BRASS - Lamps, Horns, etc.

[Terry Bond]

I've been encouraged to start this thread so here goes -

For all you brass collectors - lamps,. horns, etc. for early automobiles or motorcycles, show us your brass.  Ask your questions.  Submit photos of any literature you have (catalogs, advertisements, brochures, etc.) and of course lamps from your collections, on your bookshelves, or hanging from the rafters in your garage. Let's try and get this stuff in one place so we can share and enjoy it. No, I've not yet started a book on the topic, and may not for quite a while yet, but for those who have been looking for more of it, maybe this will be the place. 

 

I'll start with a photo of one of my favorites - a nice self-generating headlamp made in France and labeled "Veena."    I bought it at Hershey from a vendor close to my spaces.  It was a guy clearing out his grand-dad's collection.  My guess is this early piece was suitable to use on a small vehicle where a single lamp would be mounted out front.  Probably from the early 1900s.  Any info on it would be appreciated. There were some mighty-nice lamps there and I bought a few, probably ahead of most other collectors roaming around that year. In fact, I went back later and bought a few more.  It was good year! 

 

Not long ago I found this great early 1900s self-generating Autolyte headlamp.  These came in several different sizes.  I have another one almost identical only larger.  This photo was taken before I gave it a good polish with semichrome.   Included also is an advertisement showing the lamp dated 1904.

 

Ok-who's next to show off some brass!

 

Terry

Edited February 17, 2023 by Terry Bond (see edit history)

[Walt G]

This is GREAT Terry! I will contribute some of the ones I have here but will start by showing what the loft above the L.I. Automotive Museum looked like 45 years ago. That was Austin Clark's place in Southampton. Building now gone . He had hundreds of lamps on shelves up in that area and more hanging from the bail handles from the ceiling.

Some in the oak cabinets on the main floor of the museum. that is Austin standing near the shelves .

 

[Walt G]

Dietz No. 3 . These were at the L.I. Auto Museum on display in a huge carved oak china cabinet with a mirrored back  that let you see the rear of what was in the cabinet. I bought the pair of lamps and the china cabinet that was purchased by Austin Clark's  parents prior to 1910.  I still have the china cabinet as well as the lamps. the lamps are huge  approximately 8 + inches in diameter for the front glass.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Walt G
spelling correction (see edit history)

[Terry Bond]

Wonderful lamps Walt!  Those photos of the loft at the museum are great  Sure brings back memories of seeing lamps hidden away in other places. I never got into the loft but do have a few spark plugs in my collection that came from the museum.  This postcard from my collection is shows the interior of the Autolight and Motor Supply Company In Philly.  Not sure what the year was but wow, wouldn't you like to travel back in time!

Edited February 18, 2023 by Terry Bond (see edit history)

[Walt G]

GREAT postcard Terry!

Come on everyone, it has been nearly 24 hours ago that our friend Terry started this thread after being encouraged to do so. ( I know one of the people that urged him to do so but ain't gonna tell) More from me in a short while.

[Walt G]

Triple twist horn was made by Rubes, 10 1/2 overall height and horn face is 5 1/2 x  7 1/2

Brass 'insulated kerosene" lamps are a marched pair by Neverout made in Philadelphia by the Rose Mfg. Company.  4 1/4 inch face 8 inches tall to top of chimney.

Of all the lamps I have these are my favorite - rarest? no. BUT have special meaning for me.

On my first trip to Hershey in 1965 my goal was to buy a brass lamp, because that is what really old cars in 1965 had - brass lamps. I found the right side Neverout which had some cracks in the brass but it was my PRIZE to bring home . I finally had a really old piece of an old car . ( I owned a 1931 Plymouth PA sedan I was working on and most other kids my age were attending sports games and dances at jr. high school while I was being picked up by car friends and going to meets and riding around in cars with running boards) I eventually found the left side lamp to make it a pair more then a decade later. I recall I paid $8.00 for the light ( it was marked $12) and told my parents I paid $6.00 because I used some of my lunch money for school to buy it. Yes, still crazy after all these years..............................😇

[Terry Bond]

It's always great trying to learn more about things in our collections.  I've always been amazed when set up at our local swap meet where I usually have a few brass lamps on the table.  Lots of people have no idea of the history of early automobile lighting.  "Are these for trains?"
 is often asked frequently.   Here is a neat video of our friend Walt Gosden doing a local TV program that he originally created and hosts for his local TV station.  In this segment, he discusses early automotive lighting - some good info and a chance for you to meet him if you haven't already spent time visiting with him at Hershey.  I could spend hours talking with him there.  Enjoy -

 

https://4vs.org/4VS-WatchNowPage3-TheAntiqueRoadTest-28.php

[Terry Bond]

And speaking of brass - here are a couple of sidelamps from my collection.  These are English and are actually never-used.  I bought them in a Virginia antique shop in a shop that sells a lot of horse-related stuff.  They were marked as "carriage" lamps and were priced surprisingly cheap.  The cut-glass lens is beautiful and the original nickle plating is still in fabulous condition.

