experiment with new engineering. Werner did to an excellent job at maintaining and updating the Packard look through he rest of his career.

 

It would have been interesting to have been a fly on the wall in the Packard corporate office after the 1929 banner year and hear them talking about the quickly collapsing luxury market. Like Su8overdrive said no money, no sales. What I really find interesting is that while the party was quickly coming to an end during the years of 1932-1934, it also brought out some of the finest designs of the classic era.

[Su8overdrive]

Right.  If you had a job, you pulled out all the stops, whether working on the line, in the boardroom, or design studio.

[8E45E]

On 12/25/2023 at 6:00 PM, Tph479 said:

I wonder how many of the light eight sales stole from the standard and deluxe eight numbers or alternatively, if the light eight wasn’t around would packard had those sales anyway. Werner Gubitz did a fine job with light eight design on the shorter wheelbase and maybe it was the stop gap the company needed to boost sales and experiment with new engineering. Werner did to an excellent job at maintaining and updating the Packard look through he rest of his career.

 

It would have been interesting to have been a fly on the wall in the Packard corporate office after the 1929 banner year and hear them talking about the quickly collapsing luxury market. Like Su8overdrive said no money, no sales. What I really find interesting is that while the party was quickly coming to an end during the years of 1932-1934, it also brought out some of the finest designs of the classic era.

And technology.  Advancements, including overdrive, improved lubrication, etc., enabled cars to travel faster and last longer between rebuilds.  The fastest one travelled on a highway in 1930 was maybe 45-50 mph.  When the PA Turnpike opened in 1940, the speed limit was 70 mph.

 

Packard needed the 120 to survive.  Unlike Cadillac or Lincoln, Packard had no cash-generating low priced, high volume divisions like Chevrolet or Ford to prop up the company when luxury car sales were slow.  Rolls-Royce even had to come out with the entry level 20/25 series to maintain sales during the Great Depression.

 

Craig

[Tph479]

13 hours ago, 8E45E said:

And technology.  Advancements, including overdrive, improved lubrication, etc., enabled cars to travel faster and last longer between rebuilds.  The fastest one travelled on a highway in 1930 was maybe 45-50 mph.  When the PA Turnpike opened in 1940, the speed limit was 70 mph.

 

Packard needed the 120 to survive.  Unlike Cadillac or Lincoln, Packard had no cash-generating low priced, high volume divisions like Chevrolet or Ford to prop up the company when luxury car sales were slow.  Rolls-Royce even had to come out with the entry level 20/25 series to maintain sales during the Great Depression.

 

Craig

The 120’s are fabulous cars. They are very nimble and are easy to drive. My personal belief is that Packard wouldn’t have survived the 1930’s without it. 160’s and 180’s to me are just larger 120’s based on the same design principles. If I recall, I think guys from Pontiac or another GM branch were hired to develop the junior cars. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

You are correct about the fast moving pace of automobile technology during this time period and also the roads being designed for faster travel. All car manufacturers were quickly developing quicker, faster cars with standard comforts and features that were unheard of 10 years prior, especially in the sub $2,000 price range. Price points came down and the quality and advancements in non classic cars greatly improved during the 1930’s.

 

The guys running Packard did what they had to do to survive and they were able to keep afloat in an era where a lot of other independents closed the doors.

 

[58L-Y8]

No doubt the Light Eight diverted Standard Eight sales, it was 'enough' Packard for the price in uncertain times.  The typical three-to-five-year new car replacement cycle just for the 1928 Sixes and 1929 Standard Eights of 89K total owners provided Packard with a base for its least expensive model.  This disregards those prior Custom and Deluxe owner who, given the tenor of the times, thought it wise to 'trade-down' temporarily but still with a Packard. 

 

One ironic thing the Packard Light Eight probed was the coming price segment for entry level luxury cars: -/+$1,700.  At that pricing, management also received a hard lesson in that to profit at that level, the overall car had to be designed to do so, not simply, in the current parlance 'de-contented'.   The industry then was a pretty insular community, GM watched it competitors closely, quickly noticed the Light Eight produced 40.7% of Packard's 1932 sales.  With decisions being made about its own struggling makes, Cadillac fortuitously had a sacrificial lamb in its fold to test that new lower price segment without sullying its prestige: the 1934 LaSalle, $1,695.   When the market responded positively, it was time for Cadillac itself to take the same tact: 1936 Cadillac 60: $1,695.  While Packard was occupied with its excellent 120 and 115 conquesting the re-aligned upper medium-priced segment -/+$1,100, Cadillac happily invited those seeking a fine car into their fraternity at an attractive price.

