Deadly garage collapse in New York City due to building's nearly 100-year-old age

[Crusty Trucker]

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/deadly-garage-collapse-in-new-york-city-due-to-building-s-nearly-100-year-old-age-too-many-vehicles-on-roof/ar-AA1a46PV?li=BBnbcA1&ocid=mailsignout

[John_S_in_Penna]

Typical newsmen!  Writing about engineering when

they don't know much about the subject.

 

A "nearly 100-year-old building" is not old, or inherently

dangerous.  Europe's buildings can easily be 500 years

old and still happily in sound use.  Some buildings may be

1000 years old. 

 

"Too many cars on the roof," which the article also notes,

is a much more likely culprit.  Even if the building was open

for only ONE DAY, exceeding the allowable load could

cause a collapse.

[Reynard]

Reading the article shows the structure was deteriorating for a number of years:

 

There were open violations on the building, records show, including one from November 2003 that was considered hazardous. The violation stated the building had "first floor ceiling slab cracks" as well as "defective concrete with exposed rear cracks."

 

The city obviously inspected the building, noted safety problems, and cited the owners who did nothing to rectify the danger. Whether the government was lax in pursuing a remedy or there were other "political" problems preventing the remedy, was not stated.

 

Wherever the blame lands, "you can't fix stupid".

 

In this case, it isn't the "typical newsman" (the messenger) nor the message that should be blamed. 

The city and the building owners are responsible for the death and damage.

 

There is nothing in this article that diminishes the warning stated in the original post.

[Studemax]

Too many electric cars parked in spots engineered for gas powered cars.

[ply33]

33 minutes ago, Studemax said:

Too many electric cars parked in spots engineered for gas powered cars.

Hmmm.

 

I follow EV development and while I don't recognize all of the current EVs I do recognize many. None of the vehicles in that photo look like an EV only model car to me. They all look like internal combustion cars to me. Maybe a few of them are an EV version of a vehicle that is mostly sold as an internal combustion engined model, but the vast majority in that photo are gas powered.

 

A 100 year old building would be early 1920s. The predominate car on the road then was a Model T Ford. I am no expert on them but Wikipedia says they weighed between 1200 and 1650 lbs. Lets go for 2000 lbs on the assumption that there were heavier cars in the mix that the Model T. For a check point, my early 1930s sedan clocked in a 2600 lbs and Wikipedia tells me that a Model A Ford weighed between 2,265 and 2,465 lbs. So I think around 2,000 for a car from the early 20s is not too far off.

 

Looking at the photo most of the cars in the picture seem to be something on the order of mid-sized SUV. Searching the web, the typical weight of a mid-sized SUV seems to be around 4,000 lbs, twice as heavy as a 1920s car.

 

If you want to blame it on vehicle weight, fine. But the weight is not in the batteries for those cars as they are not EVs.

 

Given the inspection violations and overall condition of the structure, I would lean toward bad maintenance as a leading cause.

[Walt G]

7 hours ago, ply33 said:

Given the inspection violations and overall condition of the structure, I would lean toward bad maintenance as a leading cause.

More likely NO MAINTENANCE. Ignore what is wrong, it isn't totally broken yet so why spend the $ to fix it? Now people are gone, dead because of greed . No $ fine can fix that , the penalty should be the severest possible  to all parties concerned and connected to this horrible event.

[8E45E]

I would not be surprised if it was from 'lack of maintenance' and not from 'poor engineering'.   After all, it supported vehicles for 100 years.   Poor engineering is when a structure collapses either during, or not long after completion.  Some examples include the infamous Tacoma Narrows Bridge and others:

 

Not to mention, some never even completed before they collapsed:  Quebec Bridge Disaster | The Canadian Encyclopedia

 

 West Gate Bridge disaster still haunts the men who were there, 50 years on - ABC News

 

5 Years Later, Bridge Collapse Near Florida International University Remembered – NBC 6 South Florida (nbcmiami.com)

 

Examples of lack of maintenance and necessary repairs being held off until the inevitable took place include the I-35 bridge in Minneapolis which collapsed in 2007 when it was 40 years old, and the Morandi Bridge in Genoa in Italy at just over 50 years of age in 2018.    And it appears this example is part of the list.

 

What caused the Genoa bridge collapse – and the end of an Italian national myth? | Cities | The Guardian

 

Craig

Edited April 21, 2023 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

9 hours ago, Reynard said:

The city and the building owners are responsible for the death and damage.

I agree with that, Mr. Reynard.

 

9 hours ago, Reynard said:

In this case, it isn't the "typical newsman" (the messenger) nor the message that should be blamed. 

We would all be better informed from an account written

by an engineer--someone with technical knowledge

who has done some research--as in the magazine

Engineering News-Record, and who can parse the story

for laymen.  Otherwise, it's like a reporter whose last

story was about a hurricane trying to write authoritatively

about automotive history!

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Reynard]

9 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

I agree with that, Mr. Reynard.

 

We would all be better informed from an account written

by an engineer--someone with technical knowledge

who has done some research--as in the magazine

Engineering News-Record, and who can parse the story

for laymen.  Otherwise, it's like a reporter whose last

story was about a hurricane trying to write authoritatively

about automotive history!

 

 

 

I would presume that the city employs engineers that inspect buildings and cite problems ...

and  NOT INTERNET REPORTERS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[f.f.jones]

On a related note, in 1940, a four month old suspension bridge in Washington state collapsed due to design errors. The Tacoma Narrows bridge - the collapse was filmed as below: