Wiring in Amber Turn Signals 1997 Buick Riviera down under. (NOW SOLVED🤔🤔🤔)

[rodneybeauchamp]

Hi all,

 

am trying to wire in two seperate Amber turn signal lamps to the REAR of my 1997 Buick Riviera. These lamps have 18W festoon bulbs fitted.
 

Our Australian authorities require ALL cars manufactured after 1967 to have Amber rear turn signal lamps to comply for LHD conditional historic registration. Am struggling at the moment to figure out how I can achieve this. (But I will as I don’t give in easily 😀)

 

 

The original set up seen in the photo is ONE RED lamp stretching the full width of the rear end containing bulbs and sockets for TURN SIGNALS AND STOP LAMPS, TAIL LAMPS, REVERSE LAMPS and LICENSE PLATE.
 

The BULBS in the photo are labeled T3057 and work correctly when plugged in either way. Each of the FOUR TURN SIGNAL/BRAKE GLOBE SOCKETS (two per side) has THREE WIRE INPUTS - turn signal/stop - tail lamp - ground as seen in the photo.
 

Have located the YELLOW left hand and DARK GREEN right hand feeds for the turn signal bulbs. (Two per side)  Connecting these to each new amber lamp with a separate ground turns the lamp ON BUT DOES NOT FLASH.

 

It is only when I hook it back to original does the new AMBER LAMP FLASH. The original one piece tail lamp is ALL PLASTIC and each bulb socket is connected with A COMMON BLACK GROUND WIRE plus the TURN SIGNAL FEED plus the TAIL LAMP FEED.

 

My original plan was to wire these AMBER LAMPS in separately and pick up the STOP LAMP WIRING from the centre EYE LEVEL BRAKE LAMP. This is to prevent the EXISTING STOP LAMP BULBS from flashing with the TURN SIGNALS.

 

Have a shop manual coming but currently don’t have a wiring diagram so using a test lamp to figure it out. Am usually OK with auto electrics but this one is INTERESTING to say the least.

 

Am I able to wire it correctly from here or do I need to dig further into the switch wiring in the column?

Any help to get these working correctly will be much appreciated. 
 

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀😀

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by rodneybeauchamp
Problem solved (see edit history)

[Farmallregular]

Not familiar with that specific car, but my initial suspicion is that the amber lights by themselves may not be drawing enough current to operate the flasher...common problem with LED light conversions.  If that's the problem, you can buy load resistors to fool the computer.  Where it's grounded shouldn't make any difference, although you never know what some manufacturer may have done.

 

Are you required to disconnect the red turn signals?  If not, might be easier to just leave them in place and pick up a feed from the front turn signal bulbs to operate the new lights in the rear.  That way the amber lights won't come on with braking.

 

Interesting problem, good luck.

 

Keith

[Digger914]

There was a time when every American service man that took his US made car to Japan faced this same problem. The easy way to do this is get the https://www.curtmfg.com/towing-electrical/taillight-converters/3-to-2-wire-taillight-converter    a variable timing digital flasher and put amber bulbs in your clear reverse light locations. You can use small LED projector lights in the lower section of the of the rear bumper for reverse lighting.

 

You will need to cut a couple of wires and add some wire, but the premade circuit is so much easier that reinventing the entire wheel.

 

Don't connect the stop wire to the converter and do bring the third light stop down to the rear tail lights.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Digger914 (see edit history)

[rodneybeauchamp]

8 hours ago, Farmallregular said:

Not familiar with that specific car, but my initial suspicion is that the amber lights by themselves may not be drawing enough current to operate the flasher...common problem with LED light conversions.  If that's the problem, you can buy load resistors to fool the computer.  Where it's grounded shouldn't make any difference, although you never know what some manufacturer may have done.

 

Are you required to disconnect the red turn signals?  If not, might be easier to just leave them in place and pick up a feed from the front turn signal bulbs to operate the new lights in the rear.  That way the amber lights won't come on with braking.

 

Interesting problem, good luck.

 

Keith

Hi Keith, thought that might be an issue but these are old school 18W festoon globes. So I tried both lamps on the one side, still no joy. And yes we have to disconnect the reds otherwise adding the ambers as extra would be easy. And that was my thought to pick up from the front only. It might be worth a try but again the reds will have to be disconnected.

