36' Buick series 40 - 233 engine oil/coolant issue

[Manu]

Thanks guys. You are great.🙏

[Grimy]

That is the generic aftermarket R-1 unpressurized cap.  You 1936 owners correct me if I'm wrong, but the OEM cap (as on my 1934 56S of happy memory) was generally round with 2 or 3 corner ears plus about a 1" lever handle on one "corner" facing down from the horizontal about 30 degrees.

[Manu]

Hi guys. I have another problem. The engine is running again after reassembly, but no cooling water is circulating in the engine. I deliberately did not install a thermostat. I am therefore all the more surprised that there is no coolant in the engine. Can someone please give me some advice. Thank you very much.

Edited January 26 by Manu (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

If there is no cooling water circulating at all, it sounds like you have a bad water pump. If the water is circulating between the water pump and the radiator but not through the engine, you need to reinstall the thermostat and make sure the bypass valve is in place. The thermostat and bypass valve on this era of Buick both have to be in place to get the correct cooling circulation. 

[Manu]

Hi.

 

I rebuilt the thermostat housing and removed the bypass valve and replaced it with a freez plug. I then let the engine warm up in the stand until it was up to temperature. There is coolant in the cylinder head. But when I open or even remove the petcock on the side of the block, no coolant comes out. I have tried to clean and scrape out the hole mechanically but without success. Perhaps someone has an idea what I can do. I have discovered the product evaporust thermocure, but unfortunately it is not available in Luxembourg. Here is a video of the running engine. engine run

[nat]

6 hours ago, Manu said:

 

I rebuilt the thermostat housing and removed the bypass valve and replaced it with a freez plug.

     I think then freeze plug should have a 1/4" hole drilled in it.

Je pense que le bouchon de gel devrait avoir un trou de 1/4 de pouce percé.

 

6 hours ago, Manu said:

There is coolant in the cylinder head. But when I open or even remove the petcock on the side of the block, no coolant comes out. I

        When the cylinder head was removed would have been a good time to look into the cooling system, scrape and vacuum it.

       A tube on the end of a compressed air nozzle and/or turning a drill bit by hand in the petcock hole may clear the drain passage but do what you can to keep deposits from going through the radiator.

     Both white vinegar and muriatic acid will dissolve rust but muriatic acid must be neutralized afterwards. keep the radiator out of the equation while flushing the cooling system.

     The freeze plugs under the manifold could be removed/replaced to view a sample of the cooling jackets.

 

Une fois la culasse retirée, cela aurait été le bon moment pour examiner le système de refroidissement, le gratter et l'aspirer. Un tube à l'extrémité d'une buse à air comprimé et/ou le fait de tourner un foret à la main dans le robinet du robinet d'essence peuvent dégager le passage de la pluie, mais faites ce que vous pouvez pour empêcher les dépôts de traverser le radiateur. Le vinaigre blanc et l’acide muriatique dissolvent la rouille, mais l’acide muriatique doit ensuite être neutralisé. Gardez le radiateur hors de l'équation lors du rinçage du système de refroidissement. Les bouchons de gel sous le collecteur pourraient être retirés/remplacés pour visualiser un échantillon des chemises de refroidissement.

     Je suis désolé d'avoir utilisé Google Translate.

 

 

 

[MCHinson]

7 hours ago, Manu said:

Hi.

 

I rebuilt the thermostat housing and removed the bypass valve and replaced it with a freez plug. I then let the engine warm up in the stand until it was up to temperature. There is coolant in the cylinder head. But when I open or even remove the petcock on the side of the block, no coolant comes out. I have tried to clean and scrape out the hole mechanically but without success. Perhaps someone has an idea what I can do. I have discovered the product evaporust thermocure, but unfortunately it is not available in Luxembourg. Here is a video of the running engine. engine run

A stiff wire inserted into the petcock hole after removing the petcock will usually allow  you to "rod" out the deposited crud there so that coolant will then drain out of the hole.  I also recommend a 1/4 hole in the freeze plug that replaced the bypass valve will allow enough coolant to flow past the "bypass valve" to the thermostat so that it can be heated up so that the thermostat will open normally so that coolant can flow as it is supposed to. 

[Skidplate]

If you open up everything radiator related (drain plug and fill cap) and while the radiator is full but draining, you should be able to get some response from blowing air into that side drain hole on the block. As in, since the side petcock isn't doing anything anyway, remove it while you're working. Be aware not to just let her rip when you blow the air in. Maybe swing the blower from side to side across the hole until and even after water starts coming out. And once you start getting some flow, don't be surprised if it clogs back up again and again. Fill the radiator as much as it will take... start the engine... open the bottom petcock and remove the cap... blow into the side again... add more water at the radiator... Rinse. Repeat. Until nothing else dirty comes out.
 

