Fordy Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 Need is an evil thing. Working on a friend's car and he needs the fuel gauge. All that was left was broken bits of pot metal and smashed enamel face. Following on from the success of the throttle and spark levers I am having some 3D printed in Aluminum. Way more than I need and these will be available if people need them. (handles too). The enamel dial is also being replicated in quantity and it got to the stage of "what the heck" - if we are making one complete unit why not do several? So, the upshot is that we will have available ALL the parts that constitute the gauge. So if it's a complete assembly or just one part of it shoot me a PM and I should be able to help out. The first picture shows the plastic prototype and the second the dial faces we had. I will add more as the parts arrive from various suppliers and it all starts going together. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted May 29, 2023 Author Share Posted May 29, 2023 A quick update on this. The main Aluminum parts are on their way to me, and I have the lathe all set up ready to cut the fine thread where the main body screws into the neck. There is a bunch of the brass parts cut and ready for final forming of the required shape as well as blanks for the aluminum dial bezel. I have started on the tooling to do this part and the photos show attempt number 1 that has moved during the pressing out process, so I need to address this. The pick up tubing, valve rods, spiral rod all interchange with original components. The float in the pictures is actually the same size as the original behind it - perspective of the shot just makes it look larger. At time of writing, I am waiting for the glass covers to be cut and am still encountering "resistance" in finding someone willing to do a small batch of the dial faces in vitreous enamel. Lots of companies or people say "yes we can" but then offering completely different to what is being asked for. I expect just this part alone is going to become the most expensive item to have replicated "properly". Original batch will be 15 complete units of which 7 already have potential homes. There is also going to be available spare parts for the rest of the unit as these are being done in a quantity of 40 of each. The only part not being produced is the copper crush gasket as that is available from Restoration Supply Company. Send me a PM if you are interested in a complete unit or just certain parts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potmetalman Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 The gauge can be investment casted in bronze using the CAD file as well. investment casting would have eliminated the layer/bleed lines in the print. Regardless, it's a nice part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 23 hours ago, Potmetalman said: The gauge can be investment casted in bronze using the CAD file as well. investment casting would have eliminated the layer/bleed lines in the print. Regardless, it's a nice part. The layering apparent in the plastic bit is due to the print. resolution. The metal ones are less than 0.1mm between passes of the laser. These parts are due in any day now. The print has its advantages (and probably disadvantages) over investment casting mainly in the degree of machining to finalize is less. Any shrinkage in a casting could be compensated for in the modelling by slightly increasing the print scaling from 1:1 to a value appropriate for the metal used. I don't know the intricacies of the casting process but the steps of producing a mold, making waxes, assembling these on a tree with appropriate sprues and risers, burn out of the wax, casting and then removal from the investment and then machining all add to the costs I assume. Print is press the button, wait and then machining - elimination of the steps in between make printing to me the better option. Quotes I had to cast some were outrageous! I have the furnaces etc at my disposal as a pal does "art castings" in bronze. I have tried a few automotive parts and failed miserably. The printer has a "not for safety critical components" clause to cover his back as I assume there is potential for a failure along a layer interface and therefore in that instance a casting would provide a superior part as the metal pour provides one homogenized piece. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted June 1, 2023 Author Share Posted June 1, 2023 I have just taken delivery of 15 bodies and 20 levers from the printers. They need a slight tickle to have the levers fit plus machining the threads and inserting a bush for the spindle. Most of the other parts are prepped and the dial faces are being produced. There are 10 complete units being made and the rest is available as spares. If you want one of the raw bodies to do the machining yourself speak up now as they will be more expensive when I have spent time on them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) Fordy, My parents bought my 23 Model R 12 back in 1962. It became mine when they were lost in a tragic car accident in 1978. So I've been with this car a long time. But until you began this project, I never even knew that my Hupp would have originally had a lever