 

I've had a couple of questions about who made these lamps so have edited to include some additional photos.  They were produced by Oldfield in England.  The were a prominent maker of high-end lamps.  There is a tag attached to the lower edge under the front glass lens that has "Colty" on it.  Digging around I've learned that Colty was a body maker specializing is town-cars and limousines.  They began as carriage makers before producing bodies for early automobiles.  These lamps must have been supplied on one of the limousines they produced.

Terry

Edited February 21, 2023 by Terry Bond (see edit history)

[Walt G]

WOW Terry those English made side lights are outstanding - note the cut glass design that they have as well at the center. AMAZING.

this is the reason some ( all??) of us collect stuff like this - eye candy. Makes us feel just so great to see and think of who was laboring to make these over a century ago?  AND that they still survive.

Th local TV show I did that Terry mentions - we did one on the AACA Fall meet at Hershey as well a short time ago and about 20 other topics relating to vehicles. The audience is not car type people, but the topics are so odd to the "normal" people who watch that they seem to be well received . The studio is totally volunteer and 5 + people devote their time and effort to make it all happen. Many are my former students who were in my art class.

And I will end this to say there will never be enough time to talk to my friend Terry anyplace , ever, we have so many similar collecting interests and love it all for what it is, not because of some "investment" factor.

Walt

Edited February 20, 2023 by Walt G (see edit history)

[Walt G]

This is a self generating "motor head lamp" made in Birmingham, England by Powell & Hanmer.

these contained their own fuel supply to use when lit. Were popular on very early brass era cars immediately after the turn of the century in 1900.

With the top open you can see the canister that is inside and can be removed . It is 11 inches long, 7 inches wide and about 8 inches tall and very very heavy. It is just so beautifully made , note the holes to vent the heat so neatly spaced and drilled

I bought it at Hershey when there was a blue field in the flea market.. Dr. Sam Sher had donated his brass lamp collection to the Henry Ford Museum ( as it was called at the time) and since they are an American museum they decided to part with all the non USA brass lamps to make room after several years . Randy Mason who worked for the HFM and was a really great fellow brought all the lamps to be sold off down from Michigan in a rented truck. Dave Brownell was a friend and we were both active in the Society of Automotive Historians at that time  ( I still am). He told me about the lamps as he had bought some as he loved brass era cars . I went and saw this lamp and had to have it, so made a deposit and got it the following day after selling some stuff. The greatest memory besides getting that lamp that day was when carrying it back to the car I saw two fellows walking towards me about 100 feet away, they immediately saw the lamp and started to comment to each other. As they walked past me one said to the other in a heavy Southern accent " there isn't enough polish in my whole county to clean that". I had to stop walking I started to laugh so hard.

Some years the 'treasures " we find at Hershey are larger and heavier then others.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Walt G (see edit history)

[Terry Bond]

Great lamp Walt, and a great story to match.  There have been so many amazing Hershey finds, perhaps we should start a separate thread on that?  No, let's stick with brass and toss in the stories as they float to top of the old memory pile!

Here is one of my Hershey finds from a few years ago -

spotted a table full of brass freshly being unpacked.  The crowd was on that load like flies on stink!   When I saw money waving around and people walking off clutching their treasures i felt I was just a bit too late to snag any goodies.  Then as I got close to the table, another box came out - this beautiful little lamp quickly got snagged by someone else, but the price wasn't right so he made the mistake of putting it down.  As soon as his fingers were clear, someone else grabbed it.  I just wasn't close enough!   The guy fondled it for a long time, and when he got to the price, the vendor grabbed it back and set it down on the table.  It already had a price tag on it and the seller let the guy know that was it!  The prospective buyer balked and turned away.  My $100 bill was in that vendors hand and I snagged the lamp so fast I think everyone was startled.  No sooner had I started to tuck it safely into my bag, and the guy who decided he didn't like the price turned and asked if I was going to keep it or sell it.  It's still here!  It's a very early motorcycle lamp but has no maker's name on it unfortunately. Wish I knew more about it.