 

5 hours ago, Digger914 said:

There was a time when every American service man that took his US made car to Japan faced this same problem. The easy way to do this is get the https://www.curtmfg.com/towing-electrical/taillight-converters/3-to-2-wire-taillight-converter    a variable timing digital flasher and put amber bulbs in your clear reverse light locations. You can use small LED projector lights in the lower section of the of the rear bumper for reverse lighting.

 

You will need to cut a couple of wires and add some wire, but the premade circuit is so much easier that reinventing the entire wheel.

 

Don't connect the stop wire to the converter and do bring the third light stop down to the rear tail lights.

 

 

Thought about the clear reverse lamp locations but they sit just either side of the license plate, too far inboard to be legal.

 

Will look at this tail light converter and see whether it might work. (But it won’t as it still retains the flashing and tail lamp in the one globe.)

cheers

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀

Edited October 14, 2023 by rodneybeauchamp
Added answer (see edit history)

[Guest]

The turn signal flasher is load dependent for it to work correctly.  If the load isn't what the flasher unit was designed for, it won't work correctly. Try a heavy-duty flasher unit, usually sold for trailer towing, which will function independent of the load.

 

As it seems the same wires feed both the turn signals and brake lights, you'll need the module Digger914 references inserted between the yellow and green wires at the taillights and the module output going to power all brake light bulbs. The module input wires are where the power for the right and left amber turn signals can be taken. The module doesn't allow power to pass through unless both the yellow and green are energized, which would only happen if the brake pedal was pressed. Only the green or yellow wire would be energized if a turn signal was on, the module would not pass power through it to the brake lights.

 

Also, can you legally place those amber lights inside the rear window corners, perhaps with shields to avoid glare to the driver at night? I can't see any location on the outside rear where those lights would ruin the smooth and attractive design.

 

Edit: These logic modules seem to be getting to be harder to find, plus I forgot you are in Australia. Might want to see if you can source domestically to you. Try searching "trailer light logic module" and see what comes up locally. The modules I was able to find had current limits of 3 amps, so you will also need to add up the current draw for the number of brake light bulbs that you have. If the total is over 3 amps, a workaround would be to go with the LED versions of the 3157.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Writer Jon (see edit history)

[rodneybeauchamp]

4 hours ago, Writer Jon said:

The turn signal flasher is load dependent for it to work correctly.  If the load isn't what the flasher unit was designed for, it won't work correctly. Try a heavy-duty flasher unit, usually sold for trailer towing, which will function independent of the load.

 

As it seems the same wires feed both the turn signals and brake lights, you'll need the module Digger914 references inserted between the yellow and green wires at the taillights and the module output going to power all brake light bulbs. The module input wires are where the power for the right and left amber turn signals can be taken. The module doesn't allow power to pass through unless both the yellow and green are energized, which would only happen if the brake pedal was pressed. Only the green or yellow wire would be energized if a turn signal was on, the module would not pass power through it to the brake lights.

 

Also, can you legally place those amber lights inside the rear window corners, perhaps with shields to avoid glare to the driver at night? I can't see any location on the outside rear where those lights would ruin the smooth and attractive design.

 

Edit: These logic modules seem to be getting to be harder to find, plus I forgot you are in Australia. Might want to see if you can source domestically to you. Try searching "trailer light logic module" and see what comes up locally. The modules I was able to find had current limits of 3 amps, so you will also need to add up the current draw for the number of brake light bulbs that you have. If the total is over 3 amps, a workaround would be to go with the LED versions of the 3157.

Hi Jon,

thank you for your input. Am mounting the lights on metal brackets that mount using the bumper bolt underneath. Yes they will look Goddam awful but I can live with that until I figure something else. It is temporary so I can get it passed by our authorities.

 

Lamps in the window would not be lawful here. 
 

Im thinking that by accessing the high level brake lamp wiring and tapping into there will take care of the stop lamps without flashing.

 

But thinking I might have to access the switch wiring if tapping into the existing flasher wiring won’t work. Problem with the unit Digger 914 described is that the existing red lamps will still flash, which is not allowable.

 

Am waiting on the shop manual with wiring diagram to arrive but trying to get something achievable done without it.

 

Wont let it beat me but not fun! ☹️☹️☹️☹️

[Fordy]

I really don't know why you have the problem but just want to say that in 1978 I had an FC Holden that left the factory with red turn signal lenses and no amber in sight. I copped a defective vehicle notice over it despite it coming that way straight out the box and not an issue for the preceding 20 years!

Our laws here are a little odd at times.