to switch to reserve. I have no idea whether the lever broke when my parents drove this car so often, or if the lever had been gone before they bought the car. Any, my dial face is actually pretty save-able, I think, and it might be nice to have the original face stay with the car. Having said that, I wish to place my order now for a complete assembly. IF it is possible for you to build a complete assembly using my dial face, that would be a bonus. I'll attach some photos. I've been through a long series of trials with my original fuel gauge/fuel-pick-up assembly over the years. Jim Wirth Cell: 937-477-4725 First pic, as it looked mounted on my new gas tank a few years ago, after a local machinist stitched it back together for me. 2nd pic, after repair, just before installation. Edited June 21, 2023 by lump (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) But one day I looked at the gauge, and the remaining diecast material had failed again, losing my bezel and glass in the process. The use of plain steel Allen-head screws wasn't such a good choice either. 😒 Edited June 21, 2023 by lump (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 I see that my float-cork is exactly like the one shown in your photos. It's encouraging to think that after all these years, I may finally be able to solve this problem permanently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 But now you have me wondering if I am missing anything else on this assembly? Was there supposed to be any kind of screen or filter at the bottom of the pick-up tube? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) Hi Jim. Looking at the photos you have posted I think I can solve your problem by supplying just the main body and the lever plus the valve rod running up the pickup tube. Does your tube have a 1/8 diameter hole about 2" up from the base" if not then that has been swapped at some stage - the threaded portion at the bottom I don't think is standard - if a filter went there is a damn good idea though. You probably also need a cork. On the project, the dial faces and main bodies have been collected from the engravers today by a buddy and the threading and assembly will occur over the weekend. I have come up with a price of A$350 per completed unit (1A$ currently buys US$0.68) plus shipping. If you can utilize parts from your unit and just get what you need for repairs, then it will probably be around half that figure. I will send you a PM with a breakdown of parts and costs later (I already have your private email) Regards Steve Edited June 22, 2023 by Fordy (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted June 24, 2023 Author Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) Getting closer by the day with this. Couple of pictures showing a quick "mock - up" of the parts. I have the main thread to do plus the brass bush for the spindle and an internal taper that provides a vacuum seal on the valve rod. Hopefully completed units can be ready to ship by this time next week. I am fairly surprised at just how tough the printed metal is. It cuts and machines nicely but has a hardness more than aluminum bar stock this is from the supplier - "Aluminum (AlSi10Mg) is a strong, low weight material with good thermal properties. It’s printed by sintering aluminum powder together with a laser to produce metal parts that are equally as good as machined models. 3D-printed aluminum doesn’t look like traditional shiny milled aluminum. Instead, it has a matte gray finish with a slightly rougher and less defined surface. The subtle sparkle you’ll notice is caused by the presence of silicon in the alloy." And from the supplier of the actual powder used - AlSi10Mg has a chemical composition according to ASTM F3318 and is an essential aluminum alloy in the world of additive manufacturing. As a good casting alloy for complex geometries, it combines light weight and excellent thermal conductivity. The alloy is ideally suited for part designs with thin walls such as ductwork or heat exchangers. Once post-processed, parts offer good strength and hardness superior to conventionally cast material, as well as good dynamic properties for industries in the aerospace, automotive, automation and tooling sectors. In summary this aluminum alloy holds great promises to bring additive manufacturing to high volume consumer applications Edited June 24, 2023 by Fordy (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted August 9, 2023 Author Share Posted August 9, 2023 Hi All, This project is now at the ready to ship to those in need stage. All that is left is to box them up - there are still several more "in progress". Cost for a complete unit in Australian $ is A$390.00 which includes post to continental US and Europe. I also have a full range of spares if you want to rebuild your original. (most times the tubes etc are going to still be good). Send a PM if you are interested. Thanks Steve 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Depending on the length of the unit that extends down into the tank, these are the same as used in 1922 to '27 Franklins. The Franklin ones came in 11, 12, 14, and 17-9/16 inch lengths depending on Series/model year. Paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 I would like to buy