Terry

[Terry Bond]

Looking through some photos trying to find a few more lamps to post, I came across these pics I captured from the internet a while back. I believe it was an auction somewhere.  I don't have any info about who, where, or when, so if anyone remembers this great collection, chime in.  Was there a buyer for most of these and did they end up in a collection somewhere?

Terry

 

[Walt G]

Ok all of you, stop "thinking" about all the polishing of the lamps you see here or the ones you have and get some photos posted here to support this great thread/topic that Terry started after a few of his buddies got on his case to get this going. Remember this is not just about lamps, but horns, etc. as well.

[Swear57]

Those are great lights & how you acquired them. I don't have any lights like that. Wish I had some.

[Terry Bond]

Searching for them is half the fun (if not more).  It's surprising how often I pick up leads from people who somehow learn that I have an interest in these things.  I've had stuff literally delivered to me.  Many times while just hanging around my spaces at Hershey I've had people come by and ask if I was interested in buying brass lamps.  I think the best lead i ever had was when a young man walked up to me at a local swap meet and said he'd done some paint work on the house of an elderly couple who had given him several boxes of lights in part payment for his work.  There were some early Model T lamps in those boxes from a car that was sold by the family years earlier.  They kept the lamps!  Sometimes, you get lucky and acquire an entire collection.   Years ago I was contacted by someone we'd toured with before about brass lamps.  He was giving up the large warehouse he rented for his cars, and moving into a much smaller building.  I bought an entire collection of lamps, horns, etc.  I was able to move some of the less desirable pieces along at Hershey over the next couple of years  We were both happy.

 

Terry

 

[Walt G]

Have to keep this going everyone!!

The brass smoking  pipe shaped horn with the ball shape measuring 3 1/2 inches

the other many twist/curled horn is 9 inches overall diameter. and as you can see I have the brass tube for it that then

would have the rubber ball at the end to squeeze to make it work.  Yes I have collections of collections. Most all of it is

very visual to go along with all the period literature, photographs, periodicals, books, etc. and is the life of the stories I write.

Yes, the horns shown need a good polish. - that is an on going never ending task.

[Terry Bond]

Wonderful horns Walt.  They are commonly known as Potato horns (I guess because of the bulbous end). The came in a variety of shapes and sizes.  Beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

 

Forum is open to pics of horns too!  What do you have in your collections?

Terry

[Terry Bond]

This is a three-lamp set intended for early motorists to carry as spares.  These came about during the time cars were transitioning from gas to electric lighting.  A lot of motorists didn't really trust the reliability of electric lighting when it was first introduced.  Sometimes for good reason - the Model T is a perfect example of the inadequacies of magneto lighting systems on early cars.  How bright the bulbs were was dependent on car speed. Going fast sometimes meant out running the lamps useful range, or even blowing the bulb.  Carrying spare lamps might give you a better chance of getting home safely in the dark.   This British made set consists of two side-lamps and a tail-lamp, all kerosene fueled.  It's complete with its own carrying box that could be attached to the running board.  These sets are sometimes found with lamps that were never used. 

Terry

[Terry Bond]

A find this weekend at a local swap meet!

 

[Terry Bond]

This one is looking for its mate.  I have had this for a few years now and have been searching for the other one to make a pair (left and right).  I've seen a couple of them the same side as mine, and one that needed new glass  not easy on this one with the curved and beveled lens!   This lamp seems to never have been used.  It is completely original with pristine silver plating inside.  The chimney and burner are absolutely soot-free and show no signs of ever having been lit.  Of course finding a NOS mate for it might be difficult, but the hunt continues.  Photos are pre-polishing it with a little semi-chrome polish and a soft cloth. Last photo is after polishing.

Terry

[Terry Bond]

Thought you might enjoy seeing a couple of pages from some of my early accessory catalogs and periodicals.  The lamps available back then were simply amazing.  There was a big market for them.  Gas and oil lamps went out of fashion pretty quickly and I'm sure old stocks of them remained unsold for a long time. Occasionally, we still encounter NOS items.

Terry

Edited April 3, 2023 by Terry Bond (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

This forum is of interest to any of us who are infatuated with all things Brass Era.

Al

[Terry Bond]

Here is another photo - this one is the Bertram Auto Supply Company, I believe it was in Iowa.  This is their 'brass goods department."  Wouldn't you like to step back in time to see this!  Or better yet,  get into their stock room and help clean things out after electric lighting became popular.