[Frank DuVal]

Once you have the wiring diagram, disconnect the brake switch feed to the turn signal switch. This will make the wiring to the rear stock lamps just turn signals. Now run this wiring to the amber lamps. Then run the third brake lamp wiring to the existing rear red lamps. Do check the wiring diagram to make sure the third brake light is fed not from the turn signal switch.

 

 

[rodneybeauchamp]

On 10/15/2023 at 8:15 PM, Fordy said:

I really don't know why you have the problem but just want to say that in 1978 I had an FC Holden that left the factory with red turn signal lenses and no amber in sight. I copped a defective vehicle notice over it despite it coming that way straight out the box and not an issue for the preceding 20 years!

Our laws here are a little odd at times.

Yes our laws are strange. Vehicles up to 1967 red indicators are legal, anything after a no no!

On 10/16/2023 at 2:47 AM, Frank DuVal said:

Once you have the wiring diagram, disconnect the brake switch feed to the turn signal switch. This will make the wiring to the rear stock lamps just turn signals. Now run this wiring to the amber lamps. Then run the third brake lamp wiring to the existing rear red lamps. Do check the wiring diagram to make sure the third brake light is fed not from the turn signal switch.

 

 

Frank, I think you might be onto something. I did find a schematic on another forum and figured that’s how it needs to be done. Looks easy on paper 😀😀😀😀

 

[Frank DuVal]

Yes! It sure looks like

1. cutting wire going to A1 on turnsignal switch, to remove brake function from turn signal circuits

2. cutting yellow and darg green going to taillamp assemblies and wiring those to appropriate amber assemblies.

3. extending white wire going to third brake lamp to both the cut yellow and dark green wires on the taillamp assemblies.

 

Well, it's worth a try! 😄

[rodneybeauchamp]

Wow, did we have a win today! After a sleepless night I figured out how I would solve the puzzle.

 

As several on this forum suggested 👍👍👍👍👍 I picked up the stop lamp feed solely from the high level brake light as that remains steady at all times. Wired that in and that worked well. I used the ground wire and the power feed as I understand these use a ‘floating ground system’. Regardless, by using the power and ground it all works as I need it ….. a steady brake light.

 

OK, now for the turn signals. I adapted the same principle of using the yellow and dark green power feeds and the common black ground rather than the body ground and wired these to my amber lamps. Still no joy, just a steady amber light but no flashing.

 

However when hazard warning lights were selected, both Amber lights  flashed as they should and reds remained off!

 

Given this Riviera runs 2 globes for each side I tried adding an extra globe in my circuit. You can see in the photo my makeshift testing with two bulb sockets.

 

Ended up using 2 extra 21W globes per side and Lo and behold, we have flashing lights. Problem solved!

 

All I need to do is fabricate some brackets and mount the lamps at a suitable height and our authorities should be happy. It will look awful for now but …. They might fall off one day 🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫 Last photo shows the LH Amber lamp working sans red brake lamps.

 

And to enhance the colour, painted the bulbs a clear red using a water based Tamiya model paint. 
 

And many many thanks to those who racked their brains and responded here.

 

Photos or it ain’t happened yet

Rodney 😀😀😀😀

 

 

[Frank DuVal]

There are flashers that will work with less lamps in the circuit. Is it a typical two prong flasher unit?

 

And there are electronic versions that don't care how many lamps (up to a point...) are in the circuit. Here is an example, I have not bought one, so not an endorsement of this product:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Turn-Signal-Flasher-Relay/dp/B07GWL1YS3

Edited October 25, 2023 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[rodneybeauchamp]

On 10/26/2023 at 3:52 AM, Frank DuVal said:

There are flashers that will work with less lamps in the circuit. Is it a typical two prong flasher unit?

 

And there are electronic versions that don't care how many lamps (up to a point...) are in the circuit. Here is an example, I have not bought one, so not an endorsement of this product:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Turn-Signal-Flasher-Relay/dp/B07GWL1YS3

Yes Frank, there are flasher units that will work with less load, however the last thing I wanted to do was start removing and replacing it (where ever it might be located). What I have rigged up will only be temporary to get past our authorities and if wanting to do something more permanent I would look down that path.

 

Made up some steel brackets today in preparation for mounting them. All going well.

 

I am just so pleased that it turned out so well without the need to dive in under the dashboard for the switch.

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀

[rodneybeauchamp]

Done and dusted. Don’t look pretty but they do the job required for now!

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀😀

 

 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Gotta do whatya gotta do!! 🙂     

 

  Ben