two of these with length "A" of 11 inches as shown in this drawing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKiwi Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) I'm interested in 1 - item 31404 as shown in the drawing @Steve Braverman posted above - i.e. 12" long and with reserve hole 1½ up from bottom. I can pay you by bank transfer from Westpac in New Zealand (I live in the USA, but still have a WestPac bank account in New Zealand) or by PayPal, or by credit card if you can deal with that? Roger Edited August 9, 2023 by theKiwi (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted August 10, 2023 Author Share Posted August 10, 2023 Hupmobile ones are at 11 inches long. There is no reason why I cant make some with longer tubes - I just need to buy more materials Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 I need to order one complete unit right away, please. PM details to me, if you don't mind. Thanks, Steve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Goist Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 I am also interested in purchasing one of these. I know many Franklin Club members who need these. Thank you for taking the time to do this project. They look great! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted August 14, 2023 Author Share Posted August 14, 2023 On 8/12/2023 at 12:37 AM, Matt Goist said: I am also interested in purchasing one of these. I know many Franklin Club members who need these. Thank you for taking the time to do this project. They look great! I am amazed by the response these have had both here and on Hupp FB pages. I find it surprising that nobody seems to have done it already. I suppose the 3d printing lowers the unit cost and additional bodies are simply a click of the mouse. All the completed units have 11 inch tubes fitted but there are some waiting assembly of which I need to buy in more material to do a few at 12 inch as per a request. Anyone wanting one needs to send a message directly to me detailing what length tubes are needed (Thanks to Steve Braverman for the diagram with detail for Franklins). Bear in mind that the printed parts still need machining of threads etc. which add to cost as I pay someone to do this - so if you have the capabilities I can supply the parts in their raw state at a cheaper price - it definitely looks like more will be needed than what I currently have. The original tubing will fit the new bodies which I need to drill out to the correct size and the tubing I use is the same OD. There may be an issue with the ones longer than 12" as the square brass for the twisted rod I have only found available in 12" lengths. I need to enquire with the supplier if they can do longer lengths. Steve 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 A member of the Franklin Club made copies many years back. He passed away and his son has not continued making them. One of those repros is on my stepson's 26 Franklin. Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward DePouli Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 I would also order an 11-inch gauge for qa 1922 Franklin if I knew how to transmit the order ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 4 hours ago, Edward DePouli said: I would also order an 11-inch gauge for qa 1922 Franklin if I knew how to transmit the order ed I have sent you all the required info as a direct message. Check the top right of your screen and there will be an envelope icon (probably now with a number next to it) -click that and it will open the message - you will need to respond using the email address supplied within that message as you do not have enough posts here to use the forum's system. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmsue Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 I'm working on getting a 1925 Sterling-Knight back on the road and encountered a fuel gauge that is falling apart. I thought maybe I could repair it but the lever indicating supply or reserve was missing. So I went on the forum and made a search for what the lever might look like and ...low and behold I found the exact gauge in this post. I knew many manufacturers borrowed parts to make their cars but I am thrilled to find the gauge. The AACA Forum is GREAT. Thanks, Bill PM sent to Fordy regarding purchase. Thanks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted March 31 Author Share Posted March 31 10 hours ago, wmsue said: I knew many manufacturers borrowed parts to make their cars but I am thrilled to find the gauge. I am definitely happy to find another make they fit. Currently mid-way through another 10 of these and doing a couple to suit the early Franklins that are similar but minus the tubing and reserve selection - much simpler also = cheaper so I will be "testing the water" with the first 2. Those ones have the Franklin script on the dial but I suspect they were also fitted to other makes. Currently corresponding with Bill regarding his needs. Steve 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmsue Posted Tuesday at 11:53 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 11:53 PM (edited) Can't say enough GOOD things about our new gas gauge. Steve did an amazing job building the gauge for our 1925 Sterling-Knight