Terry

 

[Terry Bond]

Just added these to my collection.  They are Dietz Orient.  They appear to have never been lit.  No soot inside, no signs of use.  NOS? Early reproductions?  Well restored originals never used?   Don't know for certain.  Aside from the patina of age, they are absolutely beautiful.  Very temped to just leave them as is rather than polish. 

Terry

 

[Barney Eaton]

What secret tools do you use to polish them..... how do you get into the tight corners and cracks.  

I have some brass scales and need some advise. 

[Walt G]

I have used thicker pipe cleaners ( go to a arts and crafts supply store to purchase ) with the liquid polish to get the polish in, and then another clean one to get it out and polish. Does not happen in a hurry. Soft plastic wool can help to get the tarnish with the brass cleaner started.

[Terry Bond]

This can be like asking for our favorite brand of oil.

 

For absolutely tough crud, Bar-Keepers Friend is handy  Use a microfiber cloth or soft sponge to apply and scrub lightly.  it will eat away most nasty stuff nicely.  Use sparingly though, and rinse thoroughly as it will really eat away at the brass quickly, resulting in a coppery finish if not careful   Thorough polishing after that treatment will be required.   Also super aggressive is Lysol toilet bowl cleaner.  I won't be using either of these on my lamps if I decide to polish them a bit. 

 

My polish of choice is semi-chrome.  It leaves almost no residue behind in the crevices.  For tight spaces I've used small wooden sticks (popsickle sticks) with felt pads wrapped around them.  Small soft brushes work well also. 

 

Every brass guy has their own personal favorites in product or technique so just experiment a bit on some scrap brass and see what you would think is best for your application. 

 

Sometimes the patina of age is the most appropriate finish too.

Terry

[alsfarms]

The above attached image says volumes. When you play with old brass, the only way around sweat equity (elbow grease) is to hire someone else to do the dirty work! Get in and simply get your feet wet, so to speak. Before long you will be an expert in your own style of Brass work/polishing.

Al

[Walt G]

At times the best hours to spend doing this is while watching mindless tv programs. At least by the time you give up watching the show you have cleaned part of what you want to see polished.

[Walt G]

Ok, I took my own advice above about polishing lamps and did this this morning to one of the few  I have. I DO NOT KNOW THE MAKER there is nothing on the lamp itself to state maker, location of manufacture, numbers etc. it is 10 inches long total face to tip, rim in front is 7 1//2 inches and the top chimney plate is 5 3/4 inches long. I await to hear from Terry Bond as to who made it.

Can anyone comment as to who made it?  I bought it from Austin Clark about 50 years ago. He had it on display in an oak Victorian china cabinet at his museum, I later bought the china cabinet- it was easier to get the lamp home then the china cabinet !!!

[alsfarms]

Walt, good job on the polish work. I can't answer as to the MFG'r. But it has the similar looks of early Solar. I have a pair of early Solar Copper and Brass headlamps. I am anxious to learn what your lamp.

Al

[Walt G]

Thanks Al, I like to polish, want all the lamps, horns etc I have to shine brightly then after doing all the bits etc of one put the rest off and months go by.  I tell some people that my fingers ache from polishing and the look at me thinking I was my car every day - yes they know I have and drive old cars. I usually mention brass lamps etc. 

I get some communications from people who know I am retired and smiling say " hope you are keeping busy" _ Keeping Busy ?!?  or BUSY WORK. What's Dat?

Only time I am not active is when I am asleep. I never understood the "keeping busy" praise.

[alsfarms]

I suspect that you and I have a similar philosophy on life and time usage or waste. I enjoy many things with antique automobiles being only one. I also farm and run a small orchard and find both of those things very personally rewarding. This is going to be a good fruit year! Good apricot nectar, virgin grape juice and apple cider....along with Black berries, plums, prunes, peaches and pears. My English Walnut tree is going to do me proud this year!  What is your next polish job?  Do you put some kind of wax or finish polish on to slow down the development of "Patina"?

[Walt G]

I used to give the brass lamps a light coat of wax but  don't do that any longer.  The old cars and automobilia are of great interest but so are things of a similar vintage  ( WWI to WWII) like pressed steel toys/pedal cars , and pre WWI music  boxes both disc and cylinder, horn phonographs, etc. My current project is to oil/lube a Wurlitzer juke box I restored 35 years ago and get that working again. I am an active historian of non car subjects as well and have written a book on the village my family has resided in for the last century.  The research and writing of stories I do on automobiles takes up a lot of time to give it proper perspective. I enjoy visiting the sites/seeing the buildings that held automotive interests - coach builders factories, dealership buildings, etc.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Walt G (see edit history)