[Tph479]

21 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

No doubt the Light Eight diverted Standard Eight sales, it was 'enough' Packard for the price in uncertain times.  The typical three-to-five-year new car replacement cycle just for the 1928 Sixes and 1929 Standard Eights of 89K total owners provided Packard with a base for its least expensive model.  This disregards those prior Custom and Deluxe owner who, given the tenor of the times, thought it wise to 'trade-down' temporarily but still with a Packard. 

 

One ironic thing the Packard Light Eight probed was the coming price segment for entry level luxury cars: -/+$1,700.  At that pricing, management also received a hard lesson in that to profit at that level, the overall car had to be designed to do so, not simply, in the current parlance 'de-contented'.   The industry then was a pretty insular community, GM watched it competitors closely, quickly noticed the Light Eight produced 40.7% of Packard's 1932 sales.  With decisions being made about its own struggling makes, Cadillac fortuitously had a sacrificial lamb in its fold to test that new lower price segment without sullying its prestige: the 1934 LaSalle, $1,695.   When the market responded positively, it was time for Cadillac itself to take the same tact: 1936 Cadillac 60: $1,695.  While Packard was occupied with its excellent 120 and 115 conquesting the re-aligned upper medium-priced segment -/+$1,100, Cadillac happily invited those seeking a fine car into their fraternity at an attractive price.

Packard had a sales winner on its hands with the 120 and 115.  In 1937 Packard had sales volumes that they last achieved in 1929 before sales cratered. I would bet that during the 1920’s and early 1930’s those  buyers of the lower cost CCCA classic Packards were also the same buyers of the 120 and 115. Here they got a more advanced car with juice brakes and independent front suspension, a faster car that was a lot easier to drive, more fuel efficient and the car was probably better built and sold for less than half the price they would have paid for their 1929 626 model,  and the 115 and 120 looked like a senior Packard, just like the 526 and 626 looked like a 640 Packard.

 

I compare this to a cell phone, where a brick phone cost over a grand when it came out and now we have smart phones that can do everything under the sun and phone companies give them away for free. Technology quickly gets more advanced and the price usually goes down as it gets more public implementation. 

 

 

 

[Walt G]

On 12/25/2023 at 8:00 PM, Tph479 said:

Werner Gubitz did a fine job with light eight design on the shorter wheelbase

When I still belonged to CCCA some years ago ,  I did a story on the experimental light 8 cars and included period factory photos, the hood cowl area was different before they settled on the final design. Just about every issue of the club magazine had a story in it I wrote for over thirty years , that will never ever happen again.

[Tph479]

12 hours ago, Walt G said:

When I still belonged to CCCA some years ago ,  I did a story on the experimental light 8 cars and included period factory photos, the hood cowl area was different before they settled on the final design. Just about every issue of the club magazine had a story in it I wrote for over thirty years , that will never ever happen again.

You are an excellent writer and historian. It is a shame what transpired. 
 

I get the impression that you are a fan of Gubitz. He was experimenting with the hood going back to the windshield in 1931 for the cheapest Packard line. It wasn’t until 1934 that the hood covering the cowl was used on the custom v windshield Dietrich’s and custom Lebarron’s. From 1935 on it was used throughout the Packard line. 

[58L-Y8]

23 hours ago, Tph479 said:

You are an excellent writer and historian. It is a shame what transpired. 
 

I get the impression that you are a fan of Gubitz. He was experimenting with the hood going back to the windshield in 1931 for the cheapest Packard line. It wasn’t until 1934 that the hood covering the cowl was used on the custom v windshield Dietrich’s and custom Lebarron’s. From 1935 on it was used throughout the Packard line. 

Werner Gubitz knew the design benefits a full-length, over-the-cowl-to-windshield hood would do the moment he saw the 1930 Jordan Speedway Model Z Sportsman sedan and Ace roadster.   Management had just committed to a new set of body dies, the economic climate was deteriorating, so what they had for production would have to do for a while.    If one wanted a car with the latest styling trend in 1932, one had to visit the DeSoto-Plymouth dealership for a Plymouth PB or DeSoto SC

Edited January 8 by 58L-Y8
syntax corrected (see edit history)

[Tph479]

10 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Werner Gubitz knew the design benefits a full-length, over-the-cowl-to-windshield hood would do the moment he saw the 1930 Jordan Speedway Model Z Sportsman sedan and Ace roadster.   Management had just committed to a new set of body dies, the economic climate was deteriorating, so what they had for production would have to do for a while.    If one wanted a car with the latest styling trend in 1932, one had to visit the DeSoto-Plymouth dealership for a Plymouth PB or DeSoto SC

Those are 2 good looking cars you posted. Nice stying was quickly revolving at this time, which I find interesting considering the economic times.
 

The Plymouth reminded me of a car my late friend had Boyd build, a 1933 Plymouth and the hood side doors are the exact size and shape of the 1934 Packard Lebaron’s. My friend was inspired from seeing the Roxas Lebarron’s being built while he was having some cars restored there.