Perfectionism in cars

[jframe]

On 12/14/2022 at 6:29 AM, Machine Gun said:

I've never wanted a show-quality car, or a "perfect" car for a few reasons. First, I never had the money to farm out restoration work, nor do I have the skills to do paint and body work myself. Second, I don't have the patience to lay up a car for years while I work to get it on the road. Finally, and perhaps the most important reason is that my enjoyment of having an old car comes simply from driving it. My car needs to be safe, reliable, as original as practical to maintain safety and reliability, and preserved from (further) deterioration. Now the car has to be reasonably presentable to start with. I don't want it to scare children or serve as a visual substitute for ipecac.

 

I take my Skylark everywhere: the supermarket, cruise-ins, church, Route 66, etc. And I don't park at the farthest, most desolate corner of a parking lot...I park among the plebeians. The closest to perfection I want in my car is for everything to work. If the car has an accessory that's not working, I have to fix it, regardless of whether I will use it. It's an OCD thing. I honestly appreciate and applaud those who have the desire, skill, and means to bring their cars to their standard of perfection, but I'm not sure that I'd go that route even if I could.

This makes perfect sense to me as well. My 65 Riviera gets driven as often as possible. Been down a month with a broken water crossover, and all the accessories off the engine to replace it. Buddy of mine says I need to make sure and clean the block and heads, and repaint them before I put it back together. I told him there was no sense in that because I'm going to drive it just as often as I always have. I did repaint the brackets and water crossover and so forth while they are off, but I just don't get degreasing the block and repainting a bunch of stuff that gets covered up by the accessories anyway. The car really doesn't look bad under the hood at all, it's just not PERFECT, and if it was, I wouldn't drive it, and what is the sense in that?

[Terry Wiegand]

I have gotten quite a few grins and laughs out of this topic's postings.  The terms 'show cars' and 'trailer queens' very quickly come to mind here.  I once belonged to this car club that is operated on the idea that My Checkbook is Bigger Than Yours and therefore my car is better than yours will ever be.  I personally know of several of these cars that are owned by a few members that do not even run.  They are pushed from the trailer onto the show field, they get their much sought after award, and are then pushed back into the trailer.  I personally do not see any fun in that whatsoever.  When I put our '16 Buick back together so that it could get back on the road, I tried my hardest and best to do things correctly and carefully.  Was I able to do every single thing myself? - absolutely not.  Having the engine rebuilt, having paintwork done, and having plating work completed were but a few things that I was not capable of doing myself.  When the car was finished up and finally able to be driven it was not considered to be a 'perfect' automobile and it never will be.  It is as nice as I am capable of getting it to be and we will try our hardest to take very good care of it and maintain it as best that we can.  For myself, personally, there is a huge amount of satisfaction in being able to put things back into working order and do things in such a way that the result shows the effort that went into the restoration.  I took the car to East Moline last Summer for the AACA Central Fall Meet.  It won a National Award the first and only time that it has ever been shown.  I'm pretty proud of the ol' gal for that.  I'm really not into the judging mentality like some folks are.  We simply wanted to have the car looked at just one time to sorta make sure that things were done right.  The judging folks must have liked what they saw because they gave the car some recognition.  From this point forward it is all about driving the car and having tons of fun doing that.  If you cannot drive these old vehicles what is the point.  Just one persons point of view here.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

AACA Life Member #947918

[old-tank]

7 hours ago, Terry Wiegand said:

The terms 'show cars' and 'trailer queens' very quickly come to mind here.  I once belonged to this car club that is operated on the idea that My Checkbook is Bigger Than Yours and therefore my car is better than yours will ever be.  

There you go again.  Sad!

[NTX5467]

The "checkbook issue" exists in many high-level car clubs.  I just hope that THEY get what they paid for.

 

As allegedly "bad" as the economy has been for several years now, there are LOTS of people spending over $100.00/labor hour to get their cars done.  These same people usually have about $250K of rolling stock in their driveways for daily use.  Plus live a house valued at $400K out in the country.  Living "in the country" has its own overhead in driving an hour to work, one way, each day, too.  To be sure, they accrued all of that debt when interest rates were zilch, but they still had to have some income to get the loans, anyway.  Economy must be better than the figures imply!  Far too many people getting cars done.

 

BTAIM,

NTX5467

[B Jake Moran]

On 2/9/2023 at 7:02 PM, old-tank said:

There you go again.  Sad!

NOT sad, quite valid and you know it Willie.  Look, I get it, we don't need to go down this tired old road again, and we can agree to disagree, your club is in theory all inclusive and for everyone.  But it's very existence is tied to that stupid ideology of getting a plastic trophy for a car we will likely never see again and for which the rich owner is not truly a hard core enjoyer of Buicks.  

 

I am not wasting my time and looking through the awards of the past 5-7 years in your club to see how many Gold Senior winners have since dropped out of your club after winning a trophy, which their widows will likely toss in the trash 5 more years from now.  No, they can stare at their artifact in the garage while they get even more senile.  

 

Drive your car, don't show it for awards sake. 

