1923 Dodge Gearbox questions, and Merry Christmas to all

[Minibago]

Hi Dereck,

I have some spare parts, I will look for a thrust washer tomorrow, if I have one it is yours.

The photos are from my original Dodge Brothers Spare Parts Manual, a very fortunate purchase as the photocopy is very difficult to read.

If you need any other clarifications just ask.

Regarding the driving I am sure you will pick it up easily with practice.

😩😱🤔😃🏆

[cutdown]

Thanks mate. don't be too concerned if you cant find the thrust washer. I can make one.  As for the driving, I am going to have to wait till about March before its roadworthy. Tahnks agin for the diagrams and instructions.  Have saved them in  my computer for reference.  They come out very clearly and can be magnified.

 

Dereck

[Minibago]

Hi Dereck,

No sorry, no spare thrust washers.

Just to confirm the front runs on the cast spigot.

 

And the rear has the single thrust washer.

 

 

Not sure if mild steel is the preferred option however the majority of running will be in top and preventing the movement has to be good.

An oil groove would be helpful to spread the lubricant.

[cutdown]

Thanks Minibago. A great help. I have a vague recollection of seeing something like that in my spares.

[cutdown]

I have been pondering this problem for a while.  The first and second gears are loosing some hardening, so I thought I would take the plunge and order a new one.  Looks like Myers don't list them.  Does that mean they are no longer available.

 

Dereck

 

Ps I had a Norton with  hardening coming of third gear. I was told new one would not last long.   It screamed [ not happy ] until I fitted a new 3rd gear pair [ happy ].

 

 

[nearchoclatetown]

I've never inquired but I doubt you can buy new gears. Call them, they have parts transmissions to take apart. 

[Minibago]

Over the years new gears have been reproduced but are as rare as rocking horse droppings. A gentleman over here in Oz made some but at a higher ratio making first and second much more useable, sadly he is no longer with us. 
I have a box of gearbox spare parts so I will see if I have a good first and second gear spare.
Please note that the main issue (awful noise) is usually with the intermediate gear sliding on the square drive input shaft, both the internal square drive on the gear and the square drive on the shaft wear causing much rattling hence the noise.

Also the gears match themselves to the set so when changing one or two out of any gearbox you have a mismatched wear pattern creating noise.

[Minibago]

Hi Dereck,

I do have some spares so please put up some photos with dimensions and numbers of teeth for the gears you need to make sure I get it right and I will pick the best I have for you.

[cutdown]

Ok Minibago.  leave it with me.  There is also a man 90 km away who has the remains of about 10 Dodge in his farm shed.   There are 2 pairs if teeth about 120 degrees apart on the first lay gear  that have started to go through the hardening. Quite a few more on the second lay gear, but their mates on the main shaft appear to be ok. When it gets cooler this evening I will count all the teeth and take photos.

 

Too hot to think over here at the moment. [ 29 degrees but I guess that's nothing to what you in Oz have to put up with ].  I am doing a tidy up at the moment [ with 2 engines in bits 2 Nortons and too much stuff ] I am running out of room. Engine reconditioner told me I can take the engine down to him any time now. Thought I would slam the second engine back together to save space.

Know about the mating gear problem, That's why I bought new 3rd gear pairs for the Commando. Quiet as a mouse now.

 

Hadn't even thought about the wear in the square drive on the primary gear.

 

BTW I found a thrust washer in my bits and pieces.

 

I spent the last couple of days renewing the 75 meter long water main into our place. It started leaking under our large car parking area so  I relayed it around the outside of the concrete area and along the top of our rock wall beside our driveway. My wife's new Honda was parked over the area and she was complaining about it [ the car ]  leaking. I told her it was probably the air conditioning, but 2 days later, and not being driven, we suspected it wasn't the car.

 

And I thought things happened in threes.  That was the fourth thing that went wrong over the Christmas period

 

All well now.

 

D

 

Ps. You are being too polite talking about rocking horse droppings. Over here we don beat about the bush. iTS rocking horse shit.   Polite is hens teeth.

 

All the best for the new year.

[Minibago]

Hi Dereck,

So just to be clear you are looking for the gears fitted to each end of the idler shaft is that correct?

Good news on the thrust washer. 👍

Plumbing is a pain, I am working on a blocked swimming pool suction pipe.

 

 

 

[cutdown]

So just to be clear you are looking for the gears fitted to each end of the idler shaft is that correct?

 

Hi Minibago. Did you get my PM.  a    No, its the whole lay gear [ its a one piece affair with replaceable outer bearing sleeves ] and the two mating first and second gears which are probably like rockinghosre shite. as you can see from the pictures, they are staring to loose their hardening. Its possible I may have to bite the bullet and reuse them. The car is probably not going to travel that many miles in the future and so long as i stay in top gear most of the time all may be ok.

 

main shaft gears   1st has 31 teeth, 2nd has 23 teeth and the main sliding drive gear at the front has 16 teeth.

 

Layshaft  1st has 13 teeth, 2nd has 23 teeth and the main driven gear has 28 teeth.

 

They are low ratios, 4:1 , 2:1.  my Norton's first gear is 2.56 : 1 in comparison.

 

I am also now concerned about all the bearings in the vehicle. I haven't looked at the clutch throw-out bearing yet.  A mate of mine told me he threw a diff bearing on his 29 Chev and it buggered his crown wheel. He did say that the diff on my car was huge compared to the diff on his Chev.

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by cutdown (see edit history)

[Mattml430]

These just came up I’m not sure if they are the correct ones you need. 
The needle roller should be in this week to and I’ll get them away to you. 
 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dodge-Brothers-1917-1925-transmission-bearings-/125048625473?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

[Mark Gregush]

And for the USofA, same bearings (yes, I have been watching them too); https://www.ebay.com/itm/125048625473?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[cutdown]

Yes. 207 is front bearing, 308 is rear brg and 304 is flywheel spigot brg.   All available in NZ as the [ 6207 2rs, 6308 2rs at $80.00 a pair ] , and[  6304 2rs at $15.50 ea ] double sealed bearings.

Best to get sealed bearings as the originals did not have seals.

[Mattml430]

3 hours ago, cutdown said:

Yes. 207 is front bearing, 308 is rear brg and 304 is flywheel spigot brg.   All available in NZ as the [ 6207 2rs, 6308 2rs at $80.00 a pair ] , and[  6304 2rs at $15.50 ea ] double sealed bearings.

Best to get sealed bearings as the originals did not have seals.

Make sure you take the seal out of the bearing on the oil side of the gearbox. 

[Mark Gregush]

I spent about 10 years working on Ford Model A's, this comes up often on sites that deal with them; people suggesting bearing numbers for double shielded type. Correct about the removing the shield from the side that faces in. Any grease that might be in them isn't going to last long.

[cutdown]

Hi Minibago.  Need to apologize to you here.  I didn't realize the lay gear had removable gears on the ends. On closer inspection this week, I saw they were not replaceable bearing shells, but replaceable gears. The bearing surfaces are part of the cluster.  Never too old to learn eh.

I just have to find some 680 gear oil. It seems I can buy plenty of 20 litre drums of it but not much in the way of 5l drums. My mate with the 27 chevy said he got 5l from an outfit in Whangarei so will check back with him.  Just need to make the main gasket before reassembling but will fill it with oil first to make the job easier.   I had noticed the main shaft when tightened, had 45 thou end float so float so bored out three   30 thou shims and fitted them in front of the oil slinger. I did this because the bearing had worn into the drive yoke, and it was easier than machining a bit off the front of the yoke where it rested against the slinger. Nice and tight now and plenty of clearance from the lay gear etc.