Note: You can also remove your temp sensor and blow in through that to break things apart. I just left mine out and plugged it with a matching thread plug until all was clean to my liking. I put it back together just before adding my coolant.
 

At that point go ahead and put everything back together. Put in your acidic solution of choice and run it awhile. If you seem to have movement from your radiator through your engine (And you'll know if the side petcock drains out hot water). Then you've probably made substantial headway.
 

Go ahead and drain and rinse everything out. Fill with your coolant of choice and run it awhile. As in a month or two or longer. If you have one of those radiator-to-engine filter thingys that connects between your engine block and radiator that you can see through then put that in and watch it for those few months (and clean as necessary). If all stays clean then good for you. If it doesn't then chalk it all up to being umpteen years old and maybe do it all again until you're happy with its condition. 
 

I've never had much luck with acidic products. Not saying they don't work. Just no luck for me. If it's so weak to where it won't hurt anything internal, it doesn't really work. And if it's strong enough to actually do something substantial, it eats through something you probably didn't want eaten. 

Edited February 6 by Skidplate (see edit history)

[Manu]

Hi guys. Thanks for all the answers and ideas.

Yes, of course I drilled a 1/4" hole in the freeze plug and a new thermostat was also installed. When the engine was apart we scraped out the worst of the rust we could see and vacuumed it out. We did this for a long time because there was a lot of rust in the engine. I just don't want to use acid because I'm afraid it will eat the cylinder head gasket. Thermocure is made of a non-toxic and water-based solution that is easy-to-use on automotive cooling systems. It is non-corrosive and non-flammable.

[Skidplate]

If all of that was already done, is it possible the thermostat was installed backwards?

[Manu]

No😊

[neil morse]

The drain passage was blocked on my '41.  The tool that finally broke through the blockage turned out to be very simple -- just a piece of bent coat-hanger wire and an electric drill.  You can read about it here (click on the arrow in the upper right hand corner to get to the right starting post):

 

 

[Manu]

Thanks Neil. How deep is the hole passage?

[neil morse]

2 hours ago, Manu said:

Thanks Neil. How deep is the hole passage?

I'm not familiar with the 233 ci engine, but my assumption is that it's basically the same design as the 248 in my car.  The passage into the water jacket is pretty short.  You can see this from the cross-section drawing I posted of the 248 block in my thread (reproduced below).  But the problem is that the opening for the drain at the lowest point in a very narrow part of the water jacket.  So when that part of the water jacket gets filled up with rusty bits, it completely blocks the opening.  So you have to find someway of "drilling" through the accumulated shards of rust to open it up.  Of course it helps if you have the head off and the core plugs removed, as I did.  As you can from the little video I posted in my thread (as well as the photo that Gary W. posted on my thread), the drain plug opening lines up with one of the core plug openings on the other side of the block.

 

[nat]

     To prevent damage to the threads, remove the petcock, install a pipe nipple and start with a drill that will fit within the pipe nipple.

     Turn the drill by hand or with limited torque to reduce the likelihood of breaking the drill.  A larger drill might be used carefully when the passage is opened.

     7/16"/11mm is the largest drill that will pass through a hole with  1/4" pipe thread.  

 

     Pour éviter d'endommager les filetages, retirez le robinet, installez un raccord de tuyau et commencez avec une perceuse qui s'insèrera dans le raccord de tuyau. Tournez la perceuse à la main ou avec un couple limité pour réduire le risque de casse de la perceuse. Une perceuse plus grande peut être utilisée avec précaution lorsque le passage est ouvert. 7/16"/11 mm est le plus gros foret qui passera à travers un trou avec un filetage de tuyau de 1/4".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MCHinson]

I would not use a drill. All you should need is a stiff wire to break through the crud that has accumulated there. A wire coat hanger should work. I have used something smaller and less stiff than that myself. 

[neil morse]

 

[Manu]

Thank you for all your suggestions. The picture and the video from Neil helped me a lot to see how the whole thing is set up. I will try to clean the passage today. I will report back to you.🤞

Edited February 7 by Manu (see edit history)

[Manu]

Thanks Neil. It's done 👍

 

Video

 

Thank you all for your advices.

 

Manu

[neil morse]

Yay!  So glad that worked for you!