Tell me about this "PREMIER" brass headlight I bought, please. Calling Terry Bond and other brass guys.

[lump]

At our local swap meet this past weekend I found a vendor with a few old brass headlights for sale. They were in various states of condition (none totally complete or in great shape). But one light in particular caught my attention. It appears to me to be a headlight for a PREMIER automobile, which has been converted to electric. I say this because it has that "chimney" on top, yet has electrical connectors for the light bulb. On the other hand, the workmanship on the electrical fitting on the bottom looks better than most I have seen before. 

 

But my salient question is, do the experts think that the name "PREMIER" refers to the automobile company, as I ASSUME, or is it merely a brand name for the light itself? 

 

Either way, I would like to clean it up for display, which means I'll need to find an appropriate glass lens, and whatever clips or etc would have held the lens in place. Also, I'm wondering if this light would have mostly been painted black? And I note the lens bezel appears to be nickel finish, and the chimney metal is also not a yellow color. 

 

Can anyone share any insights, please? 

[Ben Popadak]

Yes your light would be off a Premier automobile.  Yes the light has been electrified and the reflector in the back and the electric socket on the bottom didn't originally belong to the light.  Has all the looks of a Solar light of the 12 hundred series.  The size of the light could better tell you the model.  With Solar, generally the first numbers are the design year so your light should be roughly for a 1912 automobile.  Normally the knob to lock in the front rim would be in the lower right hand corner as seen in the last photo and the knob would say solar and the model.  Solar made a LOT of lamps for automobiles and many got their names on them.  I'm sure it had to do with how much business you did with them.  Well Solar is just about the best lamp as far as I'm concerned.  They used a thicker brass and they are far less likely to dent or split compared to the thin brass lamps.  I use to have sitting on my display shelf, 4 Chalmers script headlights that were pretty much copies of your light.  Looked for years for your same light but with the Kisselkar script but that truck chassis is long gone.  Nice piece.

[Terry Bond]

Ben nailed it. Great info, absolutely correct.

Terry

[1912Staver]

I agree with all said above, except is this possibly a very early / transition period electric light ? The connection socket sure looks factory . Some Solar side lights are oil / electric from the factory. Possibly head lights were briefly produced this way as well ?

[Terry Bond]

7 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

I agree with all said above, except is this possibly a very early / transition period electric light ? The connection socket sure looks factory . Some Solar side lights are oil / electric from the factory. Possibly head lights were briefly produced this way as well ?

Oil/electric combo side lights during the "transition" period were indeed common, but I'm not aware of a combination gas/electric headlamp.  If it were to have a dual function, it would not have had a reflector of that type. A mirror in the back of the lamp is required to project the light from the gas flame.  That would render the lamp relatively ineffective for use with an electric bulb. in other-words - it's not practical to combine the two types of lighting.  

Terry

[1912Staver]

I wasn't suggesting this is a combination unit. Just a very early electric headlight. I only mentioned the sidelights as an example of the sort of thing produced during the transition.  I can see the first electric lights being of a gas light construction , but of the workings of a electric light. In the first year or so of electric equiptment I am sure at least a few people wondered if they were going to catch on or just be a fad.

[Terry Bond]

2 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

I wasn't suggesting this is a combination unit. Just a very early electric headlight. I only mentioned the sidelights as an example of the sort of thing produced during the transition.  I can see the first electric lights being of a gas light construction , but of the workings of a electric light. In the first year or so of electric equiptment I am sure at least a few people wondered if they were going to catch on or just be a fad.

Thanks - Sorry, I misunderstood your thoughts.  I'm  still of the opinion it's a gas lamp that's been converted.  It was commonly done.

Terry

[lump]

Now I wonder if I should start looking for parts to convert it back to gas? I really just want to display it. AND, I'll have to decide whether it should be painted black with brass rim/etc, or all polished? Note that the lens ring seems to be nickel. 

[1912Staver]

Can you show us some side photo's of the chimney area. Also the inside to see if there is any remains of the attachment for the mirror. How is the door latched in place ? This one looks like a fastner pokes thru the front of the door. Quite unlike any Solar I have seen.  I am still not quite convinced that this isn't a very early electric light. 

 

On the better model Solar's the chimney is often nickeled.

Edited September 7, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Chris Bamford]

6 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

…I am still not quite convinced that this isn't a very early electric light. 

 

On the better model Solar's the chimney is often nickeled.

Well, the chimney appears to be nickeled under the black paint,  the lamp has a chimney, and the electrical connection is at the bottom, where the acetylene connection would be, and is, on my pretty much identical 1912 Solar acetylene lamps. 
 

Funny way to make an electric head lamp…

[lump]

I'll take more photos. I really appreciate the input and advice from each of you. 

[Terry Bond]

Thought you might appreciate seeing a page from a Solar lamp catalog in my collection.  It's dated 1908 and shows combination black and brass or nickle finishes were available even then.  I've had a look at a number of images of Premier cars on the internet, and the electric lighting for them seems to have started around 1912.  the lamps shown however are of the conventional style.   Maybe there are Premier experts there who can shed more light on the lamp and approximately when it was in use.

 

If you want to restore it, do some research and find out what it should look like before you do anything.  To change it back to original,l burner assemblies are available.  The mirrors for the back however can be difficult to find as they are no being reproduced. 

 

Good luck on your project. 

Terry

[R Walling]

 Lump, The pics show a clear lens, so just have a glass shop cut one up for you. (better than nothing)

[1912Staver]

Hi Terry, do you have any newer Solar catalogs ? Circa 1912 ?

[Terry Bond]

Here is the SOLAR lamp listing from a 1913 catalog.  Electric lamps are distinctive - no chimney.  it's not necessary on an electric lamp and was not used.  

[BryanC17reo]

Can anyone help identify the headlights used on a 12 Reo The fifth? Steel and nickel acetylene.

[wayne sheldon]

Bryan, The lenses on that Reo look like "Flintex" lenses. They were used as factory original lenses of a few cars of the early 1920s, and also sold as after-market replacements. I had a 1924 Model T Ford that had them on it.  The Reo the fifth's headlamps would have originally been plain round glass.

Several states began requiring some sort of light spreading or diffusing technology around 1918, and automobile manufacturers began including it as standard lighting equipment in the couple years following. Prior to 1918, even most expensive automobiles had plain simple glass "lenses".

As for who made those headlamps? I don't know.

[BryanC17reo]

Thanks for your input Wayne !