at the National Packard Museum. It came well packaged and wrapped in bubble wrap. It was a long trip from Australia to Ohio, USA and it made it safely. We'll be installing the gauge this week and be able to show off our 99 year old car this summer. Thanks Steve for saving so many cars. Bill National Packard Museum Car Collection Coordinator Edited Wednesday at 12:01 AM by wmsue added photo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted Thursday at 09:36 AM Author Share Posted Thursday at 09:36 AM All too happy to contribute what I can from down here in the Southern Hemisphere. I am not sure if any of my hats now fit after doing this one! Being unable to work due to injury, this sort of thing that I can do within my own limits and timelines helps sanity remain intact! Currently doing a few front brake parts for Model A Hupps for myself and a few other people copying some originals sent to me from New Zealand. I am always amazed at how the genuine enthusiasts "chip in" and provide help when needed. Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKiwi Posted Thursday at 10:43 AM Share Posted Thursday at 10:43 AM Hi - are the Franklin ones still ongoing? I'm not in a hurry, but will take one as soon as you've got them made. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted Thursday at 07:28 PM Author Share Posted Thursday at 07:28 PM 8 hours ago, theKiwi said: Hi - are the Franklin ones still ongoing? I'm not in a hurry, but will take one as soon as you've got them made. Roger Roger, they certainly are - I just need to know the length needed (and the point on the main body where this is taken from). Some of the ones I have sent out are 3/8 too long on the main tube due to me using the actual length of the tube uninserted in the housing as this is what gave me the original 11 inch on the Hupp ones. I have taken to moving the lower pivot up by that amount to allow for trimming if needed. I am also working on the 1922 Franklin type without the pick up tube - just need to find time to make the tooling for the glass bezel in amongst other "odd jobs". Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKiwi Posted yesterday at 12:32 AM Share Posted yesterday at 12:32 AM 5 hours ago, Fordy said: Roger, they certainly are - I just need to know the length needed (and the point on the main body where this is taken from). Some of the ones I have sent out are 3/8 too long on the main tube due to me using the actual length of the tube uninserted in the housing as this is what gave me the original 11 inch on the Hupp ones. I have taken to moving the lower pivot up by that amount to allow for trimming if needed. I am also working on the 1922 Franklin type without the pick up tube - just need to find time to make the tooling for the glass bezel in amongst other "odd jobs". Steve Does this drawing answer the question, or do you need more. I have a Series 11A Sedan as indicated in the lower right corner in the list of applicable models. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKiwi Posted yesterday at 02:07 AM Share Posted yesterday at 02:07 AM Here's another drawing for other Franklin models Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted yesterday at 03:37 AM Author Share Posted yesterday at 03:37 AM I can do one as per the second drawing at 12" from the underside of the hex to the base of tube, I will PM when I have one ready to go. The first drawing with the side inlet I would need to get the 3d model done using the current one as a base reference. This would incur an additional expense if that is what you want. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKiwi Posted yesterday at 11:04 AM Share Posted yesterday at 11:04 AM 7 hours ago, Fordy said: I can do one as per the second drawing at 12" from the underside of the hex to the base of tube, I will PM when I have one ready to go. The first drawing with the side inlet I would need to get the 3d model done using the current one as a base reference. This would incur an additional expense if that is what you want. Steve The design of the second one is fine. I can't easily measure my tank depth at the moment, but perhaps can you make it 11½ long, incase there's any problem with my tank not being as tall as it should be? Thanks Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted 21 hours ago Author Share Posted 21 hours ago 11 hours ago, theKiwi said: The design of the second one is fine. I can't easily measure my tank depth at the moment, but perhaps can you make it 11½ long, incase there's any problem with my tank not being as tall as it should be? I will do it at the 12 inch, but move the lower spindle pivot up by 1 inch. That way you have 1 inch that can be trimmed back to where it is just up from the bottom of the tank. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKiwi Posted 20 hours ago Share Posted 20 hours ago 1 hour ago, Fordy said: I will do it at the 12 inch, but move the lower spindle pivot up by 1 inch. That way you have 1 inch that can be trimmed back to where it is just up from the bottom of the tank. Steve Steve - that sounds great - let me know what I need to pay you once it's ready. Cheers Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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