[old-tank]

Edited February 12, 2023 by old-tank (see edit history)

[cxgvd]

I talked with a fellow who works for RM Restorations in Blenheim, On and he told me since they won Best of Show at Pebble Beach (for the seventh time) last August the shop is busier than ever.  In March they are having a job fair to recruit more techs and are especially hoping to get high school graduates they can sign up as apprentices and train.  There is a whole world out there outside of yours.

 

Respectfully submitted, Gary

[human-potato_hybrid]

On 12/14/2022 at 8:26 AM, NTX5467 said:

When we are typically younger, we have pride in our cars and want to make then "better than new" in anything we might do with them.  Whether an engine rebuild, body work, detailing, etc.  THEN when we realize the realities of production line/mass production, some of the "indiscretions" become more-allowable, generally.  Like looking at how the paint spray hit the emblems, leaving one side "light/feathered-out" and the other side "barely covered", for example.  Yet for restoration, knowing everybody might judge the quality by everything being "up to snuff", we ensure that such paint is evenly-applied and very-neatly done.

Example: Packard (circa 1950's), for production, would mate the engine and transmission together, and install all the accessories (except air cleaner) on the engine, which were all pre-painted black except the carb. They would then put "socks" over the accessories (oil filter, starter, generator, etc.) then paint the entire thing as one unit. Of course once you take the socks off you will see a decent amount of overspray and/or imperfection. I have suggested to people fixing up their cars, with the drivetrain out, to paint their powerplants in this way and was not taken seriously, even after informing them that it's THE factory way to do it.

Likewise, even though the front fenders were baked in black primer, they were only painted on the exterior surfaces, with a large amount of overspray showing on the interior sides of the fenders, blending into the baked on black (except the convertibles which were painted differently). So again, something that looks lazily done for a restoration, but it WAS "lazily" done originally as a perfect and crisp engine bay was not a priority even at that price point.

Edited September 6 by human-potato_hybrid (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

Every OEM has their own ways of doing things.  The KEY is that they did these things and when the cars were new, we tended to overlook them as we might like the car, overall.  Then when it comes time for restoration, we want to "make them better", so all of the orig paint issues are "done as they should have been", according to the owner.  Anything less would be "laziness" or "not acceptable".

 

One example would be emblems which had paint in them.  When the emblem went down its assy line, the paint was sprayed from an angle, it appears, rather than at a 90 degree angle to the emblem.  This means that as the emblem goes done the line, the spray gun starts, and the leading edge of the painted area is usually lighter in coverage than the other end of the emblem.  So drops for that "front edge" of the painted area, but better coverage on the other part of the emblem.  AND the paint is not a heavy coat, but "just for looks" more than anything else.  But it looks good enough (another fine art the OEMs seem to have perfected!) that our eyes perceived it as "all painted".

 

IN the 1960s and 1970s, Most Chrysler cars were big into "scripts" and "letters" on their cars for model and brand names.  Looked good.  Then you start looking closer and it appears that the satin black paint on the castings' edges was brushed on, although some were sprayed and the top levels unmasked.  So you either clean and spray it or seek to duplicate the thick/thin brush marks.

 

I don't know of any OEMs which painted the inner surfaces of exterior sheet metal.  Most body shop painters, when installing such, would "cut-in" the edges of hoods, fenders, and such, as the factory did, just enough for good appearances, as the factory did.

 

In the earlier 1980s, our Mopar club had two members that had "Doctor of WingCarOlogy" degrees.  They were experts on how the 1969 Dodge Charger Daytona and 1970 Plymouth SuperBird cars were built.  Complete with factory build instructions!  The chargers were built and then sent to a conversion company to complete, but the SuperBirds were all painted on the assy line (nosecone hung from "the rafters" of the car's interior, getting the same paint as the rest of the body.  End result, to be correct, the Daytonas had THREE different layers of primer and overspray on their undersides.  The Bird had none.  In the later 1980s, we got a new member from out of state who had had his car restored.  The shop did it to "normal Chevy standards", which meant it was not to Chrysler standards.  He wanted to take the car to Mopar Nats to be judged and get a trophy.  He got with our guys and they showed him where the prior shop had gone wrong.  He followed their instruction, costing over $5K at the time, took the car to the Nats and got the desired award.

 

IF a car goes to an OEM-branded national level show, there are people who judge the car by what it was "end of the assy line", rather than "better".  But when somebody goes to pains to get things correct in the restoration to the OEM "end of the assy line" standard, many normal people perceive "They didn't get what they paid for", due to the little things the factory did that were painstakingly restored.  NOT understanding the realities of the assy line in the process OR the speed at which it moved, so "sloppy" was normal, in many cases.  Yet there was a fine line between "sloppy" and "acceptable".

 

Lots of little things!  Just depends upon which "game" the owner wants to play.  Indoor show shiny or OEM accurate.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[human-potato_hybrid]

1 hour ago, NTX5467 said:

Indoor show shiny or OEM accurate.

 

Cue the endless argument of whether the frame and engine accessories of a car should be painted in cheap semi-gloss lacquer (as original) or high gloss black to make them pop.

 

I am on another forum with dedicated sections to various controversial topics, grouped under "The Never Ending Debate Section". 😂
Well, may as well show a picture